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#31
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
In article , bizby40 says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Catherine Woodgold says... Sarah Vaughan ) writes: If this is the case, then those suggestions would be helpful – but if she's actually quite happy just standing and watching, then I think most of these suggestions would have the potential of making things worse, by making her feel as though there's some sort of problem or that she's doing something wrong when she didn't initially feel this way. What? I don't remember seeing any suggestions that involved giving the girl the impression that there is something wrong with her. For example, I suggested inviting another child into the home regularly. I did not suggest telling this girl to play with that child. I think the parents should play with the guest. What?? Playdates are for the parents to play with the visiting child, while their own child stays off and does something else?? What the heck is the point of that? It doesn't make sense from *anyone's* viewpoint. Not the child, not the parents, and especially not the visiting child and his/her parents. Kid ain't props. But in *this* case, the point of the playdate would be to get the OP's child more used to other children. Trying to insist that the children play together might backfire, but if the mom is playing with the other child, her own child is more likely to join in. As a mom who has worked *very* hard on her child's social skills, I can tell you how valuable something like this can be. Look at it from the other child's point of view, and his/her parents. The visiting child is being used as a prop. Why, would you make a playdate with the *parent* to play? And it puts the child at home on the spot, too. A kid of her own age is invited over for *Mommy* to play with. I don't think the emotions felt would be "hey look my Mommy is modelling friendship for me and exposing me to children my age". :-/ A lot of times, Catherine, your advice is either scattershot (this book, that book, this vitamin that vitamin) or just plain whacked. This just seems mean-spirited and unnecessary to me. After reading long rambling top-of-the-head Catherine posts, sometimes it just outs. Sure, folks can read and take what they want, but, jees, we can all brainstorm - I don't think ideas are much good unless there's some real expertise and/or experience or at least a little understanding of human nature behind them. Banty |
#32
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , bizby40 says... But in *this* case, the point of the playdate would be to get the OP's child more used to other children. Trying to insist that the children play together might backfire, but if the mom is playing with the other child, her own child is more likely to join in. As a mom who has worked *very* hard on her child's social skills, I can tell you how valuable something like this can be. Look at it from the other child's point of view, and his/her parents. The visiting child is being used as a prop. Why, would you make a playdate with the *parent* to play? And it puts the child at home on the spot, too. A kid of her own age is invited over for *Mommy* to play with. I don't think the emotions felt would be "hey look my Mommy is modelling friendship for me and exposing me to children my age". :-/ Well, I don't know exactly how Catherine meant it of course, but I don't think it has to be, "Can you bring Suzie over so that she and I can sit there and play?" When DD was younger and very shy, I made sure to keep trying to have friends over. When they were younger, the mom would be there too, and so the mom and I would converse, the kids would play -- maybe with us, maybe with each other, maybe by themselves, but over time, DD would get a bit more comfortable with that child. When she was enough older that the moms wouldn't come, I'd be more likely to invite kids that I thought DD liked or might like, and then I'd have crafts and things for them to do so that they could interact as much or little as they wanted, but they always had things to do. I also gave parties -- those were good because several kids would come, and if DD wasn't playing with them, they had each other. They were small parties of course because I still wanted it to be intimate enough for her to get comfortable with the other kids. The general idea was to get the kids over here so that DD could get to know them one-on-one instead of in the larger group settings at school where she didn't do so well. Bizby |
#33
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"bizby40" wrote in message ... "Banty" wrote in message Look at it from the other child's point of view, and his/her parents. The visiting child is being used as a prop. Why, would you make a playdate with the *parent* to play? And it puts the child at home on the spot, too. A kid of her own age is invited over for *Mommy* to play with. I don't think the emotions felt would be "hey look my Mommy is modelling friendship for me and exposing me to children my age". :-/ Well, I don't know exactly how Catherine meant it of course, but I don't think it has to be, "Can you bring Suzie over so that she and I can sit there and play?" I sure got the same image Banty did, and I have to agree with Banty. The child coming over wants to play with the child, not the mother. You were not doing that, but Catherine was suggesting that. |
#34
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"toypup" wrote in message et... "bizby40" wrote in message ... "Banty" wrote in message Look at it from the other child's point of view, and his/her parents. The visiting child is being used as a prop. Why, would you make a playdate with the *parent* to play? And it puts the child at home on the spot, too. A kid of her own age is invited over for *Mommy* to play with. I don't think the emotions felt would be "hey look my Mommy is modelling friendship for me and exposing me to children my age". :-/ Well, I don't know exactly how Catherine meant it of course, but I don't think it has to be, "Can you bring Suzie over so that she and I can sit there and play?" I sure got the same image Banty did, and I have to agree with Banty. The child coming over wants to play with the child, not the mother. You were not doing that, but Catherine was suggesting that. What she said originally was, "Try to gradually get her used to ONE (or a very few) other child. Arrange to have another child visit in the home frequently -- perhaps a next-door-neighbour, or someone you offer to babysit frequently. Preferably someone not too hyperactive or violent. Expect her to be shy in the presence of this other child for a long time, but eventually to get used to the child and treat him/her more like a member of the family." The part about the parent playing with the other child came later as she tried to clarify that she wasn't just suggesting pushing this other child on the OP's child whether she liked it or not. I'll admit it sounds rather odd out of context, but as one of the things she was suggesting was offering to baby-sit, it makes more sense. If you were baby-sitting a child, you would consider that child's entertainment to be your responsibility. So, on the whole, I really think she is just trying to suggest having one or two kids over frequently enough that the child has time to get used to them slowly. Bizby |
#35
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
In article , bizby40 says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , bizby40 says... But in *this* case, the point of the playdate would be to get the OP's child more used to other children. Trying to insist that the children play together might backfire, but if the mom is playing with the other child, her own child is more likely to join in. As a mom who has worked *very* hard on her child's social skills, I can tell you how valuable something like this can be. Look at it from the other child's point of view, and his/her parents. The visiting child is being used as a prop. Why, would you make a playdate with the *parent* to play? And it puts the child at home on the spot, too. A kid of her own age is invited over for *Mommy* to play with. I don't think the emotions felt would be "hey look my Mommy is modelling friendship for me and exposing me to children my age". :-/ Well, I don't know exactly how Catherine meant it of course, but I don't think it has to be, "Can you bring Suzie over so that she and I can sit there and play?" When DD was younger and very shy, I made sure to keep trying to have friends over. When they were younger, the mom would be there too, and so the mom and I would converse, the kids would play -- maybe with us, maybe with each other, maybe by themselves, but over time, DD would get a bit more comfortable with that child. When she was enough older that the moms wouldn't come, I'd be more likely to invite kids that I thought DD liked or might like, and then I'd have crafts and things for them to do so that they could interact as much or little as they wanted, but they always had things to do. I also gave parties -- those were good because several kids would come, and if DD wasn't playing with them, they had each other. They were small parties of course because I still wanted it to be intimate enough for her to get comfortable with the other kids. The general idea was to get the kids over here so that DD could get to know them one-on-one instead of in the larger group settings at school where she didn't do so well. That sounds more like a regular playdate. I do think there's a danger of overwhelming a child who is "shy" simply because she isn't as social as other kids, with other kids trying to get them not to be shy. It does impart the message of "you're not quite OK; you're supposed to take joy in socializing and often". Although I also think that a lot of the idea behind playdates is to replace the neighborhood cohort of kids that neighborhoods are often lacking. Banty |
#36
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"toypup" wrote:
"bizby40" wrote in message m... "Banty" wrote in message Look at it from the other child's point of view, and his/her parents. The visiting child is being used as a prop. Why, would you make a playdate with the *parent* to play? And it puts the child at home on the spot, too. A kid of her own age is invited over for *Mommy* to play with. I don't think the emotions felt would be "hey look my Mommy is modelling friendship for me and exposing me to children my age". :-/ Well, I don't know exactly how Catherine meant it of course, but I don't think it has to be, "Can you bring Suzie over so that she and I can sit there and play?" I sure got the same image Banty did, and I have to agree with Banty. The child coming over wants to play with the child, not the mother. You were not doing that, but Catherine was suggesting that. I was thinking that if the mom has ONE child who is self-contained, it is likely (IME) that if the mom has one or two other children over which the mom pays a lot of attention to, that would foster jealousy more than anything else. And I think this would be true, actually, whether it was an only child or not, but maybe more with an only child. Two incidents make me think this way. With dd#1, I went to visit a long time friend of mine - we both had one child - hers was a boy. He apparently thought that his mom was paying too much attention to dd#1 (who of course was an adorable curly headed quiet child), and he whammed her over the head with a metal locomotive, which opened up a small cut in her scalp. IIRC, she didn't cry or anything and his mom was really embarrassed, but I wasn't upset. Also, I've got a picture of me sitting with my niece on my lap, and dd#3 is clinging fiercely to my skirt and bawling red-faced. She was NOT happy with me holding another child. At the time, she was the youngest of 3 (an another adorable curly head). I often don't get the first post in a series and have to get it when someone quotes it, and I didn't pay much attention to the beginning of this thread because I thought that the idea of 'breaking' a child of something like shyness was at best an unfortunate choice of words, and was likely to be a recipe for disaster. So I didn't 'get' that it might be another child that you baby sit for. But in any case I think you have to respect the child's feelings . If she doesn't want to socialize, she shouldn't be forced or made to feel that her preferences don't matter. |
#37
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
Catherine Woodgold wrote:
Sarah Vaughan ) writes: If this is the case, then those suggestions would be helpful – but if she's actually quite happy just standing and watching, then I think most of these suggestions would have the potential of making things worse, by making her feel as though there's some sort of problem or that she's doing something wrong when she didn't initially feel this way. What? I don't remember seeing any suggestions that involved giving the girl the impression that there is something wrong with her. Not deliberately, no. However, the basic assumption behind both the OP and many of the replies was that the girl shouldn't be doing things this way and that the goal was for her to start doing them a different way. That's the message the girl's going to pick up. And, if the way she's doing things is the way that's actually comfortable for her, that she's happy with - well, it's not too hard for that to edge into "There's something wrong with me for not wanting to be more sociable." For example, I suggested inviting another child into the home regularly. I did not suggest telling this girl to play with that child. I think the parents should play with the guest. That makes it clearer, but am I the only one who wouldn't have figured that out from reading the post as written? When someone suggests that parents of a child invite another child round, surely the natural assumption is that this is in order for the two children to play together? (On a practical point - if the OP does try your suggestion, he'll need to be sure that the parents of the other child are clear that the purpose of the visit is for her to play with the parent and not the child. Some children have the opposite problem of playing happily with other kids yet feeling shy around adults, so it may not be very fair to let a misunderstanding occur there.) All the best, Sarah -- http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com But how do we _know_ that nobody ever said on their deathbed that they wished they’d spent more time at the office? |
#38
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"toypup" ) writes:
The child coming over wants to play with the child, not the mother. I'm not convinced of that. We don't even know who the child would be. If it's another child similar to the OP's daughter, for example, the child may well prefer to play with the parents. IMO lots of young children, especially around age 2 or 3, prefer to interact with adults than with children. They may ignore other children, or just watch them. If a child is invited over and prefers to play with the parents, that doesn't mean the parents are obligated to play with the child. The guest may have a preference as to who to play with, but the preference of the other person has to be taken into account, too. Having invited someone over, I think reasonable entertainment should be provided, but it doesn't have to come from any particular family member. Besides, if all the people are in the same room, the guest may feel as if he/she is playing "with" the child who lives there, even if there is little or no direct interaction. |
#39
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"Catherine Woodgold" wrote in message ... If a child is invited over and prefers to play with the parents, that doesn't mean the parents are obligated to play with the child. The guest may have a preference as to who to play with, but the preference of the other person has to be taken into account, too. Having invited someone over, I think reasonable entertainment should be provided, but it doesn't have to come from any particular family member. Oh, I thought you said, "I did not suggest telling this girl to play with that child. I think the parents should play with the guest." Besides, if all the people are in the same room, the guest may feel as if he/she is playing "with" the child who lives there, even if there is little or no direct interaction. I'm not so sure that is true, if the child is past the age of parallel play. |
#40
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
Sarah Vaughan ) writes:
That makes it clearer, but am I the only one who wouldn't have figured that out from reading the post as written? When someone suggests that parents of a child invite another child round, surely the natural assumption is that this is in order for the two children to play together? (On a practical point - if the OP does try your suggestion, he'll need to be sure that the parents of the other child are clear that the purpose of the visit is for her to play with the parent and not the child. Some children have the opposite problem of playing happily with other kids yet feeling shy around adults, so it may not be very fair to let a misunderstanding occur there.) The purpose of the visit is for the two children to play together, not for the adult to play with the child. There may also be other purposes, e.g. babysitting. The adult's responsibility is to make sure the guest is entertained one way or another. I think it would be reasonable to tell the parents of the other child that one's own child is shy and might not play together much at first, if it's likely that the parents would feel cheated otherwise. I don't think the parents would be likely to feel cheated in any case. Lots of children are shy. I don't think one has to disclose all details of one's child's personality type just to invite a guest over. If they don't enjoy the visit, they can decline the next time (if their parents let them). One could use some knowledge of personality types when deciding what child to invite in the first place. In some cases, it may be helpful to tell a child to interact with another child: e.g. "Bring out one of your games and show it to the guest." or "Say hello to Suzy." With a very shy child, at least at first I think it's better not to make these requests, and let the shy child just watch or decide how to interact. After some familiarity with the other child, requests that are not too much of a stretch for the shy child may be OK. I think a request to say "hello" when someone arrives may tend to be particularly diffficult for a shy child, for example. They have to get used to behaviours step-by-step; being forced to do very difficult things may make things worse. On each visit, the shy child may watch for a period of time and then begin to interact. |
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