Calculating NCP College Support Costs

Yes the FAFSA form for calculating the CP financial contribution is
only sent to the CP, but how is the NCP contribution figured? What are
the records on case law, judgements as to how the NCP is assessed for
his share? My finacial adviser suggested $2,000 per child. Along with
the child support for two daughters over 4 years this totals $40,000.
How much can they grind you for before it is judged 'unjust?'
Seektao

"Seektao" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yes the FAFSA form for calculating the CP financial contribution is
only sent to the CP, but how is the NCP contribution figured?

It would be helpful if we knew whether you are the CP or the NCP to limit
the amount of information to share with you.

If you are the CP the CS received for all children plus alimony received is
a Worksheet B add-on to your income. If you are an NCP all CS and alimony
paid is a Worksheet C deduction from your income.

What are
the records on case law, judgements as to how the NCP is assessed for
his share?

It depends on what your state CS law says about CS for adult children
attending school. Generally, how an NCP is required to pay CS is based on
the number of children and their ages. CS orders for adult children plus
minor children still reamining in the home can be split or combined based on
whether state law allows the CS to be paid directly to the college student.
CS for only one child can be paid directly to the student.

The case law in my state is very specific. It makes very clear CS for minor
children is for the care and maintenance of the children. And CS for adult
children attending school is for advancing the state's interests in having
an educated populace. IOW - Once a child reaches the age of 18 in my state
the CP no longer gets the use of the CS money and the student has sole
discretion over how the CS money is spent since it is paid directly to the
student.

My finacial adviser suggested $2,000 per child. Along with
the child support for two daughters over 4 years this totals $40,000.
How much can they grind you for before it is judged 'unjust?'

Fire your financial advisor. They are making up stuff and giving you bad
advice!

You'll get better college funding advice from your student's high school
FAFSA advisor and by reading the Department of Education's booklet "Funding
Your Education" downloadable from www.fafsa.ed.gov.

Bob Whiteside wrote:
"Seektao" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes the FAFSA form for calculating the CP financial contribution is
only sent to the CP, but how is the NCP contribution figured?


It would be helpful if we knew whether you are the CP or the NCP to limit
the amount of information to share with you.

If you are the CP the CS received for all children plus alimony received is
a Worksheet B add-on to your income. If you are an NCP all CS and alimony
paid is a Worksheet C deduction from your income.

What are

the records on case law, judgements as to how the NCP is assessed for
his share?


It depends on what your state CS law says about CS for adult children
attending school. Generally, how an NCP is required to pay CS is based on
the number of children and their ages. CS orders for adult children plus
minor children still reamining in the home can be split or combined based on
whether state law allows the CS to be paid directly to the college student.
CS for only one child can be paid directly to the student.

The case law in my state is very specific. It makes very clear CS for minor
children is for the care and maintenance of the children. And CS for adult
children attending school is for advancing the state's interests in having
an educated populace.

But what about children of married parents? What recourse do they have
if their parents refuse to give them any money for college?

- Ron ^*^

"Werebat" wrote in message
news:e8Zuf.90919$oG.75297@dukeread02...


Bob Whiteside wrote:
"Seektao" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes the FAFSA form for calculating the CP financial contribution is
only sent to the CP, but how is the NCP contribution figured?


It would be helpful if we knew whether you are the CP or the NCP to limit
the amount of information to share with you.

If you are the CP the CS received for all children plus alimony received
is
a Worksheet B add-on to your income. If you are an NCP all CS and
alimony
paid is a Worksheet C deduction from your income.

What are

the records on case law, judgements as to how the NCP is assessed for
his share?


It depends on what your state CS law says about CS for adult children
attending school. Generally, how an NCP is required to pay CS is based
on
the number of children and their ages. CS orders for adult children plus
minor children still reamining in the home can be split or combined based
on
whether state law allows the CS to be paid directly to the college
student.
CS for only one child can be paid directly to the student.

The case law in my state is very specific. It makes very clear CS for
minor
children is for the care and maintenance of the children. And CS for
adult
children attending school is for advancing the state's interests in
having
an educated populace.

But what about children of married parents? What recourse do they have if
their parents refuse to give them any money for college?

- Ron ^*^

Ron's comment above is very much to the point. I used to write up court
cases for a newsletter, and over the years I saw quite a few cases where the
issue was support of adult "children." Judges in these cases commonly cited
the interest of the state in having an educated population. However, these
judges never explained why -- if that WAS the state's interest -- there was
no law requiring that children of married parents pay support during the
college years. If there was no need for such a law (because married parents
would do this anyway), then the law would require no enforcement against
married parents, but it would have ceased to be discriminatory.

When I was writing up such cases, I used to wonder whether the judges
who wrote the rulings were just plain lacking in intelligence, because they
articulated an obviously deficient justification for the discrimination
between married and unmarried parents (mostly, as a practical matter,
fathers). My conclusion was that, while some of the judges might have been
stupid, most of them were just being dishonest. They knew full well that it
was fine to discriminate against an official scapegoat group. However,
these judges also knew that any effort by the state legislature to tell
married parents that they had to support adult "children" would have caused
an outcry.

The fact of the matter is that, although all kinds of groups are
constantly screaming about discrimination, prejudice and discrimination
against heterosexual males is widely practiced, particularly in the domestic
relations field, and no one says a word about it.

"Kenneth S." wrote in

Ron's comment above is very much to the point. I used to write up
court cases for a newsletter, and over the years I saw quite a few cases
where the issue was support of adult "children." Judges in these cases
commonly cited the interest of the state in having an educated population.

Hold on, when did the intent of CS law move from assuring children had the
basic needs to live to ensuring that the state has well educated citizens?

"Werebat" wrote in message
news:e8Zuf.90919$oG.75297@dukeread02...


Bob Whiteside wrote:
"Seektao" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes the FAFSA form for calculating the CP financial contribution is
only sent to the CP, but how is the NCP contribution figured?


It would be helpful if we knew whether you are the CP or the NCP to
limit
the amount of information to share with you.

If you are the CP the CS received for all children plus alimony received
is
a Worksheet B add-on to your income. If you are an NCP all CS and
alimony
paid is a Worksheet C deduction from your income.

What are

the records on case law, judgements as to how the NCP is assessed for
his share?


It depends on what your state CS law says about CS for adult children
attending school. Generally, how an NCP is required to pay CS is based
on
the number of children and their ages. CS orders for adult children
plus
minor children still reamining in the home can be split or combined
based on
whether state law allows the CS to be paid directly to the college
student.
CS for only one child can be paid directly to the student.

The case law in my state is very specific. It makes very clear CS for
minor
children is for the care and maintenance of the children. And CS for
adult
children attending school is for advancing the state's interests in
having
an educated populace.

But what about children of married parents? What recourse do they have
if their parents refuse to give them any money for college?

In the context of FAFSA and student financial aid there is no difference in
treatment between children of married or divorced parents. If the parents
do not give the children money for college, the rules are the same for all
college students. The federal laws regarding college funding are generally
applicable until a student reaches age 25. Adult child attending school CS
in state laws usually ends at age 21.

The issue of CS for college students is counter-intuitive because it is a
disadvantage for children of divorced parents to receive the money. Receipt
of CS drives up the Expected Family Contribution, forces the student to take
out larger student loans, and makes the student make up a larger CP share if
they don't give money to the student toward the EFC or take out parent
loans.

A more student friendly program would have the state butt out, let the
student declare only one parent's income, and have the other parent
voluntarily give the student money. The overall cost of a college education
for a child of divorced parents would be lower under a plan like that.

"Kenneth S." wrote in message
...

"Werebat" wrote in message
news:e8Zuf.90919$oG.75297@dukeread02...


Bob Whiteside wrote:
"Seektao" wrote in message
oups.com...

Yes the FAFSA form for calculating the CP financial contribution is
only sent to the CP, but how is the NCP contribution figured?


It would be helpful if we knew whether you are the CP or the NCP to
limit
the amount of information to share with you.

If you are the CP the CS received for all children plus alimony
received
is
a Worksheet B add-on to your income. If you are an NCP all CS and
alimony
paid is a Worksheet C deduction from your income.

What are

the records on case law, judgements as to how the NCP is assessed for
his share?


It depends on what your state CS law says about CS for adult children
attending school. Generally, how an NCP is required to pay CS is based
on
the number of children and their ages. CS orders for adult children
plus
minor children still reamining in the home can be split or combined
based
on
whether state law allows the CS to be paid directly to the college
student.
CS for only one child can be paid directly to the student.

The case law in my state is very specific. It makes very clear CS for
minor
children is for the care and maintenance of the children. And CS for
adult
children attending school is for advancing the state's interests in
having
an educated populace.

But what about children of married parents? What recourse do they have
if
their parents refuse to give them any money for college?

- Ron ^*^

Ron's comment above is very much to the point. I used to write up
court
cases for a newsletter, and over the years I saw quite a few cases where
the
issue was support of adult "children." Judges in these cases commonly
cited
the interest of the state in having an educated population. However,
these
judges never explained why -- if that WAS the state's interest -- there
was
no law requiring that children of married parents pay support during the
college years. If there was no need for such a law (because married
parents
would do this anyway), then the law would require no enforcement against
married parents, but it would have ceased to be discriminatory.

The Oregon Attorney General tried to argue before the Appeals Court and
State Supreme Court that divorced fathers are not treated differently than
married parents because married parents could be ordered to pay CS too. His
logic was married, but separated, fathers could be ordered to pay CS just
like a divorced father. The Appeals Court told the Attorney General he was
full of it, but then turned around and ruled the way Kenneth noted above.

The problem, of course, is the activist courts start with the conclusion
they want to reach and then use pretzel logic to get there.

I have always thought the best way to counter this crap is to bring a test
case where the arguments are about how children of divorced parents are
treated differently than children of married parents. The arguments about
fathers' treatment always get shot down. I think an argument about
treatment of children could have some success.

Thanks. I appreciate your input and ideas on this. I'm in NY state,
and I want to contribute to my kids education. I have spoken to
friends in better financial shape than me paying $2,000- $5,000 per
child for college. So I was going on that rough guess. Why is it such
a secret? There must be a formula. I do know that saving for
retiement cannot be sacrificed for college-- state has an interest
there too.
Ideas?
Bob Whiteside wrote:
"Seektao" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yes the FAFSA form for calculating the CP financial contribution is
only sent to the CP, but how is the NCP contribution figured?

It would be helpful if we knew whether you are the CP or the NCP to limit
the amount of information to share with you.

If you are the CP the CS received for all children plus alimony received is
a Worksheet B add-on to your income. If you are an NCP all CS and alimony
paid is a Worksheet C deduction from your income.

What are
the records on case law, judgements as to how the NCP is assessed for
his share?

It depends on what your state CS law says about CS for adult children
attending school. Generally, how an NCP is required to pay CS is based on
the number of children and their ages. CS orders for adult children plus
minor children still reamining in the home can be split or combined based on
whether state law allows the CS to be paid directly to the college student.
CS for only one child can be paid directly to the student.

The case law in my state is very specific. It makes very clear CS for minor
children is for the care and maintenance of the children. And CS for adult
children attending school is for advancing the state's interests in having
an educated populace. IOW - Once a child reaches the age of 18 in my state
the CP no longer gets the use of the CS money and the student has sole
discretion over how the CS money is spent since it is paid directly to the
student.

My finacial adviser suggested $2,000 per child. Along with
the child support for two daughters over 4 years this totals $40,000.
How much can they grind you for before it is judged 'unjust?'

Fire your financial advisor. They are making up stuff and giving you bad
advice!

You'll get better college funding advice from your student's high school
FAFSA advisor and by reading the Department of Education's booklet "Funding
Your Education" downloadable from www.fafsa.ed.gov.

"Seektao" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks. I appreciate your input and ideas on this. I'm in NY state,
and I want to contribute to my kids education. I have spoken to
friends in better financial shape than me paying $2,000- $5,000 per
child for college. So I was going on that rough guess. Why is it such
a secret? There must be a formula. I do know that saving for
retiement cannot be sacrificed for college-- state has an interest
there too.
Ideas?

$2,000 - $5,000 per year? do you KNOW how much college costs?

SUNY system
http://www.suny.edu/Student/paying_tuition.cfm

If you truly want to make that money for for their education, you'd do well
to open college trust funds ASAP - and how old your kids already are will
determine how much help it's going to be - 4 years (taking that from your
original post) - pity you didn't start this whole thing sooner.



Bob Whiteside wrote:
"Seektao" wrote in message
oups.com...
Yes the FAFSA form for calculating the CP financial contribution is
only sent to the CP, but how is the NCP contribution figured?

It would be helpful if we knew whether you are the CP or the NCP to limit
the amount of information to share with you.

If you are the CP the CS received for all children plus alimony received
is
a Worksheet B add-on to your income. If you are an NCP all CS and
alimony
paid is a Worksheet C deduction from your income.

What are
the records on case law, judgements as to how the NCP is assessed for
his share?

It depends on what your state CS law says about CS for adult children
attending school. Generally, how an NCP is required to pay CS is based
on
the number of children and their ages. CS orders for adult children plus
minor children still reamining in the home can be split or combined based
on
whether state law allows the CS to be paid directly to the college
student.
CS for only one child can be paid directly to the student.

The case law in my state is very specific. It makes very clear CS for
minor
children is for the care and maintenance of the children. And CS for
adult
children attending school is for advancing the state's interests in
having
an educated populace. IOW - Once a child reaches the age of 18 in my
state
the CP no longer gets the use of the CS money and the student has sole
discretion over how the CS money is spent since it is paid directly to
the
student.

My finacial adviser suggested $2,000 per child. Along with
the child support for two daughters over 4 years this totals $40,000.
How much can they grind you for before it is judged 'unjust?'

Fire your financial advisor. They are making up stuff and giving you bad
advice!

You'll get better college funding advice from your student's high school
FAFSA advisor and by reading the Department of Education's booklet
"Funding
Your Education" downloadable from www.fafsa.ed.gov.

My parents told me up front, while I was in High School, that they
weren't going to be giving me any money for college. I had to make it
on my own. And you know what? I made it on my own. Worked to get two
scholarships, and they didn't HAVE to contribute anything for the first
two years. I think they ended up giving me $2000-$3000 per year for the
last two.

If Papa State had stepped in and told us all that they HAD to
contribute, say, half, guess how much incentive I would have had to
excel in school?

But Papa State already knows this, which is why he'll NEVER go after
married parents, just the official scapegoat of divorced dads. Then
he'll claim that it's all good in theory because in theory I could have
orchestrated my parents' breakup while I was in school if I'd really
wanted that cash.

Pathetic!

- Ron ^*^


Moon Shyne wrote:
"Seektao" wrote in message
ups.com...

Thanks. I appreciate your input and ideas on this. I'm in NY state,
and I want to contribute to my kids education. I have spoken to
friends in better financial shape than me paying $2,000- $5,000 per
child for college. So I was going on that rough guess. Why is it such
a secret? There must be a formula. I do know that saving for
retiement cannot be sacrificed for college-- state has an interest
there too.
Ideas?


$2,000 - $5,000 per year? do you KNOW how much college costs?

SUNY system
http://www.suny.edu/Student/paying_tuition.cfm

If you truly want to make that money for for their education, you'd do well
to open college trust funds ASAP - and how old your kids already are will
determine how much help it's going to be - 4 years (taking that from your
original post) - pity you didn't start this whole thing sooner.




Bob Whiteside wrote:

"Seektao" wrote in message
egroups.com...

Yes the FAFSA form for calculating the CP financial contribution is
only sent to the CP, but how is the NCP contribution figured?

It would be helpful if we knew whether you are the CP or the NCP to limit
the amount of information to share with you.

If you are the CP the CS received for all children plus alimony received
is
a Worksheet B add-on to your income. If you are an NCP all CS and
alimony
paid is a Worksheet C deduction from your income.

What are

the records on case law, judgements as to how the NCP is assessed for
his share?

It depends on what your state CS law says about CS for adult children
attending school. Generally, how an NCP is required to pay CS is based
on
the number of children and their ages. CS orders for adult children plus
minor children still reamining in the home can be split or combined based
on
whether state law allows the CS to be paid directly to the college
student.
CS for only one child can be paid directly to the student.

The case law in my state is very specific. It makes very clear CS for
minor
children is for the care and maintenance of the children. And CS for
adult
children attending school is for advancing the state's interests in
having
an educated populace. IOW - Once a child reaches the age of 18 in my
state
the CP no longer gets the use of the CS money and the student has sole
discretion over how the CS money is spent since it is paid directly to
the
student.

My finacial adviser suggested $2,000 per child. Along with

the child support for two daughters over 4 years this totals $40,000.
How much can they grind you for before it is judged 'unjust?'

Fire your financial advisor. They are making up stuff and giving you bad
advice!

You'll get better college funding advice from your student's high school
FAFSA advisor and by reading the Department of Education's booklet
"Funding
Your Education" downloadable from www.fafsa.ed.gov.