Andrew Wakefield & MMR Controversy

"Mark" wrote in message
ps.com...
Peter Bowditch wrote:


Note to Jan - that is what you do when someone points out a mistake.

No. When someone you *like* points out a mistake they made, you say,
"God bless you -- keep strong."

Who says that?

When someone with whom you disagree points out a mistake they made, you
say, "LIAR, YOU LYES MADDE YU OUTT!!!"

lol. Say what?

Actually, when I say LIAR, it is when someone lies. Has nothing whatsoever
to do with disagreeing.
But--keep telling that LIE, LIAR.

You might note one of your *gang* calls his facts, errors.
Of course you do not.


Just a clarification so Jan can continue her modus operandi
uninterrupted.

Mark, MD

Get over your obsession with me. Not professional behavior doc.



--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

I am waiting to see if Mark, MD has anything to say.....................

"Jan Drew" wrote in message
news

"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote:


HCN wrote:
"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote in message
ups.com...

HCN wrote:
...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...061838,00.html ?

This article is very vague and obviously need more facts instead of
hype and scare tactics
Were these children vaccinated? I'm sure they were or they would
have
said that?...

They did say why they were NOT vaccinated.

My mistake - I didn't realize there were 4 pages to that article - just
read page one.
thanks for stimulating me to go back and look at how I could have
missed it.

Note to Jan - that is what you do when someone points out a mistake.

LOL!!! Get busy!!!!!

Btw, your buddy and shill (for you) calls his facts--errors.
--
Peter Bowditch

As for me, I have a standing record of admitting my mistakes--
and apologizing.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....6e24f9 8e9467

You can start he

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....a3ecd4c436975f

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....6d8b7b8db88af0
[that one--actually you should have started back in 2002]

I am waiting to see if Mark, MD has anything to say..................

"Jan Drew" wrote in message
. ..

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
news:53b_g.37$Wz2.2@trndny09...
Jan Drew wrote:

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
news:YdTZg.6574$IW6.3253@trndny01...
Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath wrote:
HCN wrote:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...061838,00.html ?
This article is very vague and obviously need more facts instead of
hype and scare tactics
You did not read the entire article. Tsk! Tsk! Tsk! Instead, you are
weaseling and bull****ting, just like the anti-vac lair you are.

Thanks for proving my prediction.

My-my I have just risen from the DEAD. I knew you couldn't do it!!

Thanks for proving BOTH predictions.



Sherri is not responding to me.

So?

*ahhhhhhh, I thought I recognized the name of Mark Probert
Thanks for the reminder*.

Don't remember that, Markey? Sure you do. Weasel,weasel, weasel.

If you wish to use anything in my posts
to challenge her gross misrepresentations and spin jobs, feel free to do
so.

How do I know that you did not read the entire article? Simple,
toots...your questions were answered...

Were these children vaccinated? I'm sure they were or they would have
said that?
Page 3: "The boys could not be vaccinated with the MMR jab because of
the drugs they were taking."

What other vaccines had they gotten right before this?
Considering that they were immunocompromised, not many, if any.

Does measles encephalopathy occur after measles vaccine far in the
future. Probably.
Do prove that idle conjecture....

Most complications from measles are the same
complications after a vaccine.
Do prove that idle conjecture...

What was their state of health? Nutritional status?
The article clearly addresses the issue of their state of health. Only
someone who did not read the article would pose that question.

Many questions.

If these children would have been under homeopathic treatment from the
time they were born, or soon thereafter, I would have treated them
long
before it had progressed to to this. They wouldn't have been
vaccinated and would have immune systems that were intact.
No, toots, these kids would either have been dead from kidney disease
or immunocompromised like they were.

But too
little information to give you details.
Not so.

If they showed up on my door in this condition, I could treat the
symptom picture but also send them to casualty for other lifesaving
measures, besides homeopathy.
What caused this problem is that they caught measles from someone who
was not immunized, thus defeating herd immunity.

"This would not have been of too much concern provided the "herd
immunity" was high - in other words as long as most other children were
vaccinated. That would stop diseases getting a foothold in the first
place, keeping the risk of infection minimal."

"But as vaccination rates began to slip after the publication of
Wakefield's research and the subsequent flurry of sensational
headlines, the risk to both boys increased. In Southwark, the borough
where Joe lives, the take-up rates of MMR dropped to among the lowest
in Britain."

"Joe, who was discharged from hospital at the end of August, is
unlikely to regain the full use of his left leg and has partial
paralysis of his tongue and throat.

Matthew, who was not discharged from hospital until December 21, is
more severely disabled. His optic nerves were permanently scarred by
the virus and he is now registered blind.

He is also virtually confined to a wheelchair and has had to drop out
of his mainstream school. Karen said: "Before he had measles, he could
go out, he could play football, he could do what he wanted."

Lay this right on the doorstep of Andy Wakefield and the vaccination
liars, like you.

You have the nerve to call anyone a liar.

Poor Mark. The proven liar. MANY times over.

"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"Jan Drew" wrote:


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
. ..
"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote:


HCN wrote:
"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote in message
ups.com...

HCN wrote:
...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...061838,00.html ?

This article is very vague and obviously need more facts instead of
hype and scare tactics
Were these children vaccinated? I'm sure they were or they would
have
said that?...

They did say why they were NOT vaccinated.

My mistake - I didn't realize there were 4 pages to that article - just
read page one.
thanks for stimulating me to go back and look at how I could have
missed it.

Note to Jan - that is what you do when someone points out a mistake.

LOL!!! Get busy!!!!!

Btw, your buddy and shill (for you) calls his facts--errors.
--
Peter Bowditch

As for me, I have a standing record of admitting my mistakes--
and apologizing.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....6e24f9 8e9467

You can start he

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....a3ecd4c436975f

No mistakes of mine there.

I see you cannot admit your mistakes.

You said:

There are four ways a person can get out of prison before completing a
sentence:


1. Die and be carried out in a box.
2. Have the conviction overturned or the sentence reduced to "time
served".
3. Be paroled.
4. Escape.

FACT: You were mistaken

Furthermore, You overlooked Mark Probert's judging and being cruel.


That's because you have a lot in common with him
Sad that.

Jan Drew wrote:
Wrong, the FACT is you are proclaiming who deserves abuse.


OK, so I am. They deserve it. Just like your buddy deserved to serve out
his entire sentence and, if he died in jail, too damn bad.
So what was Manuel in prison for, Jan?

My answer to that has been given.. But--you know that.

Alan
Yurko only did seven years for bashing a baby to death, but Manuel did
nine. For what?


My answer to that has been given.. But--you know that.

Why do you keep asking? It is NOYB.



http://groups.google.com/group/misc....6d8b7b8db88af0
[that one--actually you should have started back in 2002]

No mistakes of mine there, Jan.

R E R E A T E D L IA R.



You were the one who mentioned Ben
Kolb 90-something times in a single month as a means of demonising
medicine. In fact, if I remember correctly, one of your earliest
exploitations of the tragic death of Ben was to divert discussion away
from Alan Yurko's crime.

You do not remember correctly--and are too lazy to go back and look it up.

A habit of Mark Probert, btw.



--
Peter Bowditch

"Jan Drew" wrote:


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
.. .
"Jan Drew" wrote:


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote:


HCN wrote:
"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote in message
ups.com...

HCN wrote:
...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...061838,00.html ?

This article is very vague and obviously need more facts instead of
hype and scare tactics
Were these children vaccinated? I'm sure they were or they would
have
said that?...

They did say why they were NOT vaccinated.

My mistake - I didn't realize there were 4 pages to that article - just
read page one.
thanks for stimulating me to go back and look at how I could have
missed it.

Note to Jan - that is what you do when someone points out a mistake.

LOL!!! Get busy!!!!!

Btw, your buddy and shill (for you) calls his facts--errors.
--
Peter Bowditch

As for me, I have a standing record of admitting my mistakes--
and apologizing.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....6e24f9 8e9467

You can start he

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....a3ecd4c436975f

No mistakes of mine there.

I see you cannot admit your mistakes.

You said:

There are four ways a person can get out of prison before completing a
sentence:


1. Die and be carried out in a box.
2. Have the conviction overturned or the sentence reduced to "time
served".
3. Be paroled.
4. Escape.

FACT: You were mistaken

So how did Manuel get out of prison after nine years if it wasn't for
one of these reasons? Enlighten me. Show me my mistake.


Furthermore, You overlooked Mark Probert's judging and being cruel.


That's because you have a lot in common with him
Sad that.

Jan Drew wrote:
Wrong, the FACT is you are proclaiming who deserves abuse.


OK, so I am. They deserve it. Just like your buddy deserved to serve out
his entire sentence and, if he died in jail, too damn bad.
So what was Manuel in prison for, Jan?

My answer to that has been given.. But--you know that.

Remind me. What was he in prison for? It won't hurt you to tell me
again.


Alan
Yurko only did seven years for bashing a baby to death, but Manuel did
nine. For what?


My answer to that has been given.. But--you know that.

Remind me.


Why do you keep asking? It is NOYB.

It is a matter of public record why people are imprisoned. You will
not be breaking any confidences by telling. Also, if it is "NOYB", why
did you give the answer in the past. If you gave the answer, of
course, which you didn't.




http://groups.google.com/group/misc....6d8b7b8db88af0
[that one--actually you should have started back in 2002]

No mistakes of mine there, Jan.

R E R E A T E D L IA R.



You were the one who mentioned Ben
Kolb 90-something times in a single month as a means of demonising
medicine. In fact, if I remember correctly, one of your earliest
exploitations of the tragic death of Ben was to divert discussion away
from Alan Yurko's crime.

You do not remember correctly--and are too lazy to go back and look it up.

Do you want me to go back and look? If I am correct will you apologise
for exploiting the death of Ben Kolb to demonise real medicine?


A habit of Mark Probert, btw.



--
Peter Bowditch

--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"Jan Drew" wrote:


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
. ..
"Jan Drew" wrote:


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
m...
"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote:


HCN wrote:
"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote in message
ups.com...

HCN wrote:
...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...061838,00.html ?

This article is very vague and obviously need more facts instead
of
hype and scare tactics
Were these children vaccinated? I'm sure they were or they would
have
said that?...

They did say why they were NOT vaccinated.

My mistake - I didn't realize there were 4 pages to that article -
just
read page one.
thanks for stimulating me to go back and look at how I could have
missed it.

Note to Jan - that is what you do when someone points out a mistake.

LOL!!! Get busy!!!!!

Btw, your buddy and shill (for you) calls his facts--errors.
--
Peter Bowditch

As for me, I have a standing record of admitting my mistakes--
and apologizing.

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....6e24f9 8e9467

You can start he

http://groups.google.com/group/misc....a3ecd4c436975f

No mistakes of mine there.

I see you cannot admit your mistakes.

You said:

There are four ways a person can get out of prison before completing a
sentence:


1. Die and be carried out in a box.
2. Have the conviction overturned or the sentence reduced to "time
served".
3. Be paroled.
4. Escape.

FACT: You were mistaken

So how did Manuel get out of prison after nine years if it wasn't for
one of these reasons? Enlighten me. Show me my mistake.

You have already been enlighten--but--you know that.

Now--are you ready to admit your mistake? You are batting zero.
Best to quit while you are behind.


Furthermore, You overlooked Mark Probert's judging and being cruel.


That's because you have a lot in common with him
Sad that.

Jan Drew wrote:
Wrong, the FACT is you are proclaiming who deserves abuse.


OK, so I am. They deserve it. Just like your buddy deserved to serve out
his entire sentence and, if he died in jail, too damn bad.
So what was Manuel in prison for, Jan?

My answer to that has been given.. But--you know that.

Remind me.

No. Go back and remind yourself, lazy.

[snippage]



Alan
Yurko only did seven years for bashing a baby to death, but Manuel did
nine. For what?


My answer to that has been given.. But--you know that.

Remind me.

ZZzz. See above. Harasser. Get a life.

snip stuff that has aleady been addressed, time, and time again


Why do you keep asking? It is NOYB.






http://groups.google.com/group/misc....6d8b7b8db88af0
[that one--actually you should have started back in 2002]

No mistakes of mine there, Jan.

R E R E A T E D L IA R.



You were the one who mentioned Ben
Kolb 90-something times in a single month as a means of demonising
medicine. In fact, if I remember correctly, one of your earliest
exploitations of the tragic death of Ben was to divert discussion away
from Alan Yurko's crime.

You do not remember correctly--and are too lazy to go back and look it up.



A habit of Mark Probert, btw.



--
Peter Bowditch

--

Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath wrote:
HCN wrote:
"Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath"
wrote in message
ups.com...
HCN wrote:
...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...061838,00.html ?
This article is very vague and obviously need more facts instead of
hype and scare tactics
Were these children vaccinated? I'm sure they were or they would have
said that?...
They did say why they were NOT vaccinated.

My mistake - I didn't realize there were 4 pages to that article - just
read page one.

Sure, Sheri, sure. If you read the article for understanding, you would
have seen that the page 1 required a page 2. If you make such
fundamental mistakes reading a simple newspaper article there is no
doubt that your interpretational skills need work.

thanks for stimulating me to go back and look at how I could have
missed it. Continuing to read the rest of the story.
Though I do wonder the true story - kind of like the show on BBC on
Wednesday that showed a baby who had pneumococcal meningitis who
recovered and then died of meningitis a month later - they didn't
happen to mention that it was Meningitis C????

Sheri, you attempt at wiggling out of your original comments based on
your incorrect interpretation of the article, which you did not read, is
utterly pathetic.

Of course you would "wonder about the true story" since you have no
rational means to refute the true story. A very feeble attempt at
raising doubt in the minds of the gullible.

And the other issue is that you don't sacrifice populations to protect
other populations. That is hardly how it is in a free society. It is
tragic that these children were affected by measles, but who.

And how do they know he 'got measles' from someone unvaccinated? Many
vaccinated get measles also. And it is a live vaccine, possibly shed
and they picked it up.

With the incident occurring in a region where the uptake is so low...

These articles are great in inciting fear and sympathy and blame. But
life is terminal. I'm sorry for these children, but also sorry for the
thousands and thousands who are vaccine injured.

"Matthew was born in Maidstone, Kent, on April 28, 1990. He seemed a
healthy baby, but at four weeks he suffered kidney failure and was
rushed to hospital." - had he just been vaccinated? Or antibiotics or
drugs mom had during pregnancy or delivery.

Your question is answered in the next paragraph you quote. You really
are a anti-vac lair of the worst sort.

" Like Matthew he had a genetic kidney disorder and suffered renal
failure when he was eight months old" - when did they discover this and
had he been vaccinated for other things? Or antibiotics or drugs mom
had during pregnancy or delivery.

We will never know as these stories are always have an agenda

Yes, the agenda is to promote living, undisabled, children.

And herd immunity has never been proven for vaccinated populations. It
is a known factor for disease in a population but never for vaccinated
populations, has it been proved

Your lack of reading comprehension has been revealed. This is why you
cannot answer the questions directly, and why you are trying to spam this
newsgroup for your "homeopathy" courses.

Oh, yeah right, like anyone like the likes of you all would sign up for
my courses.
Sharing info as I always do and have for 10+years online about the
dangers of vaccines.
Some ofyou are who keep asking me about homeopaty

You placed an "MA" behind your name. In the USA that indicates a "Master of
Art", not a typical degree for any medical professional. Your responses
seem to indicated a very old and not very good education (perhaps you were a
nurse over 30 years ago)... It is almost like you bought your "MA" from a
diploma mill. Though usually people by PhDs (much like the guy who _Women
are from Venus, Men are from Mars_)... but you only have an "MA". Did you
fail the application for your mail-order degree?

MA in Clinical Health Education from an accredited university

Care to name that university?

Now its your turn to read everything that I have posted and try to
understand, but that rarely happens in these kinds of places. No one
really wants to read and look at their sacred cows. I too was where
you were, once upon a time, believing all that had been told me about
medicine and drugs and the wonders of allopathy. But cracks in the
walls started to appear and instead of closing down as so many of you
have, holding on for dear life to your beliefs, I decided to see what
might be on the other side of the cracking wall. I hope it doesn't
take a tragedy for you to do so also, as it has for many parents and
physicians and nurses.

Take care

by staying away from

Sheri

In message .com, Sheri Nakken RN, MA, Hahnemannian Homeopath wrote:

And herd immunity has never been proven for vaccinated populations. It
is a known factor for disease in a population but never for vaccinated
populations, has it been proved

Well, if you set the bar high enough nuclear fission has also never
been "proved." The really fun part is watching the contortions
used to raise and lower the bar depending on the subject.

--
begin signature.exe
A:*Because*it*messes*up*the*order*in*which*people* normally*read*text.
Q:*Why*is*top-posting*such*a*bad*thing?
A:*Top-posting.
Q:*What*is*the*most*annoying*thing*on*usenet?