teaching

Hi all.
Who could suggest anything, I would be glad for advice.
I am teaching a class of 12 to 13 year olds, and some of them are so
petulant. I am not a teacher. It is a kind of watching children do
their homework and assisting them. Now some of the boys started
claiming, they need no help from a woman, and insulting things like
that. Wehn they say things like that I am so shocked they actually do
it, my mind is really blank and I don't know how to react pedagogical
(like in the film "you've got mail" when Meg has problems being nasty
to Tom) . I just can't seem to put my foot down and I have to stay in
the programme until mid of July.

Who can give me tips to get some control? I would be really grateful...

"Beth Kevles" wrote in message
...

HI --

What you're looking for is called "classroom management" skills. (You
might be able to google it ...) You need to stare firmly at the
child(ren) in question and say "We do not behave that way here."
And the child stares back and replies. "I do".
Debbie


Separate children as necessary. Remember that YOU are the one in
charge.

First thought-do the kids have any break in their day, or are they going
from school to supervised homework sessions? If they've been in school all
day, and are then going to an afterschool program and expected to sit and be
quiet and do homework, you're asking for classroom management problems. If
the program isn't already structured this way, even giving an hour of
unstructured time to do various activities not-school related may make a
world of difference. I know that parents who have children in after school
programs want their child to get their homework done there, but honestly, 30
minutes of productive homework time will show more benefit than 90 minutes
of homework time with the kids dragging their feet-and your blood pressure
will be much lower in the former.

My favorite book for classroom management and how to talk kids through it is
"Teaching with Love and Logic". It's not a panacea, but it does give you a
lot of dialogues to use. My favorite "I'm available at X time (after the
child is on their time-like, say, during a play period or after school).
I'll be happy to discuss this with you then" whenever a child tries to argue
with you over anything, because this is most often a delaying tactic. It
almost always works, with a few repetitions (the infamous broken record
technique). I'd also suggest "The first days of school" although it's
probably too late to help this year (that one deals mostly with structuring
a group setting and teaching routines early, so they become automatic, which
leads to many fewer management problems).

What may work in the short term, since you're in the short term now, is some
sort of incentive program, preferably an activity incentive (avoid food
rewards like the plague, and if a child is above, oh, age 6 or so, most
non-food tangible reinforcers which are affordable for a group are likely to
be in the range that a child can buy with their allowance and therefore
aren't really desired). These tend to fade out over any long haul, but can
get the kids on task for at least a few weeks, by which time you may have
been able to teach some other routines and skills. Choices of small
reinforcers where everyone has a chance to earn something tend to work
better than a single big reinforcer over the long haul, and a child has to
have the opportunity to work and earn it back if it's lost-otherwise, one
bad day and you're back where you started.

Good luck. Classroom management is the hardest skill to master when
teaching, and it really can't be taught in advance. It's essentially
parenting a group, and like parenting, all the books in the world don't
prepare you for the reality-but once you've faced the reality, the books can
be a useful tool.


--
Donna DeVore Metler
Orff Music Specialist/Kindermusik
Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)

In article .com,
"anna" wrote:

Hi all.
Who could suggest anything, I would be glad for advice.
I am teaching a class of 12 to 13 year olds, and some of them are so
petulant. I am not a teacher. It is a kind of watching children do
their homework and assisting them. Now some of the boys started
claiming, they need no help from a woman, and insulting things like
that. Wehn they say things like that I am so shocked they actually do
it, my mind is really blank and I don't know how to react pedagogical
(like in the film "you've got mail" when Meg has problems being nasty
to Tom) . I just can't seem to put my foot down and I have to stay in
the programme until mid of July.

Who can give me tips to get some control? I would be really grateful...


I have supervised Sunday School classrooms, some of which involves
helping volunteers learn some classroom management skills. There's
really no short version of this! However, one of my favorite books --
one I kept on my shelves and encouraged teachers to borrow and read --
is by the authors of "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids
Will Talk" and "Siblings Without Rivalry." Unfortunately, for the life
of me, I can't pull their names out of my head right now -- OR the name
of the book. And all of my books are currently in boxes. However, that
ought to be enough information to help you find it!

Good luck. You really have to figure out how to NOT let them know they
have shocked you -- it gives them too good a time.

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:25:43 GMT, dragonlady
wrote:

Unfortunately, for the life
of me, I can't pull their names out of my head right now -- OR the name
of the book. And all of my books are currently in boxes. However, that
ought to be enough information to help you find it!

How to Talk So Kids Will Learn by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!

I will try to get hold of the books you suggested!
I think my problem really is to be a bit nasty. Those kids actually
have a break, they even can go home. Problematic is the background:
they are a mixture of foreigners, orphans, children of alcoholics who
beat them etc. For the boys it is most important at the moment to seem
tough, and they are awfully agressive and sexist. I tried to be their
friend, like suggesting half an hour homework and then playing football
outside (which is not what they are supposed to do; they are to work
half an hour and then play games peacefully or interact normally - that
means no beating each other up.) , However, they went in for the
friendship deal: if you are nice to me I am nice to you back...
however, they broke it, because they just can't control themselves or
just don't feel like being friends at times.

Actually the teacher should assist, as I am a learner. One lady does it
really nicely, but she relies on the headmaster: "If you don't stop I
will have you off school!" She admitted that it is quite a hard time,
and as you said, their aim seems to be to make you lose control.

I don't want to scream, and I don't want to scare them with being
dispelled. Some of them really have a hard time at home, but they are
just so asking for yelling at them etc. (Which I am not god at.)

I really will try to read the book.
Its just getting me down I too am of so little help to a kid, who does
his math homework and then comes home and has to face a drunken father,
a family who does not have time to care because they are so busy
staying alive, and probably he hears all kinds of accounts of racism
against his parents at their work. He told me once, he does not see why
he should get good grades, because he does not want to work anyway.

And some of these kids are really, really cute. They just have so
little hopes for good futures. And that is why they fret. And I think I
can understand that. But what does compassion help if they flunk and
don't graduate?
anna

In article ,
toto wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 15:25:43 GMT, dragonlady
wrote:

Unfortunately, for the life
of me, I can't pull their names out of my head right now -- OR the name
of the book. And all of my books are currently in boxes. However, that
ought to be enough information to help you find it!

How to Talk So Kids Will Learn by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish



That's it! Thank you.

Great book for basic classroom managment.

--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

"anna" wrote in message
ps.com...
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH!

I will try to get hold of the books you suggested!
I think my problem really is to be a bit nasty. Those kids actually
have a break, they even can go home. Problematic is the background:
they are a mixture of foreigners, orphans, children of alcoholics who
beat them etc.

These also sound like kids who have trouble trusting people. It probably
will gain time for you to gain their trust.

On another note, I would go with both positive and negative reinforcement.
Kids love systems where you reward them with starts and points and stuff.
And then give them prizes and stuff.

I would definitely go with time-outs or removal from the program for a
period of time, if that is an option (it sounds like it isn't, though).

For the boys it is most important at the moment to seem
tough, and they are awfully agressive and sexist. I tried to be their
friend, like suggesting half an hour homework and then playing football
outside (which is not what they are supposed to do; they are to work
half an hour and then play games peacefully or interact normally - that
means no beating each other up.)

That's the right order. Work first, then play. Never say, you can play for
1/2 hour, but then you have to some in and do your homework. You will never
get them back.

Are you sure no beating each other up is normal? My experience is that 12
and 13 year olds' normal behavior includes play fighting, but no real
injuries. Unfortunately, it tends to go too far with kids in this age group,
however. So one of the tasks is to teach the kids to control themselves.

You might also try calling their parents. That often helps.

Jeff

However, they went in for the
friendship deal: if you are nice to me I am nice to you back...
however, they broke it, because they just can't control themselves or
just don't feel like being friends at times.

Actually the teacher should assist, as I am a learner. One lady does it
really nicely, but she relies on the headmaster: "If you don't stop I
will have you off school!" She admitted that it is quite a hard time,
and as you said, their aim seems to be to make you lose control.

I don't want to scream, and I don't want to scare them with being
dispelled. Some of them really have a hard time at home, but they are
just so asking for yelling at them etc. (Which I am not god at.)

I really will try to read the book.
Its just getting me down I too am of so little help to a kid, who does
his math homework and then comes home and has to face a drunken father,
a family who does not have time to care because they are so busy
staying alive, and probably he hears all kinds of accounts of racism
against his parents at their work. He told me once, he does not see why
he should get good grades, because he does not want to work anyway.

And some of these kids are really, really cute. They just have so
little hopes for good futures. And that is why they fret. And I think I
can understand that. But what does compassion help if they flunk and
don't graduate?
anna

Thanks Jeff,

yes, I think it is normal, you are right.
uh, it's just so hard being a teacher, I never thought it would be like
that.
Never mind, it can also be very rewarding.... at times.

Thank you all for your support!
Best Wishes,
Anna