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#51
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How to stop the night wakings?
I'm just thinking that odds are you're not very likely to accomplish the goal of having her and you sleep through soundly without different rooms. Unfortunately, based on what I'm hearing, I'd tend to agree, not necessarily because of the disturbance of lack of it when slipping (though it is a factor) because if it's going to be a tough process, then a tough process can become more bearable when there are 2 doors between you and it. When I was finally convinced that DS's night feeds were not needed nutritionally we did the method known an controlled crying, we only were able to stick with it by the fact that the crying was more tolerable when you weren't in the same room as it, we also used a timer and instead of pretending we were trying to sleep, we just switched the light on, sat up in bed and chatted, read etc, whilst watching that timer. I know this method wouldn't work for every child, but I think the key to it working for us was that we stuck to absolutely rigidly. Cheers Anne |
#52
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How to stop the night wakings?
On Mar 14, 7:03*pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
cjra wrote: btw - I don't mean to sound so flippant. I really appreciate all the helpful advice from this thread and I'm processing it to figure out what might and what might not be feasible in our situation. I find, though, that more and more extreme suggestions are offered, getting away from the original problem, and then I'm accused of making excuses when I say those just aren't reasonable in the current situation. As a last resort, maybe, but I don't think we're there yet. * * * * I'm just thinking that odds are you're not very likely to accomplish the goal of having her and you sleep through soundly without different rooms, Possibly true. Maybe we should go straight to that, but I'm unable to convince my DH of that (wonder where DD gets her stubborness from? And he blames me!) and we're willing to try this first. but it sounds like that leaves you with the move the bed scenario, the improve the bed scenario, or the DH suffers on the less comfortable bed scenario. * Honestly I'm all for the last scenario, since I sleep on that very comfy bed every night. We might be able to block off that room with some effort, we'll see when we get to that point which is the best solution. |
#53
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How to stop the night wakings?
"cjra" wrote in message ... I'm trying to figure out how I can still have her in that room, with DH, and sleep. I'm 95% sure that if when she wakes up he lays there and lets her cry with only a hand on her back she will start sleeping through (for the most part) while co-sleeping. I think you could even be in there too. Do not get up with her, do not feed her, do not do more then say "Time to sleep" and lay your hand on her. It is CIO except you are right next to her so considerably gentler. It would also work to plunk her in the crib and do the same thing but the crying would likely be more intense and take more days. I never had luck with laying next to but separate from with my hand on them (i.e. crib next to bed) but it would be worth a shot. -- Nikki, mama to Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Brock 4/06 Ben 4/06 |
#54
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How to stop the night wakings?
On Mar 14, 5:29*pm, Rosalie B. wrote:
Wanting a specific mattress, not wanting white noise, and not being able to sleep where there is talking or the like means problem sleeper to me and cjra also mentioned that her parents laughed hysterically when she complains which means to me that they probably had the same problems with her or at any rate SOME problems. I never suggested otherwise about myself. Yes, I have a problem sleeping. Same as when I was a kid. That's why my parents laugh, they say it's karma. But I wasn't discussing *my* sleep issues. I was discussing my daughter's. As for DH, yeah, he has some specific needs, but he doesn't have a problem sleeping usually. He can wake up and fall back to sleep easily. The mattress is an issue because he has a bad back, and his mattress (which he had shipped to the US from Europe when he moved here) works for him. He claims mine does not. His white noise (or lack thereof) are just his issues. All that said, I'm not sure why any of that matters, except that maybe DD inherited my sleep problems. I don't think this is heavy vs light. *It is what the person has trained themselves to do. *I was a sound sleeper until I had children. Then I had to train myself to wake up and go back to sleep again My dad can sleep like a log, but say one word and he's up in a second. My sister who's an MD is the same way - which is fortunate for her as she often had to take advantage of short intervals for sleep. One brother is also like that. My mom too. No one trained themselves, that's just how they are. I don't know about the rest of my siblings, but I've always had issues with insomnia. Sleep problems are not something I'd choose, and I don't think they're very simple to overcome. My parents treated/trained me sleep-wise the same as my 6 older siblings. I still had problem sleeping as a kid. |
#55
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How to stop the night wakings?
Nikki wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message ... I'm trying to figure out how I can still have her in that room, with DH, and sleep. I'm 95% sure that if when she wakes up he lays there and lets her cry with only a hand on her back she will start sleeping through (for the most part) while co-sleeping. I think you could even be in there too. Do not get up with her, do not feed her, do not do more then say "Time to sleep" and lay your hand on her. It is CIO except you are right next to her so considerably gentler. It would also work to plunk her in the crib and do the same thing but the crying would likely be more intense and take more days. I never had luck with laying next to but separate from with my hand on them (i.e. crib next to bed) but it would be worth a shot. This is effectively what we did with an 18mo, who was coming into our room every night (they had they own room with a bed). It took 2.5 hours for them to get back to sleep, but only one night. There was an adult there the entire time (except when we were swopping over). -- Penny Gaines |
#56
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How to stop the night wakings?
Penny Gaines wrote:
Nikki wrote: "cjra" wrote in message ... I'm trying to figure out how I can still have her in that room, with DH, and sleep. I'm 95% sure that if when she wakes up he lays there and lets her cry with only a hand on her back she will start sleeping through (for the most part) while co-sleeping. I think you could even be in there too. Do not get up with her, do not feed her, do not do more then say "Time to sleep" and lay your hand on her. It is CIO except you are right next to her so considerably gentler. It would also work to plunk her in the crib and do the same thing but the crying would likely be more intense and take more days. I never had luck with laying next to but separate from with my hand on them (i.e. crib next to bed) but it would be worth a shot. This is effectively what we did with an 18mo, who was coming into our room every night (they had they own room with a bed). It took 2.5 hours for them to get back to sleep, but only one night. There was an adult there the entire time (except when we were swopping over). I agree that it's worth trying, but we never had any luck being in the room. That just seemed to encourage the screaming. Even now, if one of mine loses their temper, it is far, far better to walk away and give them some breathing room. They won't get themselves under control if you hang around. Different kids are very different on this front, so it's always worth trying the easy road first, but I don't think it's always the case that having a parent right there is the gentlest thing for the child. Best wishes, Ericka |
#57
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How to stop the night wakings?
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
I agree that it's worth trying, but we never had any luck being in the room. That just seemed to encourage the screaming. Even now, if one of mine loses their temper, it is far, far better to walk away and give them some breathing room. They won't get themselves under control if you hang around. Different kids are very different on this front, so it's always worth trying the easy road first, but I don't think it's always the case that having a parent right there is the gentlest thing for the child. I agree, I think it is more confusing to the child because you are right there. Not picking them up or doing whatever it is they want would just make mine even more madder and they would cry longer. I think it is far better to have them in their own rooms and going to them if the screaming escalates. -- Sue (mom to three girls) |
#58
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How to stop the night wakings?
cjra wrote:
On Mar 14, 5:29*pm, Rosalie B. wrote: Wanting a specific mattress, not wanting white noise, and not being able to sleep where there is talking or the like means problem sleeper to me and cjra also mentioned that her parents laughed hysterically when she complains which means to me that they probably had the same problems with her or at any rate SOME problems. I never suggested otherwise about myself. What I wrote above was in response to "Jamie Clark" wrote: *It sounds to me like she has a family of light sleepers, not problem *sleepers. What I wrote was meant at least partly in jest (there was a g in there which she cut out. Yes, I have a problem sleeping. Same as when I was a kid. That's why my parents laugh, they say it's karma. But I wasn't discussing *my* sleep issues. I was discussing my daughter's. As for DH, yeah, he has some specific needs, but he doesn't have a problem sleeping usually. He can wake up and fall back to sleep easily. The mattress is an issue because he has a bad back, and his mattress (which he had shipped to the US from Europe when he moved here) works for him. He claims mine does not. His white noise (or lack thereof) are just his issues. All that said, I'm not sure why any of that matters, except that maybe DD inherited my sleep problems. I don't think this is heavy vs light. *It is what the person has trained themselves to do. *I was a sound sleeper until I had children. Then I had to train myself to wake up and go back to sleep again My dad can sleep like a log, but say one word and he's up in a second. My sister who's an MD is the same way - which is fortunate for her as she often had to take advantage of short intervals for sleep. One brother is also like that. My mom too. No one trained themselves, that's just how they are. I don't know about the rest of my siblings, but I've always had issues with insomnia. Have you ever heard of someone who did not 'pass' their internship because they had insomnia? Yes they are frequently sleep deprived, but I think anyone who does long shifts at the hospital, MUST learn to take advantage of short sleep intervals. Sleep problems are not something I'd choose, and I don't think they're very simple to overcome. My parents treated/trained me sleep-wise the same as my 6 older siblings. I still had problem sleeping as a kid. I developed my attitude toward sleeping during a long train trip we made when I was about 5 to see my Colorado grandparents. It was too expensive for us to see them very often. I know I was taken when I was about 9 months although I don't remember that trip at all. And we drove out again when I was 10. But the trip(s) (there may have been more than one) in the middle was/were by train. My mother told me that she was absolutely frantic because I would not use the toilet on the train. I don't remember that and it may have been a trip when I was 3. In the trip I remember, my dad was sitting reading some technical journal, and my sister (who was probably about 3) asked him to read her a story. He told her he would do that after he finished his article. So she tried valiantly to stay awake for the story. And she couldn't do it. The lesson I learned from this was that if you try to stay awake, you will go to sleep. I always did this when I was a kid - I tried to stay awake by telling myself stories (in my mind - not out loud). I nearly always fell asleep before I finished the story, and if not, it was at least entertaining. I used my dad's technique later with my own kids - my dd#2 was very active and didn't need or want a nap when her older sister was still needing and taking a nap. So I would tell her that if she lay on the bed quietly for 15 minutes (we had an analog clock for her to watch), that she could then get up and play quietly. And about half the time, she'd go to sleep. If she didn't, she'd get up and play quietly. I also found with myself that the only times I had trouble getting to sleep was when I was anxious or worried about something so that I couldn't keep my mind from circling the track. Like if my son was out at his work I'd find it hard to get to sleep, or if I was in the middle of an argument with someone, or if I had to get up especially early to make it to some work site before 6 am. I'd have a very troubled sleep in those cases because my mind wouldn't stay on the calming things but would keep snapping back to whatever I was worried about. So I also evolved a relaxation system (like they do in yoga) which helped. Sometimes anyway. But I don't blame the environment for making it hard to sleep. I blame myself for not being strong minded enough to will myself to sleep in SPITE of the environment. |
#59
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How to stop the night wakings?
Sue wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message I agree that it's worth trying, but we never had any luck being in the room. That just seemed to encourage the screaming. Even now, if one of mine loses their temper, it is far, far better to walk away and give them some breathing room. They won't get themselves under control if you hang around. Different kids are very different on this front, so it's always worth trying the easy road first, but I don't think it's always the case that having a parent right there is the gentlest thing for the child. I agree, I think it is more confusing to the child because you are right there. Not picking them up or doing whatever it is they want would just make mine even more madder and they would cry longer. I think it is far better to have them in their own rooms and going to them if the screaming escalates. IME, this depends not just on the child, but on their age and the time of night! When I first tried sleep training my son, I used a method of picking him up in order to immediately lower him down again onto the mattress, and repeating this until he fell asleep. This was very quick and effective in getting him to the point where he would fall asleep at bedtime with just a few minutes of patting his back. Then, over the next few weeks, things went downhill and he kept refusing to fall asleep while I patted his back. Eventually I did have to try walking out of the room, because that was the only thing that would work (he was one of the kids who was sent nuts by the moving-further-away-from-the-cot method). Again, quick and effective. Now, I could have just gone to that one straight away and saved myself a few weeks of hassle, but I'm glad I didn't. Doing the easier method first meant that, by the time I moved on to walking out and leaving him in his room, I knew that he had already had a few weeks of being put to bed in his cot and thus knew what it was for and what was meant to happen at this time of night. I knew that although he might not *like* having to go to sleep there, at least he wouldn't be wondering "What the hell's going on?!" the way I felt he would have if I'd gone straight from co-sleeping to leaving him alone in the cot. And it meant I knew that I had already tried everything else and found it didn't work, so I was absolutely clear in my mind that this needed to be done and didn't have any qualms at all about it. I didn't find it awful at all - I knew the alternatives weren't working, and that was that. But the interesting thing (to me) is that all of this was *only* done in order to get him to sleep at bedtime, and, during all this time, I went on taking him into bed whenever he woke up at night. This worked out perfectly well. A few months later I night-weaned him but went on taking him into bed with us whenever he woke up at night and wouldn't settle immediately - I just wasn't up for a lot of middle-of-the-night hassle at that point and was prepared to leave that battle for another time. But, you know what? It never was a battle. As soon as I'd night-weaned him the night wakings dropped markedly, and within a week or two he was sleeping through, without me doing a thing further to make him. And then, when he was about two, he went through a phase of waking up in the middle of the night and coming into our bedroom, whereupon I'd take him back to his room and climb into bed with him and he would fall asleep. He didn't do this every night and within a few weeks had stopped doing it, so it seemed to be just a phase. But having me there settled him down very quickly in the middle of the night, even though he *still* needed us to be out of the room at bedtime for him to get the message that it was time to go to sleep instead of staying up chatting. He had different needs at the different times of night. So, I guess the message is - I agree with Ericka that it's worth trying the gentler methods first, and then be prepared to move on if they aren't working! All the best, Sarah -- http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com "That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell |
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