Good News/Bad News?

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...
"Marko Proberto" wrote
Good news: With this vaccination, you (probably) won't get measles,
mumps, or rubella!
Bad news: You're liable to get hepatitis C (or hep B, or AIDS)!
One in three injections in poor nations is unsafe
In poor nations.

Unfortunately, rich countries with loose immigration policies are also
affected. HBV is only common in countries like China that vaccinate
with dirty needles. Then immigrants from those countries flood into
the USA, where health authorities decided that it is more politically
correct to vaccinate all newborns, regardless of risk.

So, should we tighten our immigration policies? Who will cut our grass, pick
our fruit and vegetables, clean our offices and homes and watch our children
(you know, those meanial jobs that are usually done by immigrants)? And what
about all of the people in the US who are citizens whose ancestors
immigrated in say the last 500 years? Should they go back?

Vaccine Policy FAQ
http://www.mindspring.com/~schlafly/vac/vaccfaq.htm

You should rename this a FMQ - frequently misanswered questions.

For example, you state that pediatricians usually do not know more than what
is stated on the label. Unlike you, pediatricians have taken care of kids
with vaccine preventable diseases, answered questions from parents about
vaccines before and after vaccines were given, and had training vaccination
during medical school and residency and read about vaccines in journals and
other good sources.

Another example is that you state that pediatricians are only following the
laws. THere is no law that says that a pediatrician has to vaccinate anyone.

Another example. You state that the AAP and other physician organizations
agreed to endorse schedules determined by the federal government. This is
bull****. They only endorse a schedule after they look at it and determine
that is is appropriate.

You state the feds do get some advice from pediatricians on the ACIP, and
the AAP usually sends a couple of non-voting observers, but that's all.

But that is not all. The last recommendation from the ACIP was for the live
Influenza vaccine. ACIP Influenza working group who is responsible for the
report included a member of the AAP, a member from the ACOG (the OB/GYN
group), a member from the ACP (intermal med), a member from the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufactuers of AMerica, a member from the
infectious diseases society of america, two from the AAFP, as well as other
members.

ACIP included as voting memebrs: the chairman, who is a pediatrician, and at
least one other pediatrician (in both cases, they were affiliated with a
children's hospital). The other voting members included people from other
hospitals, universities, and community organizations. With one exception,
they all have MDs. So your statement that pediatricians don't have input
into the vaccine policy, when at least one voting member and the chairman
are pediatricans is blatently false. In addition, the AAP has its own
committee of experts that reviews the ACIP recommendations. And, as you note
on your page of misanswered questions, the AAP can and does disagree with
the official recommendations.

You also state that physicians no longer take the Hiipocratic Oath. This is
wrong. I do not know if all medical schools have grads take the oath, but at
least the majority do. It may not be the oath that you would want them to
take, but it is a version of the Hippocratic Oath. Besides, the Hippocratic
Oath is an anacronism. It states that physicians may not take out bladder
stones (gee, many urologists would disagree with that).

You also state that all states have laws requiring children to be
vaccinated. This is false. NOt one state requires children to be vaccinated.

Your lies continue.

Jeff

"Roger Schlafly" wrote in message
t...

Unfortunately, rich countries with loose immigration policies are also
affected. HBV is only common in countries like China that vaccinate
with dirty needles. Then immigrants from those countries flood into
the USA, where health authorities decided that it is more politically
correct to vaccinate all newborns, regardless of risk.

Impressive - So much misinformation crammed into so little space.

The US, and other developed countries, have plenty of Hep B. US adults are
doing a fine job of passing it around to each other without the help of
additional cases from China.

In third world countries the vast majority of hep B is passed during sex and
childbirth, not needles.

The semi-true fact that you are misstating is that NOW the US CHILDREN
mainly at risk are immigrants from countries, like China, with higher
infection rates. What you neglect to mention is that this has only come to
pass since the widespread childhood vaccination of US kids (before that
there was endemic transmission) and that it only applies to kids (it has
never been the case for adults).

--
CBI, MD

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"JG" wrote in message
t...
"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"JG" wrote in message
...

Good news: With this vaccination, you (probably) won't get
measles,
mumps, or rubella!

Bad news: You're liable to get hepatitis C (or hep B, or AIDS)!

From the way I read the article, they are talking about needles
used
to give
medications, not vaccines.

The article doesn't specify *what* is being injected. As you are
(probably? ....well, *maybe*) aware, there's been speculation for
years
that AIDS, in Africa, has been spread by the use of contaminated
needles
in the delivery of vaccines.

Speculation. now that is helpful. Ironically, according to the BMJ
article,
injection practices in sub-Saharin Africa than parts of the
middle-east and
south Asia.

HUH? Care to restate this meaningless jibberish? ("Injections in
sub-Saharan Africa ..." *WHAT* "....than parts of the Middle East and
South Asia"?)

So regardless of whether AIDS was spread by contaiminated
needles in the delivery of vaccines in Africa, the use of contaminated
needles is much less. But it is still too high.

BTW, the vast majority of the people who read this won't be in 3rd
world
countries, so they won't danger.

For heaven's sake, don't you EVER proofread what you write before you
hit "send"?!?

Oh, so *now* you're dropping your liberal, "we're really *all*
brothers," "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the
problem" mantel? Ooookaaaay. Whatever. g

Gee, I don't remember saying that.

Oh, please. Your political leanings ("I like Howard Dean"**) are quite
clear.

However, the reality of this is that we can speak about needles and
AIDS and
vaccines and whatever, and the people in Africa will be much less
likely to
read this than the people in the US and other English speaking
countries.
The vast majority of readers of this forum are unlikely to get used
needles
during the injection of vaccines.

Hey, with everything/everyone "just a plane ride away" (as the CDC loves
to point out), it's a GLOBAL problem, isn't it? We're all jes' one big,
happy planet/family now, ain't we? Are we not our brother's keeper?

I don't see how realizing that most people in 3rd world countries,
especially in the places where contaminated needles would be reused,
has
anything to do with my liberal views.

Funny, I thought most liberals supported such organizations as WHO and
were proponents of the New World Order...

Besides, this does not hide the fact that the article was about
"medications," and not vaccines.

Again, the article didn't specify for WHAT the needles were used.

I realize that this *may* apply to
vaccines, about the article clearly is not about that. Instead, the
issue
was studied seperately by the WHO.

(Pssst, Jeff: Go to http://www.spellcheck.net or
http://spellcheck.freeurl.com before posting.)

So you were caught fear-mongering. PERIOD.

No. That's Mark P.'s baseless accusation. (Now you're "me too-ing"
*him* ...too funny.) Nevertheless, are you asserting that rising HVB,
HVC, and AIDS cases/rates in Africa *shouldn't* concern those in the
"industrialized" world?

Copyrighted article illegally copied deleted

Adequate attribution was made. Get off your high horse.

Adequate attribution does not give you the right to copy something
without
permission.

Feel free to report me to Reuters. (I rather think they'd appreciate my
directing people to their Web site.)

JG

**Put a Confederate flag in your pickup yet? g

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"JG" wrote in message
...
"Marko Proberto" wrote in message
t...

"JG" wrote in message
...
Good news: With this vaccination, you (probably) won't get
measles,
mumps, or rubella!

Bad news: You're liable to get hepatitis C (or hep B, or AIDS)!

from www.reutershealth.com, "Health eLine," 11/7/03:
One in three injections in poor nations is unsafe

In poor nations.

Shame on your scaremongering.

Shame on your continual "me too-ing." Riding Jeff's coattails?
Tsk.
You're capable of original thought. (Aren't you?)

I believe Mark's came to the same conclusions I did. If you notice, I
did
not use term "scaremongering." And it was clear from what you posted
this
applied to poor nations. I have no doubt that Mark is not riding my
coattails, but often (but not always) comes to the same conclusion as
I do.

Perhaps you should not be so surprised that smart people who think
independently often come to the same conclusions.

Interesting how you can attack Mark, but you chose not to defend
yourself
against his comments. Attack which weasels are good at. (Please don't
forget
to proof read what I have written and attack my spelling and use of
English,
another useful diversionary tactic)

Your mangling of the language (words, grammar) speaks volumes. (I did
"attack" you in another post. Not terribly challenging; indeed, rather
like shooting fish in a barrel.)

JG

On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 22:22:01 GMT, "JG" wrote:

"Jeff" wrote in message
...

Speculation. now that is helpful. Ironically, according to the BMJ
article, injection practices in sub-Saharin Africa than parts of
the middle-east and south Asia.

HUH? Care to restate this meaningless jibberish? ("Injections in
sub-Saharan Africa ..." *WHAT* "....than parts of the Middle East and
South Asia"?)

Reminds me of Jane Curtin on Weekend Update on Saturday Night Live in
the late 1970's (not a direct quote):

"The U.S. State Department today said that China, Russia, Lithuania,
Spain, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and Israel."

Besides, this does not hide the fact that the article was about
"medications," and not vaccines.

Again, the article didn't specify for WHAT the needles were used.

I'm just curious what your purpose for posting the article was in the
first place. You and Roger have a habit of posting articles without
saying outright your opinion. Should we stop immunizing in third-world
countries?

PF

"JG" wrote in message
...
"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"JG" wrote in message
t...
"Jeff" wrote in message
...

"JG" wrote in message
...

Good news: With this vaccination, you (probably) won't get
measles,
mumps, or rubella!

Bad news: You're liable to get hepatitis C (or hep B, or AIDS)!

From the way I read the article, they are talking about needles
used
to give
medications, not vaccines.

The article doesn't specify *what* is being injected. As you are
(probably? ....well, *maybe*) aware, there's been speculation for
years
that AIDS, in Africa, has been spread by the use of contaminated
needles
in the delivery of vaccines.

Speculation. now that is helpful. Ironically, according to the BMJ
article,
injection practices in sub-Saharin Africa than parts of the
middle-east and
south Asia.

HUH? Care to restate this meaningless jibberish? ("Injections in
sub-Saharan Africa ..." *WHAT* "....than parts of the Middle East and
South Asia"?)

In parts of the Middle East and South Asia, the rate of reusing needles is
higher than in sub-Sahara Africa.
(...)

Oh, so *now* you're dropping your liberal, "we're really *all*
brothers," "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the
problem" mantel? Ooookaaaay. Whatever. g

Gee, I don't remember saying that.

Oh, please. Your political leanings ("I like Howard Dean"**) are quite
clear.

Please do not put words in my mouth. That I like Howard Dean does not mean
that I agree with everything he says or with every liberal position or
Democratic position. I have voted for many Republicans and will vote for
more.

However, the reality of this is that we can speak about needles and
AIDS and
vaccines and whatever, and the people in Africa will be much less
likely to
read this than the people in the US and other English speaking
countries.
The vast majority of readers of this forum are unlikely to get used
needles
during the injection of vaccines.

Hey, with everything/everyone "just a plane ride away" (as the CDC loves
to point out), it's a GLOBAL problem, isn't it? We're all jes' one big,
happy planet/family now, ain't we? Are we not our brother's keeper?

Nice weasel move. Unfortunately, our most of our brothers and sisters in
Africa won't be able to read this. The people who will read this are almost
exclusively from the developed nations. The vast majority of the people who
will be reading this live in areas where needles are not reused.

I don't see how realizing that most people in 3rd world countries,
especially in the places where contaminated needles would be reused,
has
anything to do with my liberal views.

Funny, I thought most liberals supported such organizations as WHO and
were proponents of the New World Order...

I support WHO. I do not know what you mean by New World Order.

Besides, this does not hide the fact that the article was about
"medications," and not vaccines.

Again, the article didn't specify for WHAT the needles were used.

I realize that this *may* apply to
vaccines, about the article clearly is not about that. Instead, the
issue
was studied seperately by the WHO.

(Pssst, Jeff: Go to http://www.spellcheck.net or
http://spellcheck.freeurl.com before posting.)

So you were caught fear-mongering. PERIOD.

No. That's Mark P.'s baseless accusation. (Now you're "me too-ing"
*him* ...too funny.) Nevertheless, are you asserting that rising HVB,
HVC, and AIDS cases/rates in Africa *shouldn't* concern those in the
"industrialized" world?

No. I am saying that people in the developed world don't need to worry about
getting HBV, AIDS, etc. from contaminated needles because contaminated
needles are not used in the developed world for immunizations or other
medications.

Copyrighted article illegally copied deleted

Adequate attribution was made. Get off your high horse.

Adequate attribution does not give you the right to copy something
without
permission.

Feel free to report me to Reuters. (I rather think they'd appreciate my
directing people to their Web site.)

I don't know if they would or would not.I mean additional traffic can
require additonal hardware and bandwidth. And if they don't get paid for it,
they don't gain from it. That is not my call.

However, the law is that you may not copy copyrighted material without
permission.

Jeff

JG

**Put a Confederate flag in your pickup yet? g

No. I have a car. I will not put a flag of any type on my car. The flags
fade, get dirty, torn, etc., really fast. I think this is disrespectful to
the flag. If I had a house, I would put a flag pole up and shine a light on
it, so it would be displayed properly.

I find the Confederate flag disrespectful to human rights, therefore, I
would not display it anywhere.

Jeff

"Jeff" wrote
Unfortunately, rich countries with loose immigration policies are also
affected. HBV is only common in countries like China that vaccinate
with dirty needles. Then immigrants from those countries flood into
the USA, where health authorities decided that it is more politically
correct to vaccinate all newborns, regardless of risk.
So, should we tighten our immigration policies?

Yes.

Who will cut our grass, pick
our fruit and vegetables, clean our offices and homes and watch our
children

We don't need HBV+ illegal aliens doing those things.

Vaccine Policy FAQ
http://www.mindspring.com/~schlafly/vac/vaccfaq.htm

"JG" wrote in message
...
"Marko Proberto" wrote in message
t...

"JG" wrote in message
...
Good news: With this vaccination, you (probably) won't get measles,
mumps, or rubella!

Bad news: You're liable to get hepatitis C (or hep B, or AIDS)!

from www.reutershealth.com, "Health eLine," 11/7/03:
One in three injections in poor nations is unsafe

In poor nations.

Shame on your scaremongering.

Shame on your continual "me too-ing." Riding Jeff's coattails? Tsk.
You're capable of original thought. (Aren't you?)

I post to original poster first, read replies second.

"JG" wrote in message
...
"Marko Proberto" wrote in message
t...

"JG" wrote in message
...
Good news: With this vaccination, you (probably) won't get measles,
mumps, or rubella!

Bad news: You're liable to get hepatitis C (or hep B, or AIDS)!

from www.reutershealth.com, "Health eLine," 11/7/03:
One in three injections in poor nations is unsafe

In poor nations.

Shame on your scaremongering.

Shame on your continual "me too-ing." Riding Jeff's coattails? Tsk.
You're capable of original thought. (Aren't you?)

And, great minds can think alike.....

(PF Riley) wrote in message

I'm just curious what your purpose for posting the article was in the
first place. You and Roger have a habit of posting articles without
saying outright your opinion. Should we stop immunizing in third-world
countries?

PF

Yes, but how would you thin them out so well otherwise? And gain
plaudits as you do it.

You have to use disposable needles like we do here.

Doesn't this WHO man know what the real agenda is.

john

http://www.whale.to/m/genocide.html

" My final conclusion after forty years or more in this business
[medicine] is that the unofficial policy of the World Health
Organization and the unoffical policy of the 'Save the Children's
Fund' and ... [other vaccine promoting] organizations is one of murder
and genocide. . . . I cannot see any other possible explanation. . . .
You cannot immunize sick children, malnourished children, and expect
to get away with it. You'll kill far more children than would have
died from natural infection."--Dr Kalokerinos (International Vaccine
Newsletter June 1995)

"But, at the highest levels of the medical cartel, vaccines are a top
priority because they cause a weakening of the immune system. I know
that may be hard to accept, but it's true. The medical cartel, at the
highest level, is not out to help people, it is out to harm them, to
weaken them. To kill them. At one point in my career, I had a long
conversation with a man who occupied a high government position in an
African nation. He told me that he was well aware of this. He told me
that WHO is a front for these depopulation interests."--Jon Rappoport
interview