What to do next

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:39:32 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
wrote:

: : And drinking is expensive too. Cutting back on alcohol consumption
: : might save you quite a bit.

Hey I know! We could get rid of the dogs, take them to the humane society,
then we could save $35 a month on dog food! Good ideas guys--keep 'em
coming!

Well, you know that *is* an option though not one that I would choose.

You need to list *all* of the things you spend on and come up with
ways to save the money you need for his therapy.

Brainstorming works by listing everything and then finding which
things will work for your family. It doesn't work to not list things
at all because you are precensoring them from the list.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:41:56 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
wrote:

Ahh, yes, I did forget to answer her questions. Forgive me.

Was the problem created by dad leaving?

If it was not *created by* this, it was most certainly added to by it.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure--he may have had these
problems before dad left, but dad can't remember. SS was 6
when dad left. Dad had his own *huge* problems at that
time, many medical problems, had lost his job and was living
with his mother. He had literally nothing when we met--
everything he owned fit in the back seat of my '89 Honda Civic.
So he was a bit focused on himself,

And perhaps still is?

and I guess I was really the only thing he had, and I lived in
Missouri. I had my own set of circumstances that prevented
me from leaving Missouri, so he moved there to live with me
and get back on his feet. I *know* he did not explain this to
his son and daughter at the time--his daughter was 3
(could a 3-year-old even comprehend such a thing?),
and he just didn't want to go into it with his son.

Unfortunately, when you don't *go into it* with them and explain
at least some of it (you don't go into a lot of detail at this age,
but you do talk to them and keep in contact), the kids beleive
it is *their fault* that you left.

I think he was pretty embarassed about the whole thing. And
now he hasn't explained it because, I think, he doesn't
want to reopen that chapter of his life--or perhaps he doesn't
know how to start explaining. Just walk up to the kid and start
telling his life story?

No, but he has to explain minimally that it was NOT his son's
fault that he left nor was it his daughter's fault. Btw, what about
her?

I think family therapy will give him/us an avenue for exploring that.

Yes it should. Note, that it should also give your stepson a way
to explore his resentment against you for taking his dad away
from him which I am sure is there even if he is not expressing it
to you.

He has a hard time showing any weakness to his son, since
one major source of fear in his son's life was his mother was
stability. Where were they going to live? Where would she work?

Ah, daddy was not paying enough in child support to keep the
family going, I take it. Maybe he couldn't, but that too is a source
of the instability.

He doesn't want to give his son any sense that there's any sort
of instability here. And since the medical issues that caused
him to lose his job 6 years ago are still very much with him,
and probably always will be, he's hesitant to discuss them with
his almost-teenage son and introduce another stressor into his
life.

Believe it or not, it is probably more stressful *not* to know.
And the stress you are under comes through to him despite
your denial of it.

Would dad have reappeared into his son's life if mom
hadn't been so incompetent? Well, let's back up. I think
"incompetent" is the wrong word. I think she did the best
she knew how to do. She just didn't want to expend any
effort at it, and she didn't know how to deal with him when
he acted out.

Just like you don't want to spend the money to find him the
therapy he needs, despite the fact that you have more resources
to do so then she did?

So, back to the question. Yes, I'm sure dad would have
"reappeared" as you put it. He's always made it clear to
me that his kids could come and live with us at any time
if they so decided.

But was it clear to the kids? I suspect not.

For the first couple of years that wasn't possible; he had
his own **** to deal with, was even on welfare for a while,
and that's not the sort of environment you move a child *into.*
After we moved to Colorado, we started talking about what
would happen if either/both of the kids suddenly decided
they wanted to come live here. The timetable on the so
was moved up considerably when these problems started
getting more pronounced, and it was obvious that the
environment he was in with his mother was not helping--
she would come right out and tell him that they could never
go anywhere because he would ruin any family vacation, etc.
And they never *did* anything, just sat at home and watched
TV because that's all his mother is interested in doing--that
and shopping.

How do you actually *know* what she is interested in?

So, 2 summers ago (2001), when son and daughter were
here visiting, we decided after observing him with his sister
that we would keep him here to live with us. He didn't even
*ask* his ex, even though she is the custodial parent of
both kids (and still is, technically); he called her and suggested
that his son might be better off here, she put up a token "let
me think about it," then she called back 30 minutes later to
say okay.

IOW, she abandoned him to you, which is another issue that
he has to deal with. Even if he is angry at his mom, you can
bet he still loves her and wanted her to fight for him.

She didn't really have any choice; if she hadn't said ok, we
would have kept him here anyway. (Legally they have
joint custody.) But like I said, she put up only a token fight,
not even a fight, more like a token "moment of consideration."
It was obvious that she didn't really want him anyway, so
it wasn't an issue.

Except to him, perhaps. And where do you get off saying that
you would have kept him without her permission. Frankly, I
think that is pretty arrogant given the circumstances.

Anyway, back to the question. Would he have come back
into his son's life? Yes, he always was--both kids would
come and stay with us for a month in the summer. But
would he have brought his son here to live with him? He
would have offered it, yes. Forced it, no.

As for the sister, she is welcome to come and live with us
also, but not right now. Right now she's a little girl and she
needs her mommy. She **loves** shopping for shoes,
clothes, getting her nails done, all the girlie things her mom
likes doing. But we can certainly envision a time, when she
gets older, where she starts feeling stifled, because her
mother is taking away too much of her independence. We
see changes in her every year, things that tell us she's
starting to turn into her mother and be afraid of everything.
Ever since 9/11, mom has insisted that the daughter is
*terrified of flying.* Nothing could be further from the truth;
in fact she's flying out here by herself for Christmas. It's her
*mother* that's terrified of flying. Afraid of skiing. Afraid to
go swimming in the Gulf. Afraid--and I'm not making this up!!
--to drive from Denver to Salt Lake City over Interstate 70!
So she'll deprive her children of all the things *she* is
irrationally afraid of. **THAT** is the biggest reason her
son lives with us now, and the reason I think her daughter
will eventually decide she's had enough.

If what you say is true, then she may already be damaging
her daughter also and it seems to me that by saying that
you cannot take her now, you may be adding to those issues
as well.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

I hope that you do get whatever help you need for both
children's sake.




--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 21:20:05 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
wrote:


"Noreen Cooper" wrote in message
...
: ColoradoSkiBum wrote:
:
: : I *know* he did not explain this to his son and daughter at the
time--his
: : daughter was 3 (could a 3-year-old even comprehend such a thing?), and
: : he just didn't want to go into it with his son.
:
: Six is definitely old enough to remember an abandonment of this
: proportion. I think it'll go a long way in helping your SS if his father
: has a heart-to-heart about why he left so suddenly and didn't even say
: goodbye or explain why. Family therapy will be a good place for this to
: happen. Young children personalize everything. As Dorothy said, there's
: a good chance your SS feels the abandonment had everything to do with him.
: Certainly, that belief isn't going to be promoting high self esteem.

Yes, you're probably right! I'm not sure if SS exhibited any of these
behaviors in kg--my husband can't remember--but even if he did, the fact
that the downhill slide started when dad left goes a long way in explaining
things. FWIW, I do know that mom and dad split up right after he was born,
then got back together just long enough to have another child, then split up
again, for good this time. So dad was in and out of his life for the first
3 years, then gone but at least still in the neighborhood for 3 years, the
gone for good.

More information. He was abandoned long before six and he knows
that. Emotionally, he had that issue practically from birth.

And he does have **very** low self-esteem--even things he's good
at, he just doesn't believe it, even if you tell him he did a good job,
he can't believe it's true.

Please, please read How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen
So Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. It is important
to build up his self-esteem not by general praise, but by encouraging
him to *see* the good work he has done.

That's why skiing is so important to us. It's something he can
do, that he's good at and he is finally at a point where he *knows*
he's good at it. We've told him enough times, and we're not
making it up, so it's a HUGE confidence booster for him. He
needs to be good at something, and that's it--and that's worth
EVERYTHING.

It may be that skiing *is* that important. So find some other
things you can cut back on then. Stuff that he is *not* involved
in, but that you as an adult can cut out.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

Banty wrote in message ...
In article , chiam margalit
says...

Banty wrote in message
...
In article , ColoradoSkiBum
says...

: Since his family history has to be at least part of the problem, woudln't
family
: counselling be part of the solution?

Yes, I think it is, but only part--and without the individual component I
don't think "family" therapy would go anywhere. That would likely turn into
3 adults talking *at* him.

Newsflash: The necessary family therapy won't necessarily be about him.

Banty

Banty, that was uncalled for. It's apparent you have completely lost
any objectivity about this situation, so maybe it's time for you to
step back from the discussion. You're not adding value at this point,
you're just adding nastiness.

Irony, thy name is USENET.

As I said, you have added NO value to this discussion beyond being
snide. No suggestions, no help, no clarity. Nothing but snide. Your
trademark, I understand, but what VALUE is it? You may not like what I
have to say, but I've been consistantly trying to add value to the
converstion without being snarky. Can you say the same? No, you can't.

So maybe find someplace else, another thread perhaps, where you can
add your own brand of 'ahem' charm.

Marjorie

Banty

Banty wrote in message ...
In article , ColoradoSkiBum
says...

BTW Barbara, I'm still waiting to hear about those overseas vacations that
I've described previously. If you find out where we went, do let me know,
would you? Details would be nice so I can find out if we had fun or not.
--
ColoradoSkiBum


Yet another evasion of the source of your family problem - abandonment. You had
a part in it. Evasion doesn't look good - you really need to deal with this.

No wonder he won't open up to you. You won't deal with it here, it's a pretty
good bet you refuse to deal with it IRL.

Ah, nothing like good old armchair psychiatry to really bring out a
laugh! WHY THE HELL WOULD SHE air her problems publically. She's going
to tell you and everyone else exactly what she's comfortable saying
publically. She isn't going to share every moment of her private life
with you, Banty. I mean, get real! Do YOU share your real intimate
moments with the world on Usenet? I highly doubt it. In fact, you
share pretty much nothing of who you are, what your feelings are, etc.
You do share a lot of advice, some decent, much not, and you do share
a lot of opinions, some worthy, others not, and you do share contempt
for people who don't bow down to you, but feelings? Nope, not much
coming from you. Of course you're one of those Usenet posters from
Lake Wobegon where you child is above average and life is just
perfect, right?

You don't know why this child won't open up to her. You don't know a
damn thing about the situation other than what she's shared, and you
show the empathy of a bull moose towards the situation. Heaven help
your child when he cuts you out, as he will in his adolescence. You
THINK you know all about parenting, but you have one MALE child, and
you know about parenting him. You don't know how to parent daughters,
something I've mentioned previously say about 2000 times, and you
don't know how to parent a child vastly different than your own. And
you don't know how to listen, either. This is a child in crisis, and
what are you doing? Blaming the stepmother, the person who has the
least amount of influence in his life. Blaming the father for a bad
act he did years ago. Hindsight is oh so helpful in therapy...not!
Blame isn't going to help anyone. Getting good help and working
together as a family is going to help, and that you don't get this and
you don't support this is very very sad.

Marjorie

In article , toto says...

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:41:56 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
wrote:

Ahh, yes, I did forget to answer her questions. Forgive me.

Was the problem created by dad leaving?

If it was not *created by* this, it was most certainly added to by it.


I think family therapy will give him/us an avenue for exploring that.

Yes it should. Note, that it should also give your stepson a way
to explore his resentment against you for taking his dad away
from him which I am sure is there even if he is not expressing it
to you.

I've tried the gentler approach (way back in this thread); I've tried the
sledgehammer approach; Toto's trying a gentler but direct approach again.

But you really need to look at this and think about it, CSB. Yes, it's his Dad
who did the leaving and the fundamental responsibility for that is his, but,
once the boy stops blaming himself, you'll need to be ready for the boy's
putting two and two together about your role, too.

You've taken on a lot and by appearances anyway you're doing all you know. But
the next step will probably need work in this family history area, and you're
going to have to remove the blind spot you have concerning his father's having
left and moved far away to be with you. Your appearance on the scene didn't
lead to good for the boy. Not that that's necessarily all your fault, but
that's the truth of it. You'll have to put yourself on the line on this.

Good luck in the family therapy (meant well).

Banty

In article ,
Banty wrote:
In article , ColoradoSkiBum
says...
Obviously you haven't been here in a while, Banty. So you don't know what
season passes cost. Try $319 for an adult *5 mountain* pass, and $129 for a
kid (Vail, BC, Keystone, Breck, and A-Basin all included in that). That's a
pretty cheap winter by anybody's standards.

"By anybody's standards"??!? Who do you know!

It does sound like a good deal for skiing, but it's certainly not cheap
entertainment by my standards! A $10 snow tube and a hill in a public
park followed by hot chocolate in a thermos is cheap winter entertainment
by my standards.

--Robyn

"toto" wrote in message
...
: On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 19:50:03 -0700, "ColoradoSkiBum"
: wrote:
:
: You really missed the whole point there, didn't you? You're purporting
that
: we should *take away* the one thing that he really loves, the only thing
: he's good at. For his own good. That's horse****.
:
: The only thing he is good at?
:
: You don't see your stepson as good at other things?
: Perhaps you could switch to ice skating which is a lot
: less expensive once you get the skates - it can be free
: on park district facilities here and I bet it might be free
: there too.

He's terrified of ice skating. I mean absolutely terrified.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

"Robyn Kozierok" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: Banty wrote:
: In article , ColoradoSkiBum
: says...
: Obviously you haven't been here in a while, Banty. So you don't know
what
: season passes cost. Try $319 for an adult *5 mountain* pass, and $129
for a
: kid (Vail, BC, Keystone, Breck, and A-Basin all included in that).
That's a
: pretty cheap winter by anybody's standards.
:
: "By anybody's standards"??!? Who do you know!
:
: It does sound like a good deal for skiing, but it's certainly not cheap
: entertainment by my standards! A $10 snow tube and a hill in a public
: park followed by hot chocolate in a thermos is cheap winter entertainment
: by my standards.

That's just it, when you consider that's the season pass price, and how
often we go, it comes out to about $10 each per day.
--
ColoradoSkiBum

: But you really need to look at this and think about it, CSB. Yes, it's
his Dad
: who did the leaving and the fundamental responsibility for that is his,
but,
: once the boy stops blaming himself, you'll need to be ready for the boy's
: putting two and two together about your role, too.

I'm sure you're right, but it needs to happen. He has soooo far to go in
admitting this to himself, that it's an issue. He throws up that wall
around himself so he won't get hurt--we see it all the time. If the wall is
up, then everything bounces off, he can't get hurt. No feelings. Block
them all out. He needs to be in a situation/position where he can say to me
and his dad what he *feels* instead of denying all of it.

If anybody here listens to Linkin Park, listen to the lyrics to "Somewhere I
Belong." That song could have been written for him.


: You've taken on a lot and by appearances anyway you're doing all you know.
But
: the next step will probably need work in this family history area, and
you're
: going to have to remove the blind spot you have concerning his father's
having
: left and moved far away to be with you.

Oh, I don't have a blind spot. Trust me.

: Your appearance on the scene didn't
: lead to good for the boy. Not that that's necessarily all your fault,
but
: that's the truth of it. You'll have to put yourself on the line on
this.
:
: Good luck in the family therapy (meant well).

Thank you, I appreciate that.
--
ColoradoSkiBum