Tetanus reality and dangers of the tetanus vaccine

Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath wrote:

I'm sure you sincerely are interested and want to increase your
knowledge base

I am assuming you are replying to my question on how a homeopath would
treat tetanus is the symptoms are similar to dozens of other things.

I have never had to treat tetanus in an unvaccinated person because
none of my patients, no one I know, has ever had tetanus. The is a
remedy used prophylactically in some cases,

And what would that be? Is that a homeopathic remedy? If so, please
explain how anything prophylactic fits in with Hahnemann's theory of
homeopathy, where someones symptoms have to be known before a remedy can
be chosen, which means no symptoms, no remedy.

but who knows if they would have gotten tetanus anyway.

I think it is a disease of dirt and filth as said above. Wound care is
the primary preventative.

I worked as an ICU nurse in San Diego at University Hospital and in SD
Children's Hospital, as well as various ICU's & ER's around the city.

Only saw 1 adult in 10 years working in SD, diagnosed with tetanus

How was she diagnosed if tetanus can not be diagnosed?

- a woman transported from Tijuana. She recovered. I NEVER saw one child
admitted or diagnosed with tetanus and EVERY child with a serious
illness in Tijuana was transported to San Diego Childrens. Can't
imagine all those children in Tijuana, many living in poverty, are
vaccinated.

Nice little dance around actually giving a reply.

We have immune systems.

Are you claiming our immune system can cope with tetanus? If so, please
explain how people ever died from tetanus. Were these all people who
just happened to not have an immune system?

REMEMBER there is NO diagnostic test so we don't even know that someone
'has tetanus' if diagnosed with it
Wound care is #!1

Sheri

In message . com, wrote:

There is NO DIAGNOSTIC test for tetanus - they just look at you and
decide because you have a certain set of symptoms that you have
tetanus.
Many things cause similar symptoms - poisonings of many
kinds...............

Oh, dear. Off to a bad start.

Positive diagnosis of tetanus can be made either by culturing
Clostridium Tetani from the wound (about 30% false negatives) or
by antibody testing.

The standard protocol also calls for ruling out meningitis,
rabies, strychnine poisoning, or other diseases with similar
symptoms.

http://health.allrefer.com/health/te...sis-tests.html

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JohnDoe wrote:
Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath wrote:

I'm sure you sincerely are interested and want to increase your
knowledge base

I am assuming you are replying to my question on how a homeopath would
treat tetanus is the symptoms are similar to dozens of other things.

I have never had to treat tetanus in an unvaccinated person because
none of my patients, no one I know, has ever had tetanus. The is a
remedy used prophylactically in some cases,

And what would that be? Is that a homeopathic remedy? If so, please
explain how anything prophylactic fits in with Hahnemann's theory of
homeopathy, where someones symptoms have to be known before a remedy can
be chosen, which means no symptoms, no remedy.

Hahnemann also used homeopathy preventatively in some cases.


but who knows if they would have gotten tetanus anyway.

I think it is a disease of dirt and filth as said above. Wound care is
the primary preventative.

I worked as an ICU nurse in San Diego at University Hospital and in SD
Children's Hospital, as well as various ICU's & ER's around the city.

Only saw 1 adult in 10 years working in SD, diagnosed with tetanus

How was she diagnosed if tetanus can not be diagnosed?

that's what I'm saying - I didn't diagnose her. A physician diagnosed
her We don't know if she had tetanus really now, do we.


- a woman transported from Tijuana. She recovered. I NEVER saw one child
admitted or diagnosed with tetanus and EVERY child with a serious
illness in Tijuana was transported to San Diego Childrens. Can't
imagine all those children in Tijuana, many living in poverty, are
vaccinated.

Nice little dance around actually giving a reply.

And waht would that reply that you demand be.

You can't comment on all the facts that have been posted. You just
divert attention as is typical on these lits.

We have immune systems.

Are you claiming our immune system can cope with tetanus? If so, please
explain how people ever died from tetanus. Were these all people who
just happened to not have an immune system?

You actually think that everyone exposed gets tetanus. Millions NEVER
get symptoms that could be called tetanus with the same exposure.
MILLIONS.


REMEMBER there is NO diagnostic test so we don't even know that someone
'has tetanus' if diagnosed with it
Wound care is #!1

Sheri

JohnDoe wrote:

wrote:

There is NO DIAGNOSTIC test for tetanus - they just look at you and
decide because you have a certain set of symptoms that you have
tetanus.
Many things cause similar symptoms - poisonings of many
kinds...............

That's interesting. If the symptoms look so much alike, how does a
homeopath choose the correct remedy? After all, homeopathy decides what
remedy to use based on symptoms, not based on the presence (or absence)
of the pathogen causing the symptoms. And homeopathy certainly can treat
tetanus, or so we have been told by a poster.

If you put superglue on your teeth and clench your jaw, you could soon
have a symptom of tetanus. Perhaps a 30C tincture of
methyl-2-cyanoacrylate would fix tetanus. Hey, the Vitamin B17 in the
cyano- part might even help any coincident cancer as well, although
the methyl- could cause autism.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
JohnDoe wrote:

wrote:

There is NO DIAGNOSTIC test for tetanus - they just look at you and
decide because you have a certain set of symptoms that you have
tetanus.
Many things cause similar symptoms - poisonings of many
kinds...............

That's interesting. If the symptoms look so much alike, how does a
homeopath choose the correct remedy? After all, homeopathy decides what
remedy to use based on symptoms, not based on the presence (or absence)
of the pathogen causing the symptoms. And homeopathy certainly can treat
tetanus, or so we have been told by a poster.

If you put superglue on your teeth and clench your jaw, you could soon
have a symptom of tetanus. Perhaps a 30C tincture of
methyl-2-cyanoacrylate would fix tetanus. Hey, the Vitamin B17 in the
cyano- part might even help any coincident cancer as well, although
the methyl- could cause autism.

Wow! You must have a PhD in chemistry, just like Vernon!
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

wrote:

There is NO DIAGNOSTIC test for tetanus

D. C. Sessions wrote:
Positive diagnosis of tetanus can be made either by culturing
Clostridium Tetani from the wound (about 30% false negatives) or
by antibody testing.

The standard protocol also calls for ruling out meningitis,
rabies, strychnine poisoning, or other diseases with similar
symptoms.

http://health.allrefer.com/health/te...sis-tests.html

http://www.cdc.gov/niP/publications/pink/tetanus.pdf
There are no laboratory findings characteristic of tetanus. The
diagnosis is entirely clinical and does not depend upon. bacteriologic
confirmation.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5203a1.htm

"Surveillance for tetanus has some limitations. Because NO CONFIRMATORY
LABTTEST exists, the diagnosis is made on clinical grounds and with the
exclusion of other possible causes of illness. Anaerobic cultures of
tissues or aspirates YIELD C. tetani among ONLY A MINORITY of tetanus
patients (34,35). CDC relies on passive reporting of cases by
physicians to state and local health departments, and no recent
evaluation of the completeness of tetanus case reporting to CDC has
been performed."

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1234055
"The conventional diagnostic assays to detect clostridial neurotoxins
involve the use of mouse bioassays. These tests, although of high
sensitivity, are slow, labor-intensive, and require the use of live
experimental animals. In vitro assays, including enzyme-linked
immunosorbent and functional tests for the detection of the
zinc-dependent peptidase activity of the BoNT (but not for TeNT), have
been described as alternatives to the animal assays (15, 26, 27, 34),
although the sensitivity of these assays is lower than that for the
mouse bioassay. Recent data have shown that the BoNTA, -B, -C, -D, -E,
and -F can be unequivocally identified by matrix-assisted laser
desorption ionization and electrospray mass spectrometry (30, 31).
However, the improved immunoassays, functional in vitro assays, and
mass spectrometric approaches have yet to be proven as alternatives to
mouse bioassays for the detection of these toxins in complex matrices
such as serum, feces, wound tissue, and food."

http://www.jabfm.org/cgi/reprint/14/3/223.pdf
There is no laboratory finding characteristic of tetanus. The diagnosis
is entirely clinical and does
not depend on bacteriologic confirmation.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl..._5/ai_97185455
The absence of C. tetani from suspicious wounds does not exclude the
diagnosis, and microbiological confirmation of C. tetani is rare (14%
of reported cases in the last 17 years; CDSC, unpublished data).

http://www.hit.org.uk/dbimgs/Tetanus...ormat ion.doc
so far no microbiological confirmation of tetanus is available.

"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:

There is NO DIAGNOSTIC test for tetanus

D. C. Sessions wrote:
Positive diagnosis of tetanus can be made either by culturing
Clostridium Tetani from the wound (about 30% false negatives) or
by antibody testing.

The standard protocol also calls for ruling out meningitis,
rabies, strychnine poisoning, or other diseases with similar
symptoms.

http://health.allrefer.com/health/te...sis-tests.html

http://www.cdc.gov/niP/publications/pink/tetanus.pdf
There are no laboratory findings characteristic of tetanus. The
diagnosis is entirely clinical and does not depend upon. bacteriologic
confirmation.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5203a1.htm

"Surveillance for tetanus has some limitations. Because NO CONFIRMATORY
LABTTEST exists, the diagnosis is made on clinical grounds and with the
exclusion of other possible causes of illness. Anaerobic cultures of
tissues or aspirates YIELD C. tetani among ONLY A MINORITY of tetanus
patients (34,35). CDC relies on passive reporting of cases by
physicians to state and local health departments, and no recent
evaluation of the completeness of tetanus case reporting to CDC has
been performed."

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=1234055
"The conventional diagnostic assays to detect clostridial neurotoxins
involve the use of mouse bioassays. These tests, although of high
sensitivity, are slow, labor-intensive, and require the use of live
experimental animals. In vitro assays, including enzyme-linked
immunosorbent and functional tests for the detection of the
zinc-dependent peptidase activity of the BoNT (but not for TeNT), have
been described as alternatives to the animal assays (15, 26, 27, 34),
although the sensitivity of these assays is lower than that for the
mouse bioassay. Recent data have shown that the BoNTA, -B, -C, -D, -E,
and -F can be unequivocally identified by matrix-assisted laser
desorption ionization and electrospray mass spectrometry (30, 31).
However, the improved immunoassays, functional in vitro assays, and
mass spectrometric approaches have yet to be proven as alternatives to
mouse bioassays for the detection of these toxins in complex matrices
such as serum, feces, wound tissue, and food."

http://www.jabfm.org/cgi/reprint/14/3/223.pdf
There is no laboratory finding characteristic of tetanus. The diagnosis
is entirely clinical and does
not depend on bacteriologic confirmation.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl..._5/ai_97185455
The absence of C. tetani from suspicious wounds does not exclude the
diagnosis, and microbiological confirmation of C. tetani is rare (14%
of reported cases in the last 17 years; CDSC, unpublished data).

http://www.hit.org.uk/dbimgs/Tetanus...ormat ion.doc
so far no microbiological confirmation of tetanus is available.


So what. Tetanus is diagnosed clinically. It IS rare, because most people
get vaccinated.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

http://www.hit.org.uk/dbimgs/Tetanus...ormat ion.doc
so far no microbiological confirmation of tetanus is available.


So what. Tetanus is diagnosed clinically. It IS rare, because most people
get vaccinated.

Can you document that?
In teens, young adults, middle aged adults, elderly, drug addicts

I haven't had a vaccine in 25 years. I work in the garden, am around
my friends horses (which she doesn't vaccinate, nor does she get
vaccines). I hike and get wounds, I walk barefoot. No one I know gets
a vaccine for anything, let alone tetanus. My parents haven't for 25
years either, other than flu vax, which I taught them about and they
stopped 10 years ago.

So let's see some stats about people getting the tetanus vax every 10
years and proof of immunity from that vaccine

Sheri

Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath wrote:
http://www.hit.org.uk/dbimgs/Tetanus...ormat ion.doc
so far no microbiological confirmation of tetanus is available.


So what. Tetanus is diagnosed clinically. It IS rare, because most people
get vaccinated.

Can you document that?
In teens, young adults, middle aged adults, elderly, drug addicts

I haven't had a vaccine in 25 years. I work in the garden, am around
my friends horses (which she doesn't vaccinate, nor does she get
vaccines). I hike and get wounds, I walk barefoot. No one I know gets
a vaccine for anything, let alone tetanus. My parents haven't for 25
years either, other than flu vax, which I taught them about and they
stopped 10 years ago.

So let's see some stats about people getting the tetanus vax every 10
years and proof of immunity from that vaccine

Sheri

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/...urnalcode=nejm

or

http://tinyurl.com/sbyrt

--Rich

In article . com,
wrote:
Magnesium as first line therapy in the management of tetanus: a
prospective study of 40 patients.

Anaesthesia 2002 Aug;57(8):778-817 Attygalle D, Rodrigo N.

A prospective observational study was conducted to examine the efficacy
and safety of magnesium sulphate for con*trol of spasms and autonomic
dysfunc*tion in 40 patients with tetanus. Magnesium was infused
intravenously, aiming to control spasms despite sup*pression of
patellar reflex or respirato*ry insufficiency. Spasms were
con*trolled in 38 of the 40 patients within a serum Mg2+ range of 2-4
mmol.l-1 with only two patients needing addi*tional neuromuscular
blocking drugs. Seventeen of 24 patients ( 60 years) and six of 16
patients (./=60 years) did not require ventilatory support. Thirty-six
patients were conscious and co-operative throughout their manage*ment.
Sympathetic over-activity was controlled without supplementary
sedation. Overall mortality was 12%; all five deaths were in patients
/= 60 years and no deaths were due to auto-nomic dysfunction. We
recommend magnesium as possible first line thera*py in the routine
management of tetanus.

Gee, 12% mortality. That's pretty high. But I guess it's OK with you
to sacrifice a few people as long as they aren't vaccinated.

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." -- Ben Franklin

(Since you seem to revere sources in proportion to how old they are.)

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"George Bush is a gruesome boob." -- Bill Maher