are all people against CO verbally abusive?

I was just lurking here and couldn't believe how insulting and abusive
the side arguing against spanking are. Is that how they discipline
their children sue to their fanaticism against CO?

My sister who was a social worker (now works for children's court as an
attorney and is against CO) mentioned to me once how verbal abuse can be
far worse.

regards,
Ben

--
Cheap long distance calling using Onesuite (http://www.onesuite.com).
2.5 cents/min anywhere in the U.S., to Canada or the U.K. No monthly or
connection fees! Use promotional code 038664643 for 20 free minutes.

Hi, Ben, that's Kane, aka Cain.

I guess he's concerned that we are making families aware of their rights and
responsibilities when CPS comes to call.

You do not really help your family if you let them in.

We are starting to feel the backlash from the Nanny state, and it often is not
pretty nor helpful, in the long run--Nanny state, that is.


http://www.familyrightsassociation.com

Don't let cw in the door. Find local, friendly support instead.


Ben confirms:

Subject: are all people against CO verbally abusive?
From: Ben
Date: 1/13/2004 12:33 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I was just lurking here and couldn't believe how insulting and abusive
the side arguing against spanking are. Is that how they discipline
their children sue to their fanaticism against CO?

My sister who was a social worker (now works for children's court as an
attorney and is against CO) mentioned to me once how verbal abuse can be
far worse.

regards,
Ben

--
Cheap long distance calling using Onesuite (http://www.onesuite.com).
2.5 cents/min anywhere in the U.S., to Canada or the U.K. No monthly or
connection fees! Use promotional code 038664643 for 20 free minutes.

I too am new to this listserv. I have found the vigor that pejoratives
get used to be distracting, very distracting, but I can ignore the
inflammatory remarks. I am looking for substantive discussion from
spankers and anti-spankers, CPS and non-CPS, liberal and conservative,
and as intelligent as it can be. I am not in agreement with total
control over a child's life when a parent crosses certain boundaries.
The beginning of CPS evolved around the extreme treatment of children,
an admirable act of human kindness to spare those children from the
perpetual harm their lives contained. However, the evolution of CPS, I
believe, have driven them to overstep the "legal" boundaries of citizens
caught up in social planning and control over families. I am not a
conservative in general, nor liberal. I see pros and cons of both
sides. This is not an issue on that, but an issue of fundamental freedom
that the state has no right to subdue.

sorry, I meant to say "except when a parent crosses certain boundaries"

Bryan,

If you think the swearing and insults are bad recently,
you should study Kane's "blue period".

After much pondering I still have the same gut
feeling as I did early on from Kane, that he
was a kid with Oppositional Defiant Disorder
and instead of straightening out when spanked,
he is trapped in a world of catharsis.

His "Commander McBrag" period was interesting, too.

Usually a sign of some insecurities.

There are some people who are against
spanking, by their choice. They are not
quite the same as the zealot FEW who keep
trying to speak ""FOR THEM"". They would
not be as quick as the zealots to IMPOSE
their belief upon parents using LAWS.

It's easy to imagine the resentment such
people must feel about people like Kane
trying to speak ""FOR THEM"" all the time.

That dynamic recurs in various groups.
The fanatics seem to run the show.
National Organization for Women actually
had to quietly purge Lesbians from their
leadership spots in the late 80's when
they started pushing Lesbian issues more
than issues representing the rank and file.

Rational discussions about statistics and
research results don't flourish amid the
name calling and swearing, but plod along.

Greg speculates:

After much pondering I still have the same gut
feeling as I did early on from Kane, that he
was a kid with Oppositional Defiant Disorder
and instead of straightening out when spanked,
he is trapped in a world of catharsis.

Interesting. He also said his Mom put him in FC and his Dad bailed him out.

His sexual harassment of me is noted, and his use of the c*** word.

It's in the archives.

And no one on this NG, AFAIK, supports extreme punishment for children.

Greg,

You are so much to the point. Most parents that I know do not want
children abused. The headlines of the girls in Baltimore and the case
in New Jersey get the media and the press. CPS failed to protect these
kids. But what most parents have a problem with, and this includes
conservatives, liberals (of which I am primarily in tune with),
socialist, libertarians, from all backgrounds, is that they have no
issue if a parent spanks their child, they have issues with CPS
involvement in it. There also exists issues involving the increasing
number of divorces that use the CPS to make claims against the former
spouse to be, especially false claims of child sexual abuse, to gain an
advantage in court. By implementing standards of due process in their
investigations and actions, CPS would not be allowed to pursue their
personal social engineering practices.

This could be a great newsgroup, if the fanatics, as you describe them,
would come off their lofty clouds of disdain for people and parents and
engage in full meaning and substantive argument. Thanks for your input.
Bryan

On 15 Jan 2004 03:25:15 -0800, (Greg Hanson)
wrote:

Bryan,

If you think the swearing and insults are bad recently,
you should study Kane's "blue period".

Looking for more, Whore?

After much pondering

Translation: "Sitting here in someone else's house but on my couch I
bought with the proceeds of can and bottle refunding while pretending
to part of a family that I've disrupted I came up with the following
babble:"

I still have the same gut
feeling as I did early on from Kane, that he
was a kid with Oppositional Defiant Disorder

Nope. I was a very pleasant little kid. Busy playing and learning.

and instead of straightening out when spanked,

On what grounds to presume I was spanked, or wasn't? Did you chat with
those people that parented me? I'll have to have a word with them.

Please give me the number to the psychic hotline you used. Thanks.

he is trapped in a world of catharsis.

Oooo...how very intellectual and psychological you sound.

His "Commander McBrag" period was interesting, too.

Yep. Have had a life so interesting that I've had pressure from a
publisher to write about it. I've thought about it, but I tend to take
so much of it for granted writing about it doesn't appeal all that
much. Retrospectives of my life bore me. I have waaaay too much fun
while it's happening to be worried about the past...other than to
share it with you deserving folks when appropriate.

I have no stories of displacing little children by inappropriate
treatment of them though, and taking over their space and the
attentions of their mother while living off her.

Could you tell us more of YOURS, Greegor. Up until now your story has
far surpassed mine for human interest....R R R R

My apologies to the little girl for laughing at what to her must have
been very painful. It's YOU I'm laughing at, not her or her
predicament.

Usually a sign of some insecurities.

Funny. I work for a living. I take money from no one else...though my
wife does okay and will spot me to a dinner now and then, if I behave
myself...R R R R R

The fun things I've done, and the scary ones too, seem a world removed
from your reclusive hovel living, with your **** shattered all about
you, and stuffed into the room of the little girl....who is now gone
by your good offices.

There are some people who are against
spanking, by their choice.

Yep.

They are not
quite the same as the zealot FEW who keep
trying to speak ""FOR THEM"".

Pointing out they chose not to is speaking for them? How so.

Please show how I have, or anyone else on the non-cp side of this
debate, have attempted to speak for anyone else. If I mention
non-spankers at all I usually post citations and point to their own
statements accessible with touch of the keyboard...unlike you lying
twits that have to have ANY valid citation ripped out of you with
months of effort.

http://sandradodd.com/spanking

How many times have I posted this and similar URL's Greegor....that
did NOT attempt to speak for others but simply bring others to the
attention of readers here?

They would
not be as quick as the zealots to IMPOSE
their belief upon parents using LAWS.

Actually I've run into some pretty ****ed parents that DON'T beat
their children in the name of discipline that would like to put your
asses in pillory for a few weeks.

I tend to be the one to talk them down to more calmness.

It's easy to imagine the resentment such
people must feel about people like Kane
trying to speak ""FOR THEM"" all the time.

I have had ONE claim to be such a person in all the time I've posted
here...and that was so obviously a troll as to be laughable. It posted
twice and never came back.

That dynamic recurs in various groups.

Show us the proof of that claim.

The fanatics seem to run the show.

Those who care? As opposed to those that want the right to abuse
children untrammeled?

I guess you have to call me a fanatic then.

National Organization for Women actually
had to quietly purge Lesbians from their
leadership spots in the late 80's

Quietly? R R R R. How is it I know about it if it was so quiet?

You are a card, Whore.

when
they started pushing Lesbian issues more
than issues representing the rank and file.

It was a huge noisy open debate reported by the media. Why do you lie?

I guess these were secret news releases meant to not get to the
public:

http://www.womensenews.org/article.c.../context/cover

The biggest lie about the feminist movement is that it is monolithic.
Feminists are as contentious between themselves as any large body of
political interest groups. They can't agree on much of anything...but
that they aren't going to take it lying down any more.

Kinda ****es off the ol' boys, now doesn't it?

Funny, the more power and notice the feminists have gained the better
off I've been. Male female friendships are easier...if not more
conflicted (I don't find "conflict" as burden or to be feared). My
relationship with women is richer. And I started getting laid
more....R R R R R...as well. Don't tell my wife I told you
that....hehehe. Ah, the sixties.

Rational discussions about statistics and
research results don't flourish amid the
name calling and swearing, but plod along.

"Rational discussions" by the liars like you don't flourish. They
founder on the lies. The name calling and swearing keeps things
lively. In fact I've seen moderated groups whither and die for lack of
spice and envictive.

You are full of ****. Eat some Prunes. It'll do yah good.

And get out there and work on your Refunding Empire. We can hardly
wait for when you buy a new car...Hey, I just drove home my new 4x4
rig yesterday. Almost too pretty to drive.

You wouldn't believe how long I had to collect bottles and cans to buy
it, cash. R R R R

I've got a real nice car for sale now. My old 89 Chevy Blazer, two
door, 4x4, goes great in the snow and mud (opps! strike that "mud"
comment...honest never when off roading fingers crossed behind
back).

Decent mileage. Clean...well, there is a tiny crack in the grill from
that deer that jumped out in front of me last year, and now and then
the transfer case will jump out of 4-wheel in high.

Otherwise, great shape. I'll take 44,000 soda cans in exchange, if
they are worth .05 where you live...r r r r.

Greegor. You are a pity. Do you think anyone other than your own vapid
worthless stupid kind would buy your crap in these ngs?

I suggest the poster you speak to google on both our addy names and
see whose who and what's what vis a vis moral and ethical concerns, or
for that matter, neurotic twittery.

Kane

Bryan, the substantive discussions take place on ascps.

Alt support child-protective-services.

We post here b/c spanking was started as a NG first.

ASCPS was created as a vehicle for families to talk about CPS numerous
illegalties.

BTW, did you know that child sexual abuse is documented as in decline?

Check out http://www.unh.edu

Center for Crimes against Children.

Bryan contributed:

Subject: are all people against CO verbally abusive?
From: "Bryan K. Zidek"
Date: 1/15/2004 10:37 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

Greg,

You are so much to the point. Most parents that I know do not want
children abused. The headlines of the girls in Baltimore and the case
in New Jersey get the media and the press. CPS failed to protect these
kids. But what most parents have a problem with, and this includes
conservatives, liberals (of which I am primarily in tune with),
socialist, libertarians, from all backgrounds, is that they have no
issue if a parent spanks their child, they have issues with CPS
involvement in it. There also exists issues involving the increasing
number of divorces that use the CPS to make claims against the former
spouse to be, especially false claims of child sexual abuse, to gain an
advantage in court. By implementing standards of due process in their
investigations and actions, CPS would not be allowed to pursue their
personal social engineering practices.

This could be a great newsgroup, if the fanatics, as you describe them,
would come off their lofty clouds of disdain for people and parents and
engage in full meaning and substantive argument. Thanks for your input.
Bryan



Fern.

On 15 Jan 2004 13:17:45 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

Greg speculates:

After much pondering I still have the same gut
feeling as I did early on from Kane, that he
was a kid with Oppositional Defiant Disorder
and instead of straightening out when spanked,
he is trapped in a world of catharsis.

Interesting.

Well, of course. Watermelons are known for their Sappiness.

He also said his Mom put him in FC and his Dad bailed him out.

Love the way you reframe. Enthusiatically if not accurate. WWII, mom
in the shipyards, dad off to war. Someone had to look after little
Kane. Older neighbor couple cared for the sweet little tyke until the
war was over.

Little Kane was so cute and lovable, kind of a sweeter and funnier
Dennis the Menace (no, Hank's, not Leakin's) that everyone wanted to
take care of him. That's why he grew up knowing more than one
language.

Talk about a fortunate kid.

His sexual harassment of me is noted,

I have never in my life been mean to a Plant. How dare you.......

and his use of the c*** word.

Oh, you mean "****."

Have you any idea how neurotic it is to be oversensitive to words on a
computer screen? Or even from people's mouths?

Did you know that the "F" word, (isn't that cute when we mean "****")
is about to become prime time TV acceptable. And you'd never guess
what body has agreed to it. Really, you'd never guess.

It's in the archives.

So is the fact the Fred Rogers, (boy do I miss him...what a loving
caring human being) was known to have a mouth like a stevador on him.

And no one on this NG, AFAIK, supports extreme punishment for
children.

And nothing is more telling than your careful wording with due
avoidance of commitment to what is and isn't "extreme" punishment.

So tell us, Fruit: Would that be the drugging of a child to death and
suspending children by church members with the permission of the
parents and beating them with objects?

Would those two qualify as "extreme" for you?

If so why did you defend both practices, the former as acceptable
because people used to drug their children in the 1800's so the state
had no business blaming the parents for killing their child NOW with
adult drugs to quiet him, and in the latter as a parental LIBERTY
INTEREST?

Please explain any discrepancy for us if you will.

Kane