Ideas sought...

Background: DS2 is turning 1 next week (he is toddling now), and DS1 is 5.

DS1 attends a music lesson after school each week. We drive there, have
afternoon tea (a necessity), go to the 45-min class, and by the time we get
home it's nearly 6pm. The class is a group of 4 kids, involving dancing,
singing, actions, listening activities, learning to read music, and playing
the keyboard. It is great fun and DS1 enjoys it very much. Parental
participation/presence is a requirement.

The problem is that DS2 is a busy little boy who likes wandering around the
room and doing stuff. It does not help that this room seems to be the one
that people put junk in. I bring toys, but DS2 wants to be more active. The
music teacher complained two weeks ago that DS2 was distracting, and I have
been trying all along, but she complained to me again today. Can anyone think
of anything to do, apart from nailing him to the floor?

I don't really have any spare relatives that I can leave him with. Dad lives
in the same suburb as the class but is legally blind and not great with
babies. My ILs live near our home, but I would have to drop him at 2:30 and
pick him up at 6pm, a time that would disrupt their regular routine and is
rather long -- I would feel like I was imposing on them too much.

The teacher's suggestion is for me to play with him in the hallway, but (a)
I'm not sure that the manager would approve and (b) the hall has not one, but
*two* ungated stairwells (the school is above a shop). I'm a bit at a loss.

vent I think my toddler is much less distracting than the other little boy
in the class. He is only 4 and manifestly lacks the concentration to be there
-- goodness knows why he isn't in with the preschoolers! DS2 doesn't talk
over the teacher, jump up and down and jostle the other children when they are
dancing. I make sure he doesn't! /vent

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

On Wed, 24 May 2006 19:47:13 +1000, Chookie
wrote:

Background: DS2 is turning 1 next week (he is toddling now), and DS1 is 5.

DS1 attends a music lesson after school each week. We drive there, have
afternoon tea (a necessity), go to the 45-min class, and by the time we get
home it's nearly 6pm. The class is a group of 4 kids, involving dancing,
singing, actions, listening activities, learning to read music, and playing
the keyboard. It is great fun and DS1 enjoys it very much. Parental
participation/presence is a requirement.

The problem is that DS2 is a busy little boy who likes wandering around the
room and doing stuff. It does not help that this room seems to be the one
that people put junk in. I bring toys, but DS2 wants to be more active. The
music teacher complained two weeks ago that DS2 was distracting, and I have
been trying all along, but she complained to me again today. Can anyone think
of anything to do, apart from nailing him to the floor?

I don't really have any spare relatives that I can leave him with. Dad lives
in the same suburb as the class but is legally blind and not great with
babies. My ILs live near our home, but I would have to drop him at 2:30 and
pick him up at 6pm, a time that would disrupt their regular routine and is
rather long -- I would feel like I was imposing on them too much.

The teacher's suggestion is for me to play with him in the hallway, but (a)
I'm not sure that the manager would approve and (b) the hall has not one, but
*two* ungated stairwells (the school is above a shop). I'm a bit at a loss.

vent I think my toddler is much less distracting than the other little boy
in the class. He is only 4 and manifestly lacks the concentration to be there
-- goodness knows why he isn't in with the preschoolers! DS2 doesn't talk
over the teacher, jump up and down and jostle the other children when they are
dancing. I make sure he doesn't! /vent

Can you enrol DS2 as a student in the music class? :-)

It seems that paying students are allowed to "be distracting".

Apart from that semi-serious suggestion, I have no ideas. Sorry.

Chookie wrote:
Background: DS2 is turning 1 next week (he is toddling now), and DS1 is 5.

DS1 attends a music lesson after school each week. We drive there, have
afternoon tea (a necessity), go to the 45-min class, and by the time we get
home it's nearly 6pm. The class is a group of 4 kids, involving dancing,
singing, actions, listening activities, learning to read music, and playing
the keyboard. It is great fun and DS1 enjoys it very much. Parental
participation/presence is a requirement.

The problem is that DS2 is a busy little boy who likes wandering around the
room and doing stuff. It does not help that this room seems to be the one
that people put junk in. I bring toys, but DS2 wants to be more active. The
music teacher complained two weeks ago that DS2 was distracting, and I have
been trying all along, but she complained to me again today. Can anyone think
of anything to do, apart from nailing him to the floor?

I don't really have any spare relatives that I can leave him with. Dad lives
in the same suburb as the class but is legally blind and not great with
babies. My ILs live near our home, but I would have to drop him at 2:30 and
pick him up at 6pm, a time that would disrupt their regular routine and is
rather long -- I would feel like I was imposing on them too much.

The teacher's suggestion is for me to play with him in the hallway, but (a)
I'm not sure that the manager would approve and (b) the hall has not one, but
*two* ungated stairwells (the school is above a shop). I'm a bit at a loss.

vent I think my toddler is much less distracting than the other little boy
in the class. He is only 4 and manifestly lacks the concentration to be there
-- goodness knows why he isn't in with the preschoolers! DS2 doesn't talk
over the teacher, jump up and down and jostle the other children when they are
dancing. I make sure he doesn't! /vent

I don't know how she can say that parental participation is necessary
and then say that you can take #2 out into the hallway to play with
him. Either your presence is necessary all the time or you could be
nowhere near the place, there really isn't any middle ground there. I
would asking her which one she really wanted and if she was more
interested in having DS1 as a paying student than DS2 as a distraction
you could then take off to a local park.

Cheryl

In article ,
Chookie wrote:
Background: DS2 is turning 1 next week (he is toddling now), and DS1 is 5.

DS1 attends a music lesson after school each week. We drive there, have
afternoon tea (a necessity), go to the 45-min class, and by the time we get
home it's nearly 6pm. The class is a group of 4 kids, involving dancing,
singing, actions, listening activities, learning to read music, and playing
the keyboard. It is great fun and DS1 enjoys it very much. Parental
participation/presence is a requirement.

The problem is that DS2 is a busy little boy who likes wandering around the
room and doing stuff. It does not help that this room seems to be the one
that people put junk in. I bring toys, but DS2 wants to be more active. The
music teacher complained two weeks ago that DS2 was distracting, and I have
been trying all along, but she complained to me again today. Can anyone think
of anything to do, apart from nailing him to the floor?


My first thought was to suggest asking a teen or pre-teen to help -
just to play with DS2 while you are nearby in class, but this is hard
to do in the hallway. When my two attended a similar program there
was a separate playroom for before class, after class, and siblings
(although parents were responsible for supervision). My nieces now
attend the program and occasionally DD has babysat in the playroom
when either my S or BIL couldn't attend to mind the other child. (DD
loves babies and toddlers but she is still a little young in age,
although not maturity, to babysit completely on her own, so this is a
real treat for her.)

Do any of the other parents in the class have younger children as
well? Do you know what arrangements they are making for siblings?
Would it be possible to mention things to the ILs in terms of asking
them to handle some of the weeks? The tricky part is figuring out
what frequency they would appreciate without you imposing on them, but
if you do find something that works, it would at least cover some of
the weeks.

--
Carol

In article , Chookie
says...

Background: DS2 is turning 1 next week (he is toddling now), and DS1 is 5.

DS1 attends a music lesson after school each week. We drive there, have
afternoon tea (a necessity), go to the 45-min class, and by the time we get
home it's nearly 6pm. The class is a group of 4 kids, involving dancing,
singing, actions, listening activities, learning to read music, and playing
the keyboard. It is great fun and DS1 enjoys it very much. Parental
participation/presence is a requirement.

The problem is that DS2 is a busy little boy who likes wandering around the
room and doing stuff. It does not help that this room seems to be the one
that people put junk in. I bring toys, but DS2 wants to be more active. The
music teacher complained two weeks ago that DS2 was distracting, and I have
been trying all along, but she complained to me again today. Can anyone think
of anything to do, apart from nailing him to the floor?

I don't really have any spare relatives that I can leave him with. Dad lives
in the same suburb as the class but is legally blind and not great with
babies. My ILs live near our home, but I would have to drop him at 2:30 and
pick him up at 6pm, a time that would disrupt their regular routine and is
rather long -- I would feel like I was imposing on them too much.

The teacher's suggestion is for me to play with him in the hallway, but (a)
I'm not sure that the manager would approve and (b) the hall has not one, but
*two* ungated stairwells (the school is above a shop). I'm a bit at a loss.

But the teacher is suggesting it - presumably he or she knows more of what the
manager allows than you. At the least, if the manager complains to you, you can
tell him the teacher suggested it.


vent I think my toddler is much less distracting than the other little boy
in the class. He is only 4 and manifestly lacks the concentration to be there
-- goodness knows why he isn't in with the preschoolers! DS2 doesn't talk
over the teacher, jump up and down and jostle the other children when they are
dancing. I make sure he doesn't! /vent


But the four year old is a paying customer, and two 'wrongs' dont' make a right.

Bring a stroller and some toys, take him for walks in the hallway and outside
when the weather is good, letting him out of the stroller much of the time. But
away from the class. And stay on top of him as far as where he is and what he
gets into pretty much every minute.

Really, this one isn't a difficult problem. The real problem is that it is not
exactly relaxing to do what's needed, and you can't watch the older one take the
lesson if you do what's needed, so you haven't been willing. But you can't just
chill and let the baby run around.

Banty


--

In article , Banty says...

In article , Chookie
says...

Background: DS2 is turning 1 next week (he is toddling now), and DS1 is 5.

DS1 attends a music lesson after school each week. We drive there, have
afternoon tea (a necessity), go to the 45-min class, and by the time we get
home it's nearly 6pm. The class is a group of 4 kids, involving dancing,
singing, actions, listening activities, learning to read music, and playing
the keyboard. It is great fun and DS1 enjoys it very much. Parental
participation/presence is a requirement.

The problem is that DS2 is a busy little boy who likes wandering around the
room and doing stuff. It does not help that this room seems to be the one
that people put junk in. I bring toys, but DS2 wants to be more active. The
music teacher complained two weeks ago that DS2 was distracting, and I have
been trying all along, but she complained to me again today. Can anyone think
of anything to do, apart from nailing him to the floor?

I don't really have any spare relatives that I can leave him with. Dad lives
in the same suburb as the class but is legally blind and not great with
babies. My ILs live near our home, but I would have to drop him at 2:30 and
pick him up at 6pm, a time that would disrupt their regular routine and is
rather long -- I would feel like I was imposing on them too much.

The teacher's suggestion is for me to play with him in the hallway, but (a)
I'm not sure that the manager would approve and (b) the hall has not one, but
*two* ungated stairwells (the school is above a shop). I'm a bit at a loss.

But the teacher is suggesting it - presumably he or she knows more of what the
manager allows than you. At the least, if the manager complains to you, you can
tell him the teacher suggested it.


vent I think my toddler is much less distracting than the other little boy
in the class. He is only 4 and manifestly lacks the concentration to be there
-- goodness knows why he isn't in with the preschoolers! DS2 doesn't talk
over the teacher, jump up and down and jostle the other children when they are
dancing. I make sure he doesn't! /vent


But the four year old is a paying customer, and two 'wrongs' dont' make a right.

Bring a stroller and some toys, take him for walks in the hallway and outside
when the weather is good, letting him out of the stroller much of the time. But
away from the class. And stay on top of him as far as where he is and what he
gets into pretty much every minute.

Really, this one isn't a difficult problem. The real problem is that it is not
exactly relaxing to do what's needed, and you can't watch the older one take the
lesson if you do what's needed, so you haven't been willing. But you can't just
chill and let the baby run around.


I missed the part about your participation being needed. Really? Is it? How
have you been doing that and having baby all this time anyway? Is this possibly
a requirement just to make sure they're not a babysitting service, and having to
deal with late pickups? What kind of participation do you need to do?

Possibly, you can discuss with the teacher and he or she will be happy if you're
just nearby.

I think you're unecessarily closing off your options, though. If the teacher
suggests the hallway, you imagine a disapproving manager. You assert your IL's
will be imposed upon if they watch the younger, but so often from what I've seen
IRL this isn't really the case. At any rate, they should want to help out with
predicaments for their grandchildren's sake, no? Can hubby truly not watch the
baby for awhile? Doesn't he at home? "Manager won't approve, imposing, not good
with babies" - I recognize a string of excusifying here. Bringing baby with you
simply is the most convenient option for you and you don't want to give it up.

I've been in classes with my son, like Tae Kwon Do, where youngers are a
problem, and the Master is caught between wanting a better environment for his
classes, and fear of losing patrons in a fairly competitive market. Cub Scouts
youngers presented a similar problem - there, there was more latitude, but kids
would get wilder and screamier as the parents take the opprotunity to sit and
visit.

Chookie - this really is a problem for others. People may smile at you and not
want to anger you, but their teeth is on edge, believe me.

If push comes to shove, you possibly should find a program with a nursery nearby
and conclude that thi isn't working.

Banty


--

Well, as a music teacher who teaches parent participation classes, my policy
is that younger siblings can't attend unless they're young enough to happily
spend the class in a carrier or sling (usually under about 6 months). A 1 yr
old in a class of preschoolers/early school aged kids is a major distraction
and the teacher is almost certainly concerned about liability if the 1 yr
old is injured.

As far as the 4 yr old, is he an enrolled student, or is he a sibling? You
can't really compare a non-enrolled child to an enrolled child, because,
simply, the enrolled child is part of the class and the non-enrolled child
isn't. I wouldn't have a 4 yr old in an instrumental class (and, in fact,
the group keyboard curriculum I'm familiar with is for 5-7 yr olds, with
most teachers not starting children until age 6), but that's the teacher's
call.

As far as younger son, could you find a teenager who would be willing to be
mother's helper (even a mature 12-13 yr old) who could possibly entertain
him in a corner somewhere and possibly keep him a bit more contained? The
other option is to see if there is a family music class designed for parents
to participate with children of multiple ages available. There are several
curriclums for such in the USA, but I don't know about Australia.

--
Donna DeVore Metler
Orff Music Specialist/Kindermusik
Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)

Banty wrote:
In article , Banty says...
SNIP
Chookie - this really is a problem for others. People may smile at you and not
want to anger you, but their teeth is on edge, believe me.

If push comes to shove, you possibly should find a program with a nursery nearby
and conclude that thi isn't working.

I have to agree with Banty here. On 2 occasions, the teacher has told
you that having your younger son in the classroom is distracting and
problematic. Complaining that another child -- who was accepted as a
student in the program -- also causes disruptions doesn't help the
matter. Besides, you have no clue what discussions the teacher has had
with that family.

As I see it, you have several options:

(i) Pull your older son out of the class;

(ii) Find someone else to take your older son to the class -- his
grandparents, a sitter, his father;

(iii) Find someone else to watch your younger child while the older
one is in class;

(iv) Talk to the teacher about whether your participation is really
required and, if it is not, leave and take your younger child elsewhere
during the class (how much are you participating in any event if you're
looking after the little one);

(v) Talk to the other parents in the class about what they have done
with younger sibs -- perhaps you could share a sitter with one of them;

(vi) Bring along a playpen or play yard, if one will fit in the room
without taking up room needed for the class, and have your younger son
remain in there if he can do so quietly. Yes, I know that 1 year-olds
don't like such things and, frankly, I'm not at all fond of them. But
its the only thing that I can think of to safely restrain him;

(vii) And in the future, of course, be sure to check into arrangements
for siblings and the need of a parent to participate before signing up
for classes.

Barbara

"Chookie" wrote in message
...
Background: DS2 is turning 1 next week (he is toddling now), and DS1 is
5.

(...)

I don't really have any spare relatives that I can leave him with. Dad
lives
in the same suburb as the class but is legally blind and not great with
babies. My ILs live near our home, but I would have to drop him at 2:30
and
pick him up at 6pm, a time that would disrupt their regular routine and is
rather long -- I would feel like I was imposing on them too much.

Two things come to mind that haven't been said.

1) Bring dad with you. He might enjoy getting out and being with your son.
This might be enough of a distraction to help stay occupied.
2) Ask your ILs. They might be delighted to get their grandson to themselves
once a week for four hours. Make it clear that you are bringing him to class
and there isn't a problem. They may jump at the chance or say "No Thanks. We
too busy." You have nothing to lose by asking.

Jeff

Chookie wrote:
Background: DS2 is turning 1 next week (he is toddling now), and DS1 is 5.

DS1 attends a music lesson after school each week. We drive there, have
afternoon tea (a necessity), go to the 45-min class, and by the time we get
home it's nearly 6pm. The class is a group of 4 kids, involving dancing,
singing, actions, listening activities, learning to read music, and playing
the keyboard. It is great fun and DS1 enjoys it very much. Parental
participation/presence is a requirement.

The problem is that DS2 is a busy little boy who likes wandering around the
room and doing stuff. It does not help that this room seems to be the one
that people put junk in. I bring toys, but DS2 wants to be more active. The
music teacher complained two weeks ago that DS2 was distracting, and I have
been trying all along, but she complained to me again today. Can anyone think
of anything to do, apart from nailing him to the floor?

I don't really have any spare relatives that I can leave him with. Dad lives
in the same suburb as the class but is legally blind and not great with
babies. My ILs live near our home, but I would have to drop him at 2:30 and
pick him up at 6pm, a time that would disrupt their regular routine and is
rather long -- I would feel like I was imposing on them too much.

The teacher's suggestion is for me to play with him in the hallway, but (a)
I'm not sure that the manager would approve and (b) the hall has not one, but
*two* ungated stairwells (the school is above a shop). I'm a bit at a loss.

vent I think my toddler is much less distracting than the other little boy
in the class. He is only 4 and manifestly lacks the concentration to be there
-- goodness knows why he isn't in with the preschoolers! DS2 doesn't talk
over the teacher, jump up and down and jostle the other children when they are
dancing. I make sure he doesn't! /vent

I hear your frustration, but personally, I still think
it's inappropriate to have a toddler disrupting a class (even
if there's a paying participant who's also being disruptive).
I know well the issues you're having--I've got two older boys
with lots of activities and a now-almost-3yo, so we've been
through lots of times where the older kids' activities aren't
all that appropriate for the younger one. Our struggle is
piano as well, as there is no way the 2yo is going to be still
and quiet during lessons. I bring activities and sit in the
car with her until Dad can spirit her away. I understand you
have limited options. Some suggestions:

1) Look for a local drop-in daycare for the 1yo.
2) Hire a babysitter, either near your home for a
long stretch, or near the class for a short stretch.
3) Bite the bullet and ask the grandparents if they'd be
willing. You never know--they might find it nice time
alone with the small fry.
4) Bring along a "mother's helper" to the class (or see
if one of the other families has an older sib capable
of taking the 1yo somewhere nearby to play).
5) If Dad can't effectively watch the 1yo, can he
effectively manage the parent participation part of
the keyboard lesson?
6) Switch to lessons where parental participation is
not required.
7) Have afternoon tea at home to shorten the time away
from home (or a sitter).
8) Maybe Grandma or Grandpa would enjoy being the
adult participant at the keyboard lesson and you
could have some nice 1-on-1 time with DS2?

Best wishes,
Ericka