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#11
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Your right, conception does not equal birth, but there would be no
birth if it wasn't for conception. I refuse to accept that men can run around not taking responsibility for their own birth control and then demand that a pregnancy which results from their willfull negligence be terminated simply because they all of a sudden have to pay. Take responsibility from the get go, or don't jump in the sack. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I won't accept this last minute scape goat behavior from EITHER sex. |
#12
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wrote in message oups.com... Your right, conception does not equal birth, but there would be no birth if it wasn't for conception. I refuse to accept that men can run around not taking responsibility for their own birth control and then demand that a pregnancy which results from their willfull negligence be terminated simply because they all of a sudden have to pay. Take responsibility from the get go, or don't jump in the sack. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I won't accept this last minute scape goat behavior from EITHER sex. Whether or nor you accept it, the law of the land is that women do not have to accept responsibility for their actions that result in pregnancy yet men do *if* the mother decides to give birth *and* inform him of the birth, sometimes years later. Phil #3 |
#13
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I have to agree with charlotte on principle here. I only ever hear
the argument of having equal rights in this regard from men who have been forced into fatherhood through a result of poor planning. I have yet to hear from one father who wanted to be a father complain that they were unable to force their partner to abort the pregancy. I also have yet to hear from men who are not fathers, and are responsible adults, they are being treated unfairly in this regard. So far the only people I have ever heard complain about this part of life are the ones who feel that were somehow screwed over. Yet they were willing partner in the bedroom. On the whole adoption issue though. If the mother does put the child up for the adoption, she is right in saying that as a father you have every claim to that child. And can even go as far as to making her pay child support to help raise her child. But the heart of the matter is simple to me. No sperm donation, no pregnacy, no birth of a child that you are responsible for. And I have had sex with women on birth control, and I knew they were as I was in the room when she recieved their Depo shot. And I still chose to wear a condom, and she also chose to use a diaphram. Now we both understood that there was still a slim chance that a child could be created as a result of our actions. Luckly none was as we were both in College at the time. But part of the fun of sex is the inate risk involved. If you take the time to make responsible choices in reproductive matters, i.e. not allowing your sperm to be given to anyone by any means until your ready to part with it. Your not going to produce a child that you don't want. I might of missed the day in Bio Class that taught about a womaning becoming pregnant without sperm. I know I was there for learning about Worms having A-Sexual reproduction. But I didn't know women could do it, and then just randomly pick the guy and have the DNA prove it was them... Hmm.. I might have to go back an re-read my Bio Books... SpiderHam77 |
#14
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SpiderHam77 wrote: I have to agree with charlotte on principle here. I only ever hear the argument of having equal rights in this regard from men who have been forced into fatherhood through a result of poor planning. I have yet to hear from one father who wanted to be a father complain that they were unable to force their partner to abort the pregancy. http://www.glennsacks.com/pennsylvan...rtion_case.htm Now you have. Remember, just because you haven't heard about something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. |
#15
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wrote in message oups.com... Your right, conception does not equal birth, but there would be no birth if it wasn't for conception. I refuse to accept that men can run around not taking responsibility for their own birth control. There is no such thing as "birth control" for men......only women have that option, and then demand that a pregnancy which results from their willfull negligence be terminated simply because they all of a sudden have to pay. Nobody said anything about demanding pregnancy termination.......you arrived at that conclusion through your own ignorance. Women have the sole and unilateral choice in determining whether a conception results in a birth. Why do you not think women should be responsible for their sole and unilateral choices? Take responsibility from the get go, or don't jump in the sack. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I won't accept this last minute scape goat behavior from EITHER sex. Then you are anti abortion? |
#16
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"SpiderHam77" wrote in message oups.com... I have to agree with charlotte on principle here. I only ever hear the argument of having equal rights in this regard from men who have been forced into fatherhood through a result of poor planning. I have yet to hear from one father who wanted to be a father complain that they were unable to force their partner to abort the pregancy. I also have yet to hear from men who are not fathers, and are responsible adults, they are being treated unfairly in this regard. So far the only people I have ever heard complain about this part of life are the ones who feel that were somehow screwed over. Yet they were willing partner in the bedroom. On the whole adoption issue though. If the mother does put the child up for the adoption, she is right in saying that as a father you have every claim to that child. And can even go as far as to making her pay child support to help raise her child. But the heart of the matter is simple to me. No sperm donation, no pregnacy, no birth of a child that you are responsible for. You fail the simple logic test.......the only reason a birth occurs is because of the sole and unilateral choices made by the woman. Woman should be responsible for their sole and unilateral choices. And I have had sex with women on birth control, and I knew they were as I was in the room when she recieved their Depo shot. And I still chose to wear a condom, and she also chose to use a diaphram. Non sequitar. Now we both understood that there was still a slim chance that a child could be created as a result of our actions. Luckly none was as we were both in College at the time. But part of the fun of sex is the inate risk involved. The only action that could result in a child being born would be through the sole and unilateral choices of the woman. If you take the time to make responsible choices in reproductive matters, i.e. not allowing your sperm to be given to anyone by any means until your ready to part with it. Your not going to produce a child that you don't want. A meaningless point, since rape victims have been forced to pay child support. I might of missed the day in Bio Class that taught about a womaning becoming pregnant without sperm. I know I was there for learning about Worms having A-Sexual reproduction. But I didn't know women could do it, and then just randomly pick the guy and have the DNA prove it was them... Hmm.. I might have to go back an re-read my Bio Books... Maybe you should pick up a book on logical thinking. SpiderHam77 |
#17
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I have only heard of 1 man so far in this entire discussion that was
raped. And he was a minor. See for a man to be raped it's alot different. A man has to be physically aroused, ie become errect in order to ejaculate sperm. I don't know about you, but I can not recall the last time I ever heard of a grown man being raped against his will. Being forced to have sex when he was not ready to. Becasue here is the thing if you didn't want to have sex, you would not become errect. I don't know about you, but I don't walk around errect all day. Usually only when I'm aroused by something. Your right a birth only occurs through the actions of a woman. It is her choice if she carries it to term. You win your badge for the day. But women cannot become pregnant in the first place without being provided with sperm. Or a fertilized egg being put into her. But the egg needs to be fertilized with sperm. To me I look at the whole birthing a child thing like a contract. You both entered into an agreement by virtue of having sex. And now your complaining about the context of the contract after the fact. Well in my world of contracts. Unless you were duped into something you had no idea. And well if you don't understand that pregnacy can result from having sex, then your either some Red Neck Hill Billy who also believes you can catch gonera from a toilet seat. Or your just plain dumb. And none of you in here that write seem to be dumb. So that's why I'm having trouble understanding why this is so difficult understand for alot of you. SpiderHam77 |
#18
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--http://www.glennsacks.com/pennsylvania_abortion_case.htm
--Now you have. --Remember, just because you haven't heard about something doesn't mean i--t doesn't exist. Okay I read this article. And I still have trouble understanding how this guy wanted a child and is now complaining. All it says is "Would be father." And then it goes onto explain how the system is treating him unfair because she had an abortion. I didn't see anywhere that he wanted her to have one. I think it's great that he wanted to be dad. Here is my suggestion... Try again with a different girl. My Comment and I'll make it again, so maybe you can find some evidence to try and bash it again. I have not heard of any man who wants to be a father complaining that they were unable to force a woman into an abortion. And also fathers once becoming fathers, complaining that they were treated unfairly in this regard.. Try again. SpiderHam77 |
#19
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I plead guilty to misinterpretation. I initially read it as being a
Father (now) who wanted to become a father (then), but couldn't, because the woman decided against his wishes and aborted the child. My bad. |
#20
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No if thats the way you interpreted it.. then you got it right.
Execept he is not a father right now due to the actions of the woman and going through with an abortion. However it still doesn't stand up as an example of a Man who is currently a father by choice, and is complaining that they had no say in the matter. SpiderHam77 |
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