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#61
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"Banty" wrote in message ... Shyness reported in children is usually a tempramental thing. Setting aside the child that's "afraid but wants to", but I do think that's not usually the case - it's a child either introverted by nature and overwhelmed, or a child that simply needs to grow and develop more. It's the *parents'* fears that their little darling won't get along fluidly with other people that's usually the fear involved. And oftentimes because the child has inherited the parent's temprament and they remember people's expectations overwhelming *them*. Why do you have such a low opinion of parents? Why do you think that parents are insensitive to the needs of their children? And why do you want to set aside the child who is "afraid but wants to?" Do you really think they're that rare? Likewise, a child that doesn't socialize probably needs to learn manners and sharing and encouraged to get along fluidly with siblings and neighbors he or she sees often, but a nervous parent will invite ALL the kids in the Kindy class, remembering how it hurt to be on the wrong end of a group of abusive popular girls. Where is this coming from? We've been talking specifically about having one or two kids over to help your child ease into friendships in a less chaotic environment. It's a big leap from that to inviting the whole kindy class over (even one at a time). The likely problem with the OP's child is that she's either not suited or not ready for a big class full of kids running around screaming. I agree. So, not liking that, will make her a lonely maladjusted child? No. But helping to establish one or two friendships might make that big class full of kids a little less scary. My mother was concerned about me, because in those days ('60s) there was a lot of emphasis on popularity and having kids be "well adjusted", and a lot was still to be learned about inherited tempraments. But it was most definitely not [snip] My only real problem was that I am introverted and independant by nature, and was simply not going to turn into Miss Texas 1972 ;-) Okay, so *this* is where all this is coming from. Well I, for one, have no desire to force, push, or even encourage my child to be "popular." That isn't at all what I've been talking about. But - what exactly are they to develop towards? To find a mate and hold a job? Join the PTA? Any two but not all three necessarily? What one does with their life -- whether they choose to get married or have kids, or where they work -- is completely their choice. I just want to do what I can for my kids to make sure that it *is* a choice, and not a lifestyle they've fallen into because they don't know how to cope with the world at large. Bizby |
#62
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
In article , bizby40 says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... Shyness reported in children is usually a tempramental thing. Setting aside the child that's "afraid but wants to", but I do think that's not usually the case - it's a child either introverted by nature and overwhelmed, or a child that simply needs to grow and develop more. It's the *parents'* fears that their little darling won't get along fluidly with other people that's usually the fear involved. And oftentimes because the child has inherited the parent's temprament and they remember people's expectations overwhelming *them*. Why do you have such a low opinion of parents? Why do you think that parents are insensitive to the needs of their children? And why do you want to set aside the child who is "afraid but wants to?" Do you really think they're that rare? Well, I can rather uselessly shoot back "why do you have such a high opinion of parents - why do you think parents are always perfectly tuned in and accepting of their kids"! But I won't. OF COURSE I'm not saying all parents. Indeed, I've pretty much stated that when this happens, it's well-intended. But people do feel social pressure to fit in slot B, and hope their kids will come out being tab B so that they'll have an easier time of it getting into slot B. Not everyone has insight into what's inborn temprament and what needs to be developed. Likewise, a child that doesn't socialize probably needs to learn manners and sharing and encouraged to get along fluidly with siblings and neighbors he or she sees often, but a nervous parent will invite ALL the kids in the Kindy class, remembering how it hurt to be on the wrong end of a group of abusive popular girls. Where is this coming from? We've been talking specifically about having one or two kids over to help your child ease into friendships in a less chaotic environment. It's a big leap from that to inviting the whole kindy class over (even one at a time). And I'm talking about how "shy" kids, who have nothing whatsoever wrong with them, get labelled "shy", so get targetted for all kinds of efforts to un-shy them. How this *specifically* relates to the O.P. is up to interpretation, since he didn't stick around. But there's no rule that we have to only talk about only the O.P. and only what Catherine suggested (especially since a) we read her differently and b) I look to others for more useful input to begin with). The likely problem with the OP's child is that she's either not suited or not ready for a big class full of kids running around screaming. I agree. So, not liking that, will make her a lonely maladjusted child? No. But helping to establish one or two friendships might make that big class full of kids a little less scary. My point is that I'm not sure she needs all that effort. My mother was concerned about me, because in those days ('60s) there was a lot of emphasis on popularity and having kids be "well adjusted", and a lot was still to be learned about inherited tempraments. But it was most definitely not [snip] My only real problem was that I am introverted and independant by nature, and was simply not going to turn into Miss Texas 1972 ;-) Okay, so *this* is where all this is coming from. Well I, for one, have no desire to force, push, or even encourage my child to be "popular." That isn't at all what I've been talking about. Nor did I consider the O.P's case in terms of some requirement to be popular either! I went into some background. That's it. That's all. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. But - what exactly are they to develop towards? To find a mate and hold a job? Join the PTA? Any two but not all three necessarily? What one does with their life -- whether they choose to get married or have kids, or where they work -- is completely their choice. I just want to do what I can for my kids to make sure that it *is* a choice, and not a lifestyle they've fallen into because they don't know how to cope with the world at large. These choices are often made based on what one needs. Indeed, sometimes the biggest hassle is people wanting to ease your way into the "right' choices. Banty |
#63
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in here.
I grew up as a very shy child, and turned into a shy adult. I had a *few* friends at school, but none that I "hung out with" after/away from school. I had friends at my job, people I would talk to, joke around with, etc, but I never spent time with them away from work. When these people moved on from the job (quit, got fired, whatever) I didn't keep in contact with them, nor felt the need to. Now that I'm a SAHM, I only have one person that might be referred to as a friend, who is the wife of an employee of my husband (my husband runs his own construction crew), but I don't feel the need to seek out her company, and many times, I wish she wouldn't keep coming over to my house, because she isn't really what I would consider a friend. I have never minded being shy, and I don't feel the need to have a lot of friends. (I'm not counting my family, of course) At large gatherings I tend to sit by myself and not interact much with everyone there. Friends are what I would consider to be someone who I would trust with intimate details of my life, someone to just sit and talk to, whatever. I don't feel the need for that, because my best friend is my husband. I don't feel like I'm to be pitied for my lack of socializing skills. I don't have a problem being this way. Even in one-on-one situations I find it hard to come up with something to talk about, just for conversations sake. If the other person is an extrovert, we can usually talk without problems, but if they are relying on me to get the ball rolling, then it will just sit there. Anyway... what I'm getting at is that being shy isn't necessarily a "bad" thing. Teach the child some conversational habits, maybe even hold conversations with her yourself, and let the rest happen naturally. She'll either grow out of it (like my twin sister did) or learn to enjoy it (like I did). |
#64
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , bizby40 says... "Banty" wrote in message ... Shyness reported in children is usually a tempramental thing. Setting aside the child that's "afraid but wants to", but I do think that's not usually the case - it's a child either introverted by nature and overwhelmed, or a child that simply needs to grow and develop more. It's the *parents'* fears that their little darling won't get along fluidly with other people that's usually the fear involved. And oftentimes because the child has inherited the parent's temprament and they remember people's expectations overwhelming *them*. Why do you have such a low opinion of parents? Why do you think that parents are insensitive to the needs of their children? And why do you want to set aside the child who is "afraid but wants to?" Do you really think they're that rare? Well, I can rather uselessly shoot back "why do you have such a high opinion of parents - why do you think parents are always perfectly tuned in and accepting of their kids"! I agree. Parents are not always perfectly tuned in and accepting of their kids. Indeed, my mom thinks because she's my mom, she knows me better than I know myself. If she says I feel cold and I say I feel hot, she says I'm wrong, she is the mom and she knows I feel cold. Yes, this actually happened when I was 30+ years old. There is no way to get it in her head how I actually feel about anything, because she is the mom and she knows already. |
#65
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"hedgehog42" wrote in message ups.com... While the size and shape of support system will vary according to personal preference, I think our species is social enough that very few of us would be happy as clams living isolated in the wilderness. (Even the voyageurs returned regularly to civilization!) Yeah. Apparently hermits often go crazy because of lack of company. It's just part of being human. But it also doesn't have to mean heaps of people and parties all the time. Jen |
#66
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"sscreen" wrote in message oups.com... Anyway... what I'm getting at is that being shy isn't necessarily a "bad" thing. Teach the child some conversational habits, maybe even hold conversations with her yourself, and let the rest happen naturally. What you don't seem to get is that there is a difference between shy and introverted. My husband is introverted. He gets along well with most people and isn't intimidated by anybody, but he doesn't feel the need to seek out company. He is, as they explain in Meyers-Briggs, energized by his time alone. Socializing is tiring for him and if he has too many social obligations, he gets very unhappy. I am shy. I am *also* somewhat of an introvert, but I test at the mid-range between introverted and extroverted in the M-B tests. But shyness does not mean "prefers to be alone," shyness involves actually being scared of or intimidated by others. And so shyness *is* necessarily a bad thing -- or at least an unfortunate one for the person involved. A shy child may never grow up to lose all their inhibitions, but they can be taught confidence to some extent through positive interactions. As parents, we can make a mistake either way -- by pushing a shy or introverted child into situations they don't want or aren't ready for, OR by failing to help a child who really wants and needs the help. I would say that if a parent of a young child is worried that their child is unable to make friends, that encouraging a friendship or two is a good thing. If the child doesn't react well, then it's time to re-evaluate. Bizby |
#67
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , bizby40 says... How do I know? He's a teen, he's certainly isn't going to tell adults if he's lonely or not. I do know that my sister (his mom) was worried, so she may have picked up on something. But to be honest, I just can't imagine even the most introverted person being happy with *no* friends and *no* connections to anyone. He does seem to enjoy being with family, and spending time with his cousins. He doesn't hide in his room when we come over. Like I said, I'm hopeful that it will work out -- that some sweet girl will take an interest in him and pull him out of his shell a little bit. I don't think he's doomed to a life alone at this point, but I do think it might have been easier on him if he'd learned some social skills earlier in life. So, no social skills are applied in getting along with his cousins and family?? Sure they are. And he's a sweet guy. He's definitely able to get along with people -- classmates, co-workers, etc. That's why I remain pretty optimistic for him despite his track record so far. There may be a bigger issue here. Apparently to me, it's not that he doesn't have friends - it's that he doesn't have the kind of friend he runs around with outside the home! Is that a good thing or a bad thing really? I'm not sure what you mean here. He rarely sees any cousins or other family, so the vast majority of the time, he's with his parents and younger brother. The two brothers don't really "hang out" much. They tend to fight a lot, so they avoid each other mostly. You didn't describe a withdrawn kid here. Just one not doing the hangin' out teen thang. I brought him up as an example of how kids don't necessarily just "grow out of it." I don't know his situation intimately enough to be able to say with confidence how happy he is, or how much choice he has in the matter of whether or not he does the hangin' out teen thang. I do know that my sister became more worried as he grew, because he was exhibiting some behaviors that seemed to indicate shyness. For example, they would be out and run into a boy from Boy Scouts -- someone he seemed to like well enough at the meetings -- the other boy would say Hi, and my nephew would pretend not to see or hear him, and would turn away. This kind of behavior isn't acceptable. He doesn't have to chat up a storm, but he does need to at least acknowledge the greeting. My sister asked, "Why would he do that?" I understand completely, because even as an adult, I fight the same impulses myself. I won't pretend not to hear someone that has actually said hello, but if I see someone before they see me, I might very well dash down the next aisle. It's hard to explain why, but it's like if I go to the meeting, I'm prepared for the people I see there. If I run into them unexpectedly, I'm not prepared, and it's scary for me. And if you view that as a problem for him, I wonder why it isn't a problem for the family. (Probably it isn't, but still....) If you nonetheless view it as a problem, then perhaps you should be considering how the family can mitigate their habits of only socializing with relatives, and no one with kids their kids' ages. That should help eveyone in your view - right? It's true that the family has rather a rather limited social circle. The are good friends with the family next door, who does have a daughter my nephews age. He had a major crush on her, but she was better friends with his little brother (4 years younger). They also vacation once or twice a year with my sister's best friend from college and her family, which includes 2 boys, the older of which is only a year or two younger than my nephew. They are involved in church. But my nephew is the only one who literally has *no* friends. Not one person he can pick up the phone and call. Maybe that has changed now that he's at college. I hope so. Even introverts sometimes need someone they can ask for a ride, or get an assignment from, or get a hand from to move a couch. Finally, consider that maybe he isn't comfortable telling his family that it will be a sweet *boy* that will take him "out of his shell". Well, he hasn't shown any indication that he's gay, but it doesn't matter either way. All I'm saying is that I'm hopeful that someone out there will put forth the extra effort it requires to get close to him. Bizby |
#68
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"bizby40" wrote in message ... I would say that if a parent of a young child is worried that their child is unable to make friends, that encouraging a friendship or two is a good thing. If the child doesn't react well, then it's time to re-evaluate. I think this advice is what it all boils down to. It's perfect advice. Jen |
#69
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"bizby40" wrote:
"sscreen" wrote in message roups.com... Anyway... what I'm getting at is that being shy isn't necessarily a "bad" thing. Teach the child some conversational habits, maybe even hold conversations with her yourself, and let the rest happen naturally. What you don't seem to get is that there is a difference between shy and introverted. My husband is introverted. He gets along well with My mother always told me that I was shy. I don't think I was. I AM introverted, and am not a touchy-feely type of person at all - I really don't (as a general rule) do the hugging and kissing type thing. That seems to be a hard thing for the opposite type of people to understand BTW. I was NOT intimidated by people. I always felt I was equal or superior to them. I mostly kept quiet about that in public. I actually think that our whole family is introverted (my dad, my mom, and dd#1 - not sure about my grandparents). DD#2 is an extrovert. most people and isn't intimidated by anybody, but he doesn't feel the need to seek out company. He is, as they explain in Meyers-Briggs, energized by his time alone. Socializing is tiring for him and if he has too many social obligations, he gets very unhappy. I am shy. I am *also* somewhat of an introvert, but I test at the mid-range between introverted and extroverted in the M-B tests. But shyness does not mean "prefers to be alone," shyness involves actually being scared of or intimidated by others. And so shyness *is* necessarily a bad thing -- or at least an unfortunate one for the person involved. Given the misuse of the 'shy' label, it is not surprising that people are confused about the issue. I never understood why the wife of one of Bob's squadron mates had to drink in order to socialize. But now I guess I do. A shy child may never grow up to lose all their inhibitions, but they can be taught confidence to some extent through positive interactions. As parents, we can make a mistake either way -- by pushing a shy or introverted child into situations they don't want or aren't ready for, OR by failing to help a child who really wants and needs the help. I would say that if a parent of a young child is worried that their child is unable to make friends, that encouraging a friendship or two is a good thing. If the child doesn't react well, then it's time to re-evaluate. I think that is a good idea, but not all parents are able to be balanced about it. Anything that a parent has themselves had issues with is going to be harder for them to deal with. For instance dd#2 was one who took loses and failures very hard and would cry. When her ds was the same, she wanted very much to train him so that he didn't do that.because she knew how much of a problem it was for her. |
#70
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How to break 4 year old from shyness?
"toypup" ) writes:
If the guest is a classmate of shy child, I see a problem, because she wants to play with shy child, not play by herself or with child's mom. Unless you know all the child's classmates personally, I don't think you can know this. Many young children feel a need for more attention from adults. |
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