Man walks into office and kills ex-girlfriend over child support

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote
in message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote
in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvo ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I
would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years
have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support?
Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and
cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something?
Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents
an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the
hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day
of schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches
and dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing
up memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should
he pay her "child support" for all the years she stole from him
and his child. If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single
parent for 12 years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's
growing and development for herself), she should be not only
willing, but obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for
you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and
never told you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork over
several thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5
years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses
to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your
friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn....
should YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should
be handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was
I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of
back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that.
because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is
ok with you that a father could take his child and run off with the
child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS
an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My
mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away
from my father all those years and deprive me of having him in my
formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always
like him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were
generalizing in your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't
totally disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There
are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone.
I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the
father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity.
IF she is doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the
system doesn't care about anything except the almighty dollar. To
heck with a child's need to have 2 parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but
it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl
anymore. Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any
more important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to the
child support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman should be
able to have a child without informing the father, raise that child for
12 years, then demand 12 years of back child support and ongoing
support? (Barring any sort of abuse, of course) Do you think this is
right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away from
the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice? Now, if
the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and allow him to
get to know his child. I think from that point on out he should pay
child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge a man
back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account without his
knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some have
refused to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

My state treats retroactive CS differently for never married parents
versus married/separated/divorced parents. The court has no authority to
set retroactive CS during a marriage dissolution and can only provide for
the future care and maintenance of a child. But in never married cases
the court has the authority to set past and future CS as well as order
payments for pre-natal, childbirth, and post-natal care of a child.

I know--weird what they expect from unmarried fathers. Fortunately, in our
situation, they only went back 2 years. But the child wasn't born there,
either.

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote
in message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote
in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvo ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I
would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years
have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support?
Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and
cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something?
Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents
an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the
hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day
of schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches
and dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing
up memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should
he pay her "child support" for all the years she stole from him
and his child. If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single
parent for 12 years (while keeping all the wonders of the child's
growing and development for herself), she should be not only
willing, but obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for
you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and
never told you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork over
several thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5
years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses
to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your
friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn....
should YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should
be handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was
I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of
back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that.
because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is
ok with you that a father could take his child and run off with the
child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS
an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My
mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away
from my father all those years and deprive me of having him in my
formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always
like him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were
generalizing in your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't
totally disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There
are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone.
I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the
father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity.
IF she is doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the
system doesn't care about anything except the almighty dollar. To
heck with a child's need to have 2 parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but
it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl
anymore. Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any
more important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to the
child support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman should be
able to have a child without informing the father, raise that child for
12 years, then demand 12 years of back child support and ongoing
support? (Barring any sort of abuse, of course) Do you think this is
right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away from
the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice? Now, if
the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and allow him to
get to know his child. I think from that point on out he should pay
child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge a man
back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account without his
knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some have
refused to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that you
realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/ father in
his/her life. I wish more people understood that money will never
replace a father. Nor can the hole in the father's heart be healed by
telling him "but you get to pay for all the time you missed."

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me and
was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat on a 1 1/2
year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't want a nap. He
had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a month. Then he
quit. He promised month after month to go back but it never happened.
AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door because my husband was
caught on surveillance cameras stealing over 1200.00 for his job.( he
worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore. I gave him an easy choice. He
could forego paying support by just signing him totally over to me. He
refused. He paid child support. He couldn't keep a job,and was
constantly behind on his payments. In over 4 years, he never once tried
to see his son yet would tell me that the name is what's important ( mind
you the child knows nothing about the family name since his father never
saw him) and that he still loves him. I never will understand my
ex-husbands philosophy on all of this. But Alas, I have remarried and Next
month we all go downtown to swear in front of the judge that my husband is
adopting my son. his father finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that our
son is better off having a father who does things with him and takes care
of him. So I guess my story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father stepped
aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to raise your child
with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long to let go. If any child
support arrearages have accrued, will you be signing a letter of
satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like things are
working out well for all of you.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote
in message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin"
wrote in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnv ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I
would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years
have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back
support? Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and
cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something?
Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents
an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of
the hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts
day of schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling
matches and dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other
wonderful growing up memories that dad's and kids share, then
and only then should he pay her "child support" for all the
years she stole from him and his child. If SHE made the
unilateral decision to be a single parent for 12 years (while
keeping all the wonders of the child's growing and development
for herself), she should be not only willing, but obligated, to
pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for
you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and
never told you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork
over several thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of
5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses
to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your
friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn....
should YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should
be handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so
was I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of
back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that.
because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is
ok with you that a father could take his child and run off with
the child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child
support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I
WAS an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her.
My mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me
away from my father all those years and deprive me of having him in
my formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always
like him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were
generalizing in your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't
totally disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There
are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that.
It's "victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child
alone. I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from
the father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves
paternity. IF she is doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!!
But the system doesn't care about anything except the almighty
dollar. To heck with a child's need to have 2 parents--only money
matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but
it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl
anymore. Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any
more important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to
the child support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman
should be able to have a child without informing the father, raise
that child for 12 years, then demand 12 years of back child support
and ongoing support? (Barring any sort of abuse, of course) Do you
think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away from
the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice? Now, if
the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and allow him to
get to know his child. I think from that point on out he should pay
child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge a
man back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account without
his knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some have
refused to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that you
realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/ father
in his/her life. I wish more people understood that money will never
replace a father. Nor can the hole in the father's heart be healed by
telling him "but you get to pay for all the time you missed."

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me and
was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat on a 1
1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't want a nap.
He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a month. Then he
quit. He promised month after month to go back but it never happened.
AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door because my husband was
caught on surveillance cameras stealing over 1200.00 for his job.( he
worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore. I gave him an easy choice. He
could forego paying support by just signing him totally over to me. He
refused. He paid child support. He couldn't keep a job,and was
constantly behind on his payments. In over 4 years, he never once tried
to see his son yet would tell me that the name is what's important ( mind
you the child knows nothing about the family name since his father never
saw him) and that he still loves him. I never will understand my
ex-husbands philosophy on all of this. But Alas, I have remarried and
Next month we all go downtown to swear in front of the judge that my
husband is adopting my son. his father finally.. (after 7 years)
realizes that our son is better off having a father who does things with
him and takes care of him. So I guess my story DOES have a happy ending


I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father stepped
aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to raise your
child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long to let go. If
any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be signing a letter of
satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like things
are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also paying
ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he could be
paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for the adoption..
He opted for the latter.

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin"
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin"
wrote in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcn ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation
like that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I
would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for
a woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years
have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back
support? Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and
cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something?
Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80
cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of
the hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts
day of schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling
matches and dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other
wonderful growing up memories that dad's and kids share, then
and only then should he pay her "child support" for all the
years she stole from him and his child. If SHE made the
unilateral decision to be a single parent for 12 years (while
keeping all the wonders of the child's growing and development
for herself), she should be not only willing, but obligated, to
pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for
you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and
never told you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork
over several thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of
5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or
spouses to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you
gave your friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing your
lawn.... should YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should
be handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so
was I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of
back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that.
because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is
ok with you that a father could take his child and run off with
the child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child
support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years,
I finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I
WAS an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her.
My mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me
away from my father all those years and deprive me of having him
in my formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was
always like him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying
you were generalizing in your post so I retorted doing the same.
I don't totally disagree with you but I don't totally agree
either. There are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that.
It's "victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child
alone. I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child
from the father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves
paternity. IF she is doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE
it!! But the system doesn't care about anything except the almighty
dollar. To heck with a child's need to have 2 parents--only money
matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but
it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl
anymore. Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any
more important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to
the child support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman
should be able to have a child without informing the father, raise
that child for 12 years, then demand 12 years of back child support
and ongoing support? (Barring any sort of abuse, of course) Do you
think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away
from the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice?
Now, if the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and
allow him to get to know his child. I think from that point on out he
should pay child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't even
know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge a
man back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account without
his knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some have
refused to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that you
realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/ father
in his/her life. I wish more people understood that money will never
replace a father. Nor can the hole in the father's heart be healed by
telling him "but you get to pay for all the time you missed."

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me and
was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat on a 1
1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't want a nap.
He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a month. Then
he quit. He promised month after month to go back but it never
happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door because my
husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over 1200.00 for his
job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore. I gave him an easy
choice. He could forego paying support by just signing him totally over
to me. He refused. He paid child support. He couldn't keep a job,and
was constantly behind on his payments. In over 4 years, he never once
tried to see his son yet would tell me that the name is what's important
( mind you the child knows nothing about the family name since his
father never saw him) and that he still loves him. I never will
understand my ex-husbands philosophy on all of this. But Alas, I have
remarried and Next month we all go downtown to swear in front of the
judge that my husband is adopting my son. his father finally.. (after 7
years) realizes that our son is better off having a father who does
things with him and takes care of him. So I guess my story DOES have a
happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father stepped
aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to raise your
child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long to let go. If
any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be signing a letter
of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like things
are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for the
adoption.. He opted for the latter.

As long as he is willing, I don't have any problem with it. Communication
is the key. And, unfortunately, communication is very often made impossible
in today's CS system.
Is your son feeling good about all of this?

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin"
wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin"
wrote in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcn ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation
like that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I
would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for
a woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years
have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back
support? Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and
cared for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something?
Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80
cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of
the hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts
day of schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling
matches and dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other
wonderful growing up memories that dad's and kids share, then
and only then should he pay her "child support" for all the
years she stole from him and his child. If SHE made the
unilateral decision to be a single parent for 12 years (while
keeping all the wonders of the child's growing and development
for herself), she should be not only willing, but obligated, to
pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for
you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and
never told you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork
over several thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of
5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or
spouses to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you
gave your friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing your
lawn.... should YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should
be handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so
was I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of
back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that.
because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is
ok with you that a father could take his child and run off with
the child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child
support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years,
I finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I
WAS an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her.
My mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me
away from my father all those years and deprive me of having him
in my formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was
always like him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying
you were generalizing in your post so I retorted doing the same.
I don't totally disagree with you but I don't totally agree
either. There are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that.
It's "victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child
alone. I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child
from the father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves
paternity. IF she is doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE
it!! But the system doesn't care about anything except the almighty
dollar. To heck with a child's need to have 2 parents--only money
matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but
it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl
anymore. Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any
more important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to
the child support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman
should be able to have a child without informing the father, raise
that child for 12 years, then demand 12 years of back child support
and ongoing support? (Barring any sort of abuse, of course) Do you
think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away
from the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice?
Now, if the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and
allow him to get to know his child. I think from that point on out he
should pay child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't even
know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge a
man back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account without
his knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some have
refused to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

From your experience growing up without your father, I can see that you
realize first hand how important it is for a child to have his/ father
in his/her life. I wish more people understood that money will never
replace a father. Nor can the hole in the father's heart be healed by
telling him "but you get to pay for all the time you missed."

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me and
was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat on a 1
1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't want a nap.
He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a month. Then
he quit. He promised month after month to go back but it never
happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door because my
husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over 1200.00 for his
job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore. I gave him an easy
choice. He could forego paying support by just signing him totally over
to me. He refused. He paid child support. He couldn't keep a job,and
was constantly behind on his payments. In over 4 years, he never once
tried to see his son yet would tell me that the name is what's important
( mind you the child knows nothing about the family name since his
father never saw him) and that he still loves him. I never will
understand my ex-husbands philosophy on all of this. But Alas, I have
remarried and Next month we all go downtown to swear in front of the
judge that my husband is adopting my son. his father finally.. (after 7
years) realizes that our son is better off having a father who does
things with him and takes care of him. So I guess my story DOES have a
happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father stepped
aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to raise your
child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long to let go. If
any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be signing a letter
of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like things
are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for the
adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have you been
required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell out your own CS
obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets you off the hook to
support your child?

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me and
was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat on a 1
1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't want a
nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a month.
Then he quit. He promised month after month to go back but it never
happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door because my
husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over 1200.00 for
his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore. I gave him an
easy choice. He could forego paying support by just signing him
totally over to me. He refused. He paid child support. He couldn't
keep a job,and was constantly behind on his payments. In over 4 years,
he never once tried to see his son yet would tell me that the name is
what's important ( mind you the child knows nothing about the family
name since his father never saw him) and that he still loves him. I
never will understand my ex-husbands philosophy on all of this. But
Alas, I have remarried and Next month we all go downtown to swear in
front of the judge that my husband is adopting my son. his father
finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that our son is better off having a
father who does things with him and takes care of him. So I guess my
story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father stepped
aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to raise your
child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long to let go. If
any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be signing a letter
of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like things
are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for the
adoption.. He opted for the latter.

As long as he is willing, I don't have any problem with it. Communication
is the key. And, unfortunately, communication is very often made
impossible in today's CS system.
Is your son feeling good about all of this?
** he's thrilled. My son knows who his biological father is, he met him
once. After finding my father after 30 years and not in such great health,
I decided to move my son and I from PA to GA. I took my son to see his
biological father before I made the move. I tried to be the better person.
I didn't have to, but I wanted my son to meet his father. To know that *I*
wasn't keeping him from him. I have even told him that as he gets older, if
he wants to see his bio-father, he's more than welcomed to.

** Well, I had to leave my son's father. He was very abusive to me and
was starting on our son. I could handle it, but you don't beat on a 1
1/2 year old because he won't stop crying because he doesn't want a
nap. He had anxiety issues and was being medicated for about a month.
Then he quit. He promised month after month to go back but it never
happened. AFter 3 months State troppers knock on my door because my
husband was caught on surveillance cameras stealing over 1200.00 for
his job.( he worked retail). I couldn't handle anymore. I gave him an
easy choice. He could forego paying support by just signing him
totally over to me. He refused. He paid child support. He couldn't
keep a job,and was constantly behind on his payments. In over 4 years,
he never once tried to see his son yet would tell me that the name is
what's important ( mind you the child knows nothing about the family
name since his father never saw him) and that he still loves him. I
never will understand my ex-husbands philosophy on all of this. But
Alas, I have remarried and Next month we all go downtown to swear in
front of the judge that my husband is adopting my son. his father
finally.. (after 7 years) realizes that our son is better off having a
father who does things with him and takes care of him. So I guess my
story DOES have a happy ending

I'm very glad to hear that a man who had no wish to be a father stepped
aside so that the man who wants to be the father is free to raise your
child with you. It's too bad it took the bio dad so long to let go. If
any child support arrearages have accrued, will you be signing a letter
of satisfaction saying that they are paid in full?

I wish you and your family the very best, April. It sounds like things
are working out well for all of you.
** to tell you the truth, he paid up all his back arrears and is also
paying ofor the adoption. Lawyer's idea and I agree... on one hand he
could be paying the next 9 years of child support or the $1200.00 for the
adoption.. He opted for the latter.

Wait a second. You have a legal CS obligation too. How much have you
been required to pay all along? Why are you so willing to sell out your
own CS obligation? Do you really think accepting $1200 lets you off the
hook to support your child?
** afraid I'm not following what you are saying.

"Gini" wrote in message
newsrpni.5891$Wh4.4885@trndny06...

"John Larkin" wrote
......................
Do you feel that men can have sex with women and just abandon them and
the resulting children? Well, the law doesn't, so be careful. And
don't drive drunk, or rob banks, because that's illegal too.
==
Bad analogies. Very bad. These crimes are illegal for everyone. Only NCPs
are mandated to
to spend a percentage of their income on their children.

Correction: Only NCPs are mandated to hand free money to the woman.

CPs aren't required
to nor
are parents in intact families.

Excellent point!

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin" wrote in
message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvok@4ax. com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that.
(And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never*
behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I would
like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman
to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years have
passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back support? Do
you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father
for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and cared
for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something? Even if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of the
hugs
and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day of
schools,
the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches and
dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing up
memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should he pay
her "child support" for all the years she stole from him and his
child.
If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single parent for 12
years
(while keeping all the wonders of the child's growing and development
for herself), she should be not only willing, but obligated, to pay
the
price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for you
for
5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and never told you
he
was doing it, would you be willing to fork over several thousand
dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5 years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses to
totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your friend a
lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn.... should YOU have to
pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should be
handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so was I.
Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing
the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of back child
support
plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that. because some men have
been
abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some mothers
who have abused their children--does that mean that it is ok with you
that a father could take his child and run off with the child, and 12
years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I WAS an
abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My mother
doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away from my
father all those years and deprive me of having him in my formative
years.
( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always like him even when he
wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were generalizing in your post so
I
retorted doing the same. I don't totally disagree with you but I don't
totally agree either. There are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that. It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child alone. I
do
not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the father
deserves
a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity. IF she is doing
because
of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the system doesn't care about
anything except the almighty dollar. To heck with a child's need to have
2
parents--only money matters.

A M E N !

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"April" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"John Larkin" wrote
in message ...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:56:31 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


"John Larkin"
wrote
in message
news:k58r9314s5d0bpnn6tgndii8k5tmpcnvok @4ax.com...
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:38:32 -0700, "teachrmama"

wrote:


John, think about it. How would you feel in a situation like
that. (And
please don't go all preachy on me and tell me how you would
*never* behave
in such a way as to create such a problem)


I have no idea. I wouldn't get into a situation like that.

How did I know that you were going to say that. So, John, I
would like a
bit of clarification from you. Do you feel that it is ok for a
woman to
conceal from a man the fact that he is a father until 12 years
have passed,
then demand current child support plus 12 years of back
support?
Do you
feel that she is doing right by the child to deny that child a
father for 12
years so she can build herself a nice nest egg?


I'd prefer she didn't, but then if she has fed, housed, and
cared
for
his kid for 12 years, don't you think he owes her something?
Even
if
she collects $84K, that amounts to $7000 a year, about 80 cents
an
hour, not to mention expenses like food and clothing and
medical.

I would say that when the woman can give the man HIS SHARE of
the
hugs and kisses, the first steps and first sords, the firts day
of
schools, the "let's paly ball, Dad's" and wrestling matches and
dancing-on-Daddy's-feets, and all the other wonderful growing up
memories that dad's and kids share, then and only then should he
pay her "child support" for all the years she stole from him and
his child. If SHE made the unilateral decision to be a single
parent for 12 years (while keeping all the wonders of the
child's
growing and development for herself), she should be not only
willing, but obligated, to pay the price herself.

If you gave your friend a lawnmower, and he mowed your lawn for
you for 5 years, but only did it while you were at work, and
never
told you he was doing it, would you be willing to fork over
several thousand dollars when he demanded it at the end of 5
years?

Sorry, but I see too many men who abuse their children or spouses
to totally agree with you. To make my point, if you gave your
friend a lawnmower and he broke it while doing your lawn....
should
YOU have to pay for it?

Oh, I see. Because some men abuse their children, all men should
be
handed the sh*tty end of the stick?
** I'm not saying that. You were making a genaralization and so
was
I. Each case is different.

That doesn't even begin to make sense, April.
Are you attempting to say that a woman who has a child without
informing the man that she is pregnant, then demands 12 years of
back child support plus ongoing support has the RIGHT to do that.
because some men have been abusive?
**Nope, wasn't attempting.

No proof necessary that this particular man might become
abusive--just the woman's unilateral decision? I've known some
mothers who have abused their children--does that mean that it is
ok
with you that a father could take his child and run off with the
child, and 12 years later demand 12 years of back child support?
** My Mother left my father with me when I was 2, After 30 years, I
finally found my father. My mother told me lies all my life. I
WAS
an abused child. Mentally, Physically and Emotionally by her. My
mother doesn't deserve anything. It was her choice to keep me away
from my father all those years and deprive me of having him in my
formative years. ( doesn't matter, come to find out I was always
like
him even when he wasn't around lol) I'm just saying you were
generalizing in your post so I retorted doing the same. I don't
totally disagree with you but I don't totally agree either. There
are exceptions.

But, unfortunately, the current CS law does not recognize that.
It's
"victim mommy" deserves the money becuase she raised the child
alone.
I do not think that a mother who purposely keeps a child from the
father deserves a flipping penny whe she finally proves paternity.
IF
she is doing because of abuse, she needs to PROVE it!! But the
system
doesn't care about anything except the almighty dollar. To heck
with
a child's need to have 2 parents--only money matters.



** Isn't that the way the world is with EVERYTHING? Sad I know, but
it's the truth. Money is the most important thing to most ppl
anymore.
Not values.. and certainly not morals.

So let's get this down to your personal opinion--not that it is any
more
important than mine or any other individual's when it comes to the
child
support system. Do you, personally, think that a woman should be able
to have a child without informing the father, raise that child for 12
years, then demand 12 years of back child support and ongoing support?
(Barring any sort of abuse, of course) Do you think this is right?


**No I don't. As I said it was her choice to keep the father away from
the child not his. Whay should he have to pay for her choice? Now, if
the mother is prepared to allow the father visitation and allow him to
get to know his child. I think from that point on out he should pay
child support. Hard to pay for something you didn't even know you had.

Yes, that's my take on it also. Some places, however, still charge a
man
back to the birth of the child, no matter what. Other places have
recognized the unfairness of using a man as a savings account without
his
knowledge, and limit the amount of time they charge for. Some have
refused to charge any arrearages at all in such situations.

My state treats retroactive CS differently for never married parents
versus
married/separated/divorced parents. The court has no authority to set
retroactive CS during a marriage dissolution and can only provide for the
future care and maintenance of a child. But in never married cases the
court has the authority to set past and future CS as well as order
payments
for pre-natal, childbirth, and post-natal care of a child.

But wait a minute; isn't this discrimination against a child by virtue of
the marital status of the parents? I thought the government people's crusade
is to "protect" ALL children EQUALLY. What's the deal?