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#1
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Q: allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
I'm looking for anyone with real information on this (as in personal
experience, journal references etc) Firstly, there is a gastroenterologist, a paed. and a LC with particular experience in food allergy all giving different advice. I've done what synopsis I can, but I probably have not got this 100% right .. A friend of mine has a 7.5 mo DD who has had an ulcerated colon since either a) 3 weeks pp when my friend had 3 lots of different ABs due to what was thought to be an infected c-section wound (which turned out to be an irritation to a stitch) ... and this is what the gastroenterologist thinks happened ,.... or b) from birth - her family have a history of gut problems with the older DD and the grandmother both having some degree of irritable gut throughout life (but these "problems" have never been checked to see if they're allergies etc ... the grandmother has only been checked for colon cancer). At any rate, the baby has been exclusively bf thus far, and my friend has kept a food diary and removed pretty much everything from her diet that could possibly cause a problem irritating the gut lining the foods she is eating a lamb, chicken, rockmelon, watermelon, occasional apple, sugar, salt, pumpkin, zucchini ... and I think that's about it. No dairy. No grains at all (even rice was causing an issue). So at 7.5 mo, the gastroenterologist has suggested that neocate formula may be the way forward as it seems that the elimination diet has not really helped the problem and there aren't a whole lot extra foods my friend can cut out. I've been backing bf, and my friend has talked to the LC plus consultants from the ABA, but is at a point where she just doesn't know what to do. She wants to bf, but the gastroenterologist suspects that this is part the problem (don't ask me why I'm just repeating what she told my friend). At this point in time, I think she wants to at least try to see if the neocate will make a difference and is planning to do trial of this whilst using a pump to maintain her supply so she can switch back if there's no improvement. Personally I'm always going to be pro-bf, but I also think you gotta know when a situation is so medically different from the norm that other solutions may need consideration. That's why I'm asking here in case anybody else has some specific insights into what might be a way forward. Amanda |
#2
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Q: allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
"Gorgon Park" wrote in message ups.com... FlowerGirl wrote: I'm looking for anyone with real information on this (as in personal experience, journal references etc) Firstly, there is a gastroenterologist, a paed. and a LC with particular experience in food allergy all giving different advice. I've done what synopsis I can, but I probably have not got this 100% right .. A friend of mine has a 7.5 mo DD who has had an ulcerated colon since either a) 3 weeks pp when my friend had 3 lots of different ABs due to what was thought to be an infected c-section wound (which turned out to be an irritation to a stitch) ... and this is what the gastroenterologist thinks happened ,.... or b) from birth - her family have a history of gut problems with the older DD and the grandmother both having some degree of irritable gut throughout life (but these "problems" have never been checked to see if they're allergies etc ... the grandmother has only been checked for colon cancer). At any rate, the baby has been exclusively bf thus far, and my friend has kept a food diary and removed pretty much everything from her diet that could possibly cause a problem irritating the gut lining the foods she is eating a lamb, chicken, rockmelon, watermelon, occasional apple, sugar, salt, pumpkin, zucchini ... and I think that's about it. No dairy. No grains at all (even rice was causing an issue). snip I had a similar problem with my daughter (if by irritating the gut you mean bloody stools), and the last thing that I eliminated that did the trick is iodized table salt. It turns out that my daughter is allergic to corn and all corn by-products. Iodized table salt contains corn by-products and the sugar she is eating may also contain cornstarch as a processing by-product (which does not have to be listed on an ingredient label). I choose to do an elimination diet rather than formula, which my daughter's gastro was also pushing (at around the same age). She cleared up within a week of my stopping iodized salt and switching to sea salt. I used the Sears elimination diet (from the askdrsears website http://www.askdrsears.com/html/4/t041200.asp), so the foods I was "allowed" to eat were slightly different: lamb, turkey, rice, millet, all kinds of squash, potatoes and sweet potatoes. So, as far as hard scientific evidence, I have none. But, what I did is read the baby. My daughter was still healthy and still gaining weight without a problem, even with the irritated gut and bloody stools. If she had been sickly, I may have choosen differently. As it was not seeming to affect her health, I choose what, to me, was the least radical of the two options - doing the elimination diet for myself rather than formula for her. I did it for about 6 weeks before figuring out the whole corn thing. My daughter is now nearly 3, still breastfeeding and has not had any further instestinal symptoms. Hope this gives some help, or at least some hope. Stacey Thanks so much ... your story rings true - this baby is such a fat little contented thing that its hard to believe she ever cries leave alone screams in pain from wind. ... and I don't know about bloody stools, but I know they did do a stool test and there was plenty of pus. I shall pass the info on about the salt and sugar. Ta Amanda |
#3
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allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
I have to say that I'd also be skeptical about going away from breastmilk
just to see if it works. It would be much better if it were something diagnosed, like if a baby had been diagnosed with PKU. Are there any tests that can be done to see if any of the foods the mum is eating could be causing the problem? The other side of things is to see that this poor baby is not well, she is 7.5mths old, so it's a whole different ball game to giving a newborn formula, especially as the mum is planning to pump so should be able to go back to breastfeeding. So, no conclusions! I don't think I've ever heard of a baby suddenly to better, even on hypoallergenic formula, but then I guess those people aren't posting asking how to relactate! Anne |
#4
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Q: allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
***delurking***
This is my personal experience... My son began with GI reactions (bloody, mucousy, green diarrhea) at 4 weeks. After dairy, then soy elimination he was better, but not within normal parameters. I also did the Dr. Sears elimination diet. Once again, better, but his stools were still mucousy & watery. We (me, the ped & GI doctors) didn't know if it was something in my diet he was still reacting to or if it was just irritation & needing some help healing. The GI doctor wanted me to give him Neocate short term for healing & the ped. wanted me to continue BF & accept the situation as it was. My personal feeling was that formula of any kind was not an option for us because my son was/is thriving & we were not at "last resort" time yet. After lots of consideration, research & trying things that didn't work for us (pancreatic enzymes, probiotics, chiropractic...), I chose to try an alternative medicine - slippery elm bark powder - when he was 4 months old. He improved immediately. The change was so fast (normal poop within 3 days) that I thought it must have been a coincidence & I took him off the slippery elm. Within a week we were back to green, mucousy stool with flecks of blood. I started him back on the slippery elm & he is doing great. His skin is clear & he poops every 3 to 5 days & it is seedy & has substance. He is now 5 months old & I have been able to add foods back in to the point that I'm only eliminating milk, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, fish, shellfish & eggs. Through LLL & POFAK (at kidswithfoodallergies.org) I have learned that many different things work for different moms & babies, so I don't want to give the impression that I've found "the cure." But, I do think it's worth consideration in this situation as it's a very safe alternative. Brandy FlowerGirl wrote: I'm looking for anyone with real information on this (as in personal experience, journal references etc) Firstly, there is a gastroenterologist, a paed. and a LC with particular experience in food allergy all giving different advice. I've done what synopsis I can, but I probably have not got this 100% right .. A friend of mine has a 7.5 mo DD who has had an ulcerated colon since either a) 3 weeks pp when my friend had 3 lots of different ABs due to what was thought to be an infected c-section wound (which turned out to be an irritation to a stitch) ... and this is what the gastroenterologist thinks happened ,.... or b) from birth - her family have a history of gut problems with the older DD and the grandmother both having some degree of irritable gut throughout life (but these "problems" have never been checked to see if they're allergies etc ... the grandmother has only been checked for colon cancer). At any rate, the baby has been exclusively bf thus far, and my friend has kept a food diary and removed pretty much everything from her diet that could possibly cause a problem irritating the gut lining the foods she is eating a lamb, chicken, rockmelon, watermelon, occasional apple, sugar, salt, pumpkin, zucchini ... and I think that's about it. No dairy. No grains at all (even rice was causing an issue). So at 7.5 mo, the gastroenterologist has suggested that neocate formula may be the way forward as it seems that the elimination diet has not really helped the problem and there aren't a whole lot extra foods my friend can cut out. I've been backing bf, and my friend has talked to the LC plus consultants from the ABA, but is at a point where she just doesn't know what to do. She wants to bf, but the gastroenterologist suspects that this is part the problem (don't ask me why I'm just repeating what she told my friend). At this point in time, I think she wants to at least try to see if the neocate will make a difference and is planning to do trial of this whilst using a pump to maintain her supply so she can switch back if there's no improvement. Personally I'm always going to be pro-bf, but I also think you gotta know when a situation is so medically different from the norm that other solutions may need consideration. That's why I'm asking here in case anybody else has some specific insights into what might be a way forward. Amanda |
#5
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Q: allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
"brandini73" wrote in message ps.com... ***delurking*** This is my personal experience... My son began with GI reactions (bloody, mucousy, green diarrhea) at 4 weeks. After dairy, then soy elimination he was better, but not within normal parameters. I also did the Dr. Sears elimination diet. Once again, better, but his stools were still mucousy & watery. We (me, the ped & GI doctors) didn't know if it was something in my diet he was still reacting to or if it was just irritation & needing some help healing. The GI doctor wanted me to give him Neocate short term for healing & the ped. wanted me to continue BF & accept the situation as it was. My personal feeling was that formula of any kind was not an option for us because my son was/is thriving & we were not at "last resort" time yet. After lots of consideration, research & trying things that didn't work for us (pancreatic enzymes, probiotics, chiropractic...), I chose to try an alternative medicine - slippery elm bark powder - when he was 4 months old. He improved immediately. The change was so fast (normal poop within 3 days) that I thought it must have been a coincidence & I took him off the slippery elm. Within a week we were back to green, mucousy stool with flecks of blood. I started him back on the slippery elm & he is doing great. His skin is clear & he poops every 3 to 5 days & it is seedy & has substance. He is now 5 months old & I have been able to add foods back in to the point that I'm only eliminating milk, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, fish, shellfish & eggs. Through LLL & POFAK (at kidswithfoodallergies.org) I have learned that many different things work for different moms & babies, so I don't want to give the impression that I've found "the cure." But, I do think it's worth consideration in this situation as it's a very safe alternative. Brandy I shall pass this info on to my friend thanks. Amanda |
#6
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allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
"Anne Rogers" wrote in message ... I have to say that I'd also be skeptical about going away from breastmilk just to see if it works. It would be much better if it were something diagnosed, like if a baby had been diagnosed with PKU. Are there any tests that can be done to see if any of the foods the mum is eating could be causing the problem? "Ulcerative Colitis" is the Dx. Unfortunately specific cause for this case hasn't been found yet. The gastro's assumption is that the bub is still reacting to something in the bm. The foods the Mum is eating are from trial and error, food diary, advice from the gastroenterologist and LC with allergy specialisation. I listed them in the OP - there's not more than about 8 foods on the list. I contacted her Re the salt and sugar aspects last night and as they are the only non whole-foods left in the diet, however the salt is sea salt but she's going to cut both salt and sugar for a week. There also may be a genetic aspect for metabolism of carbohydrates so the sugar may be a problem there. The other side of things is to see that this poor baby is not well, she is 7.5mths old, so it's a whole different ball game to giving a newborn formula, especially as the mum is planning to pump so should be able to go back to breastfeeding. The other aspect here is that the first daughter had similar symptoms that went away after she was weaned at 13 months. This wasn't medically investigated though although my friend did cut gluten and dairy from her diet at the time. My friend doesn't want to wean, hence the trial without losing too much supply. So, no conclusions! I don't think I've ever heard of a baby suddenly to better, even on hypoallergenic formula, but then I guess those people aren't posting asking how to relactate! The problem I guess is that the specific cause hasn't been identified in this case. Thanks Amanda |
#7
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allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
FlowerGirl wrote: "Ulcerative Colitis" is the Dx. Unfortunately specific cause for this case hasn't been found yet. The gastro's assumption is that the bub is still reacting to something in the bm. Is the mom or baby on any types of medication? I always forgot to check labels for medications when I was doing my elimination diet, because I don't think of these things as "food". Also, vitamins, calcium pills, etc have to be checked. This usually requires a phone call to the manufacturer as they are not required to list non-medicinal ingredients on these products. The foods the Mum is eating are from trial and error, food diary, advice from the gastroenterologist and LC with allergy specialisation. I listed them in the OP - there's not more than about 8 foods on the list. I contacted her Re the salt and sugar aspects last night and as they are the only non whole-foods left in the diet, however the salt is sea salt but she's going to cut both salt and sugar for a week. There also may be a genetic aspect for metabolism of carbohydrates so the sugar may be a problem there. snip The other aspect here is that the first daughter had similar symptoms that went away after she was weaned at 13 months. This wasn't medically investigated though although my friend did cut gluten and dairy from her diet at the time. According my daughter's gastro, some kids are just super sensitive and no cause is ever found for the irritated gut, but they grow out of the sensitivity around 1 year. That would be about the same time frame as the older sibling in this case. Of course, he would only recommend leaving the irritation "untreated" if the baby is otherwise healthy, gaining weight, etc. I guess it is just a matter of "reading the baby" and deciding what is best in each case. Formula was pushed by my daughter's gastro after she turned 6 months, and in hindsight, it is a good thing that we stuck with the breastfeeding, as the formula he was suggesting (Nutramagen?) had corn syrup solids as the first ingredient, and it turned out she was allergic to corn. I hope it all works out for them and, whatever she chooses, the baby is and stays healthy. Stacey |
#8
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Q: allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
brandini73 wrote:
probiotics, chiropractic...), I chose to try an alternative medicine - slippery elm bark powder - when he was 4 months old. He improved immediately. The change was so fast (normal poop within 3 days) that I thought it must have been a coincidence & I took him off the slippery elm. Within a week we were back to green, mucousy stool with flecks of blood. I started him back on the slippery elm & he is doing great. His skin is clear & he poops every 3 to 5 days & it is seedy & has substance. He is now 5 months old & I have been able to add foods back in to the point that I'm only eliminating milk, soy, peanuts, tree nuts, fish, shellfish & eggs. can i ask how much slippery elm you gave? how did you give it? and is it something he will eventually stop do you think? DS1 is 4 next month & his allergies are only getting worse. the list of what he is allergic to is so long now it's easier to list what he's not allergic to - milk, most grains & a few veggies & a few fruit only. his poo is also not normal. anyway, naturopath we are seeing said until we heal his gut ("leaky gut syndrome") the allergies will never get better. she is wanting all these expensive multitude of things which we are not happy with & not going to try yet. but a friend mentioned slippery elm & i remember me taking it when i was younger to help my tummy issues & it worked well. TIA. -- elizabeth (in australia) mum to DS1 "B" (almost 4 yrs) & DS2 "gorgey" (9.5 mths) "In raising my children, I have lost my mind but found my soul." --Lisa T. Shepherd |
#9
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Q: allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
FlowerGirl wrote:
I'm looking for anyone with real information on this (as in personal experience, journal references etc) Firstly, there is a gastroenterologist, a paed. and a LC with particular experience in food allergy all giving different advice. I've done what synopsis I can, but I probably have not got this 100% right .. A friend of mine has a 7.5 mo DD who has had an ulcerated colon since either a) 3 weeks pp when my friend had 3 lots of different ABs due to what was thought to be an infected c-section wound (which turned out to be an irritation to a stitch) ... and this is what the gastroenterologist thinks happened ,.... or b) from birth - her family have a history of gut problems with the older DD and the grandmother both having some degree of irritable gut throughout life (but these "problems" have never been checked to see if they're allergies etc ... the grandmother has only been checked for colon cancer). At any rate, the baby has been exclusively bf thus far, and my friend has kept a food diary and removed pretty much everything from her diet that could possibly cause a problem irritating the gut lining the foods she is eating a lamb, chicken, rockmelon, watermelon, occasional apple, sugar, salt, pumpkin, zucchini ... and I think that's about it. No dairy. No grains at all (even rice was causing an issue). So at 7.5 mo, the gastroenterologist has suggested that neocate formula may be the way forward as it seems that the elimination diet has not really helped the problem and there aren't a whole lot extra foods my friend can cut out. I've been backing bf, and my friend has talked to the LC plus consultants from the ABA, but is at a point where she just doesn't know what to do. She wants to bf, but the gastroenterologist suspects that this is part the problem (don't ask me why I'm just repeating what she told my friend). At this point in time, I think she wants to at least try to see if the neocate will make a difference and is planning to do trial of this whilst using a pump to maintain her supply so she can switch back if there's no improvement. Personally I'm always going to be pro-bf, but I also think you gotta know when a situation is so medically different from the norm that other solutions may need consideration. That's why I'm asking here in case anybody else has some specific insights into what might be a way forward. Amanda the first thing that springs to mind is coeliac disease (sp?). has she been tested for it? some of those foods she is eating are quite high in natural chemicals (salicylates, amines etc) so if we are talking intolerence, that could be the problem. the book "friendly food" by rpa hospital allergy unit has comprehensive info about a low chemical elimination diet. you can read a bit he http://www.cs.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/ from my allergist, the list of low natural chemical foods a babmoo shoots, brussel sprouts, cabbage, celery, chives, choko, dried beans, dried peas, green beans, leek, lentils, iceberg lettuce, mungbean sprouts, white peeled potatp, red cabbage, shallot, swede, pear (ripe peeled), pear (canned in sugar syrup), beef, chicken (no skin), eggs, fish (fresh, white) lamb, rabbit, sausage casing & veal. is she using oil to cook? what is she drinking? just water? is she sure forbidden foods are not sneaking in or is she having any medication? even humble vitamins can have things she shouldn't be having. even foods on her list can be allergenic. DS1 is allergic to both pumpkin & rockmelon. HTH. -- elizabeth (in australia) mum to DS1 "B" (almost 4 yrs) & DS2 "gorgey" (9.5 mths) "In raising my children, I have lost my mind but found my soul." --Lisa T. Shepherd |
#10
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allergies, gut problems and Neocate Vs breastmilk
"Gorgon Park" wrote in message oups.com... FlowerGirl wrote: "Ulcerative Colitis" is the Dx. Unfortunately specific cause for this case hasn't been found yet. The gastro's assumption is that the bub is still reacting to something in the bm. Is the mom or baby on any types of medication? I always forgot to check labels for medications when I was doing my elimination diet, because I don't think of these things as "food". Also, vitamins, calcium pills, etc have to be checked. This usually requires a phone call to the manufacturer as they are not required to list non-medicinal ingredients on these products. Nothing else. The ABs were short term and immediately pp and they may have caused the problem. Actually, getting enough vitamins and minerals on the restricted diet is one of my friend's concerns but she isn't taking any supplements or meds. The foods the Mum is eating are from trial and error, food diary, advice from the gastroenterologist and LC with allergy specialisation. I listed them in the OP - there's not more than about 8 foods on the list. I contacted her Re the salt and sugar aspects last night and as they are the only non whole-foods left in the diet, however the salt is sea salt but she's going to cut both salt and sugar for a week. There also may be a genetic aspect for metabolism of carbohydrates so the sugar may be a problem there. snip The other aspect here is that the first daughter had similar symptoms that went away after she was weaned at 13 months. This wasn't medically investigated though although my friend did cut gluten and dairy from her diet at the time. According my daughter's gastro, some kids are just super sensitive and no cause is ever found for the irritated gut, but they grow out of the sensitivity around 1 year. That would be about the same time frame as the older sibling in this case. I agree - some things like this seem to be resolved over time anyway. Actually both my kids could never tolerate cows milk until well after they were 1 yo. DD was about 18mo and DS is only now able to drink cows milk without effect now (22 mo) ... but his main "dairy" source is still me Of course, he would only recommend leaving the irritation "untreated" if the baby is otherwise healthy, gaining weight, etc. That is like this bub. I guess it is just a matter of "reading the baby" and deciding what is best in each case. Formula was pushed by my daughter's gastro after she turned 6 months, and in hindsight, it is a good thing that we stuck with the breastfeeding, as the formula he was suggesting (Nutramagen?) had corn syrup solids as the first ingredient, and it turned out she was allergic to corn. I hope it all works out for them and, whatever she chooses, the baby is and stays healthy. Your suggestion of checking teh salt and the sugar may be really useful. She also just learnt of a family thing where "carbohydrates aren't diggested propperly" (but what she means by this I don't know). Still on the bm at this stage so that's a plus. Also - I know I'm not a medical Dr, but sometimes I wonder ... everything I've read seems to suggest that breastfeeding provides some protection against ulcerative colitis. Amanda |
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