workable routines

In article , Beth Gallagher wrote:


No, not really. But I'll mention that in my house, my 6 YO DD is just not
expected to do as much as my 9 YO DS. Her share is smaller than his, so even
when she does "her share" it's still theoretically less than he has to do.

This is a good point.

So, when I send them up to clean up
their shared room, I remind her to clean up "her toys" (barbies, Pollys,
dolls, stuffed animals, jewelry -- sometimes all out in one day, which makes
for a hefty job that I often help out with), and he cleans up any of his own
small mess (mostly CDs, guitars, and books) plus all the other books that
have been strewn about by all 3 kids. Additional general clean-up tasks
usually fall on his shoulders because he can manage them, but I rarely, and
only as a personal favor, ask him to clean up "her toys." That would start
WW III.

Part of our issue is that almost always, they have made all of their
mess together. The 10yo does help more with cleaning up the 3yo's
mess, but we always have trouble breaking down the big boys' shared mess
into separate jobs for each of them. If I just send them to work on it
together, the 8yo goofs off, which really ****es off the 10yo.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that no one has a magic answer, but at least it
helps to know we are not alone. ;-)

Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)
--
"Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to
work hard at work worth doing." -- Theodore Roosevelt

(Robyn Kozierok) wrote:
In article , Beth Gallagher wrote:

No, not really. But I'll mention that in my house, my 6 YO DD is just not
expected to do as much as my 9 YO DS. Her share is smaller than his, so even
when she does "her share" it's still theoretically less than he has to do.

This is a good point.

So, when I send them up to clean up
their shared room, I remind her to clean up "her toys" (barbies, Pollys,
dolls, stuffed animals, jewelry -- sometimes all out in one day, which makes
for a hefty job that I often help out with), and he cleans up any of his own
small mess (mostly CDs, guitars, and books) plus all the other books that
have been strewn about by all 3 kids. Additional general clean-up tasks
usually fall on his shoulders because he can manage them, but I rarely, and
only as a personal favor, ask him to clean up "her toys." That would start
WW III.

Part of our issue is that almost always, they have made all of their
mess together. The 10yo does help more with cleaning up the 3yo's
mess, but we always have trouble breaking down the big boys' shared mess
into separate jobs for each of them. If I just send them to work on it
together, the 8yo goofs off, which really ****es off the 10yo.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that no one has a magic answer, but at least it
helps to know we are not alone. ;-)

I used to get really annoyed when my mom would have us clear the
table, and my sister would suddenly find a need to practice the piano,
which took precedence. So I would clean everything except for a token
amount - like three vegetable dishes which I would leave for her to
do. I still don't like putting leftover food away.

Can you segregate it geographically - say in the family room "You (10
yo) take everything on the floor on this side of the room from here to
here and put it away and you (8 yo) clean that side from there to
there?"

Also my mom used to have me vacuum and my sister to dust (this was
theoretically because she was shorter and could get to the chair rungs
and stuff that was down close to the floor and I was stronger and
bigger and could manage the vacuum better. I really like vacuuming
now. So it can be separated by type of work. It doesn't have to be
where they sleep, but they can make their own beds.

Or you could break it down by categories - You (8 yo) pick up all the
CDs and books and put them away, and you (10 yo) pick up all the toys
and games.


grandma Rosalie

In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

Can you segregate it geographically - say in the family room "You (10
yo) take everything on the floor on this side of the room from here to
here and put it away and you (8 yo) clean that side from there to
there?"


This is the approach that has worked best for us so far. But still,
major disputes seem to crop up more often than not.

Or you could break it down by categories - You (8 yo) pick up all the
CDs and books and put them away, and you (10 yo) pick up all the toys
and games.

This is harder because there are a lot of things that just don't
end up fitting into a category. So it ends up being 8yo doing some
specific things and 10yo doing "everything else" which tends to
set off his "life is woefully unfair" sensors. Also, they get in
each other's way more with this model.

Thanks,
--Robyn

(Robyn Kozierok) wrote:

In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

Can you segregate it geographically - say in the family room "You (10
yo) take everything on the floor on this side of the room from here to
here and put it away and you (8 yo) clean that side from there to
there?"

This is the approach that has worked best for us so far. But still,
major disputes seem to crop up more often than not.

Put a rope across the room dividing it in half and/or only let one of
them in there at a time. My mom used to segregate us. When we had a
long cross country trip, my mom built a barrier made of luggage
between us so that we couldn't reach each other (none of that "I'm not
touching you")

Or you could break it down by categories - You (8 yo) pick up all the
CDs and books and put them away, and you (10 yo) pick up all the toys
and games.

This is harder because there are a lot of things that just don't
end up fitting into a category. So it ends up being 8yo doing some
specific things and 10yo doing "everything else" which tends to
set off his "life is woefully unfair" sensors. Also, they get in
each other's way more with this model.

OK - Here's what you do - Give the 10 yo the *specific* things FIRST
and list ALL the specific things that you can see. And let him get on
with it by himself. Occupy the 8 yo an another area. Then after half
an hour, switch places, and give the 8 yo "everything else" to clean
up. Maybe the 10 yo will then prefer to do "everything else" after
that because the "everything else" may be a lot less than the
categories.

Possibly you could also make a contest out of it as long as it wasn't
divisive.



grandma Rosalie

Yikes. I just tell them to clean it up. I'm sorry, but the "no fair"
argument just doesn't cut it. I have to do things I don't like and that's
what life is all about. I'm not about to start putting ropes up and spending
time dividing by task who should do what.

It's not fair? Too bad. Life goes on. If the older one feels put upon, I
pull out the "you are allowed to do more than the younger sibling and with
the privileges comes the responsibility."

I'm serious. I think that this is going way too far. Clean the stuff up.
Period.

Mean Mom,
Marijke


"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...
(Robyn Kozierok) wrote:

In article ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

Can you segregate it geographically - say in the family room "You (10
yo) take everything on the floor on this side of the room from here to
here and put it away and you (8 yo) clean that side from there to
there?"

This is the approach that has worked best for us so far. But still,
major disputes seem to crop up more often than not.

Put a rope across the room dividing it in half and/or only let one of
them in there at a time. My mom used to segregate us. When we had a
long cross country trip, my mom built a barrier made of luggage
between us so that we couldn't reach each other (none of that "I'm not
touching you")

Or you could break it down by categories - You (8 yo) pick up all the
CDs and books and put them away, and you (10 yo) pick up all the toys
and games.

This is harder because there are a lot of things that just don't
end up fitting into a category. So it ends up being 8yo doing some
specific things and 10yo doing "everything else" which tends to
set off his "life is woefully unfair" sensors. Also, they get in
each other's way more with this model.

OK - Here's what you do - Give the 10 yo the *specific* things FIRST
and list ALL the specific things that you can see. And let him get on
with it by himself. Occupy the 8 yo an another area. Then after half
an hour, switch places, and give the 8 yo "everything else" to clean
up. Maybe the 10 yo will then prefer to do "everything else" after
that because the "everything else" may be a lot less than the
categories.

Possibly you could also make a contest out of it as long as it wasn't
divisive.



grandma Rosalie

Marijke wrote:
Yikes. I just tell them to clean it up. I'm sorry, but the "no fair"
argument just doesn't cut it. I have to do things I don't like and that's
what life is all about. I'm not about to start putting ropes up and spending
time dividing by task who should do what.

It's not fair? Too bad. Life goes on. If the older one feels put upon, I
pull out the "you are allowed to do more than the younger sibling and with
the privileges comes the responsibility."

I'm serious. I think that this is going way too far. Clean the stuff up.
Period.

Mean Mom,
Marijke


I'm inclined to agree. Although I don't have DD clean
up DS's room, when it's time to clean some other part
of the house, I just expect them to clean and not whine
about it (whining means a quarter goes in the whine
jar). My kids are very motivated by money, though, and
if a section of the house is particularly cluttered,
and they didn't do all the cluttering, they'll get a
little extra allowance.

And I'm with you about "Life isn't fair". In fact,
I think learning that life is not fair is a very
important lesson.

Robin, you should have Ryan read these posts

Which makes me wonder -- are anyone's kids aware that
we are writing about them here? Mine are blissfully
ignorant of it. I wonder if DD or DS will ever
stumble on here doing a google search?


scott DD 11 and DS 8

In article ,
Scott wrote:
Marijke wrote:
Yikes. I just tell them to clean it up. I'm sorry, but the "no fair"
argument just doesn't cut it. I have to do things I don't like and that's
what life is all about. I'm not about to start putting ropes up and spending
time dividing by task who should do what.

It's not fair? Too bad. Life goes on. If the older one feels put upon, I
pull out the "you are allowed to do more than the younger sibling and with
the privileges comes the responsibility."

I'm serious. I think that this is going way too far. Clean the stuff up.
Period.


I'm inclined to agree. Although I don't have DD clean
up DS's room, when it's time to clean some other part
of the house, I just expect them to clean and not whine
about it

We've tried this, but then the 8yo will often literally do nothing, in
which case the 10yo has a valid complaint, IMO. Basically, the 8yo
has to be assigned a specific job in order to get him to pitch in
an amount comensurate with his age and ability. But that's a big pain
for us a lot of the time...

Sometimes, rarely, they do manage to work things out on their own.
They make up games like "I'm only allowed to pick up anything with
green on it and you're only allowed to pick up anything with blue on
it." They have a special "frog" game they use for picking up the final
scraps and little bits after the big stuff is put away. This is, of
course, what I prefer. Other times I do have to physically separate
them (generally by time, but sometimes by space) as Rosalie suggests,
or, more often, assign jobs to make sure the 8yo does *something*.

Robin, you should have Ryan read these posts

Which makes me wonder -- are anyone's kids aware that
we are writing about them here? Mine are blissfully
ignorant of it. I wonder if DD or DS will ever
stumble on here doing a google search?

Mine aren't, at least not explicitly. They are aware that I write
about them sometimes, but I don't think they really know where it
goes.

Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)
--
"Far and away the best prize that life has to offer is the chance to
work hard at work worth doing." -- Theodore Roosevelt

Rosalie B. wrote in :

OK - Here's what you do - Give the 10 yo the specific things FIRST
and list ALL the specific things that you can see.**And*let*him*get*on
with it by himself.**Occupy*the*8*yo*an*another*area.**Then*a fter*half
an hour, switch places, and give the 8 yo "everything else" to clean
up.**Maybe*the*10*yo*will*then*prefer*to*do*"every thing*else"*after
that because the "everything else" may be a lot less than the
categories.

What would probably happen in our house is that the 10yo would
d.a.w.d.l.e... over the tidying up, and not get it done.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

Marijke wrote:
Yikes. I just tell them to clean it up. I'm sorry, but the "no fair"
argument just doesn't cut it. I have to do things I don't like and that's
what life is all about. I'm not about to start putting ropes up and
spending
time dividing by task who should do what.

My daughters share a room. I send each of them in there for a stated time, say
fifteen minutes, and tell them to put away as much of their stuff as they can.
After that I say "Are you done? Can I sweep in there? Remember, everything on
the floor can get tossed now." Sometimes they dive back in and rescue things,
sometimes they let me sweep. (Once in a while they even insist on sweeping
themselves.) I am generally kind and rescue things like puzzle pieces and Bingo
balls whose loss would ruin a game, but by and large I sweep any junk on the
floor into a heap, tell them to take one last look, and it goes.

--Helen

Scott wrote in :

Which makes me wonder -- are anyone's kids aware that
we are writing about them here?**Mine*are*blissfully
ignorant of it.**I*wonder*if*DD*or*DS*will*ever
stumble on here doing a google search?**

Mine know of the existance of misc.kids and misc.kids.moderated,
but I don't know if they've yet realised I write about them here.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three