HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)

x-no-archive:yes
"iphigenia" wrote:

Rosalie B. wrote:
The original thread that I saw had only two paragraphs to it and
medication use was not addressed in either paragraph. It was posted
to Newsgroups:

misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids,alt.parenting.s olutions,alt.support.breast
feeding,misc.kids.health

So? What does that have to do with thread drift?

What did I SAY it had to do with thread drift? I don't think I
mentioned thread drift. You are bringing it up - do you think it is a
justification?

I don't know what there was in the post originally, but given that
fragment, there is no reason to even bring up medications taken while
bf. As I scanned the thread I saw the bf nazis coming in and
castigating the OP for stopping bf and telling her that she can/should
start up again.

I NEVER said anything to the OP at all.

Well there you go. You were responding to someone who responded to
someone who responded to the OP - apparently jumping into the thread
without addressing the OP's problem.

While I agree that bf is best and that there are a lot of bogus
reasons given for stopping, I don't agree that one should require
someone to justify their decisions to you or other folks on the
internet. There is a fine line between giving helpful advice and
harassing someone.


Where the HELL do you get "harassment" from me pointing out that even
medications that are known to be safe have warnings against use while BF?

Because it wasn't relevant to the OP, the mere fact that you pointed
it out was being critical. Like you thought that the persons who were
responding to the people who said that there was never any reason to
stop bf with a possible reason were incorrect. That seemed to ally
you with all those people who were telling the OP that she should not
be stopping bf and that formula tasted nasty etc.

I give up. You are not being rational. You're attributing words and
intentions to me that I never said or implied. I did not call anyone

You may not have had those intentions, or meant to imply them, but
given the background of the thread I think anyone might read that into
what you wrote.

"silly." I did not ask anyone to justify their actions. I do not tell

No you wouldn't do that. But the fact that you were jumping in with
information that one should not necessarily stop bf just because of
medical instructions to do so MEANS (to me anyway) that you do not
approve of those who accept such instructions. If you don't approve
then you inviting them to justify themselves

"strangers or acquaintances on the Internet" what to do, nor do I give
unasked-for advice. I did not "attack someone who
stated that it wasn't a good idea to disregard instructions not to bf when
taking medications." I did not disrespect anyone's experience. You say that

Well someone did that.

I did all those things when all I did was point out that you can't
necessarily go by the CYA labels plastered on medicine containers when
determining safety, and that most meds are at least potentially compatible
with BF. I don't know WHAT your problem with me is, but in the future, can
you please keep your attacks on me based on reality?


grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive:yes
dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
(Hillary Israeli) wrote:

In ,
Rosalie B. wrote:

*I don't know what there was in the post originally, but given that
*fragment, there is no reason to even bring up medications taken while
*bf. As I scanned the thread I saw the bf nazis coming in and
*castigating the OP for stopping bf and telling her that she can/should
*start up again.

I didn't see any breastfeeding nazis! I just saw concerned readers
wondering if the original poster had any chance of resuming the BF
relationship as a solution to her problem. Interesting how one's
perspective can color one's interpretation.

Unless I'm mistaken, i think you filter out one of the people who
responded most offensively.

I'm sure that's true for me anyway - I saw that post (or part of it)
in a response that someone made.

grandma Rosalie

x-no-archive:yes
"iphigenia" wrote:

Banty wrote:

Instead of telling people to ignore medical advice, since you have
*no* credentials yourself, suggest that people take Hale's book as a
cite, and present that to their physician and pediatrician.

Often as not, we DO.

WHO is WE??? You keep saying WE do this and WE do that.

snip

grandma Rosalie

In article mehouck-96598B.16364324102003@newssvr14-
ext.news.prodigy.com, says...
In article ,
(Hillary Israeli) wrote:
I didn't see any breastfeeding nazis! I just saw concerned readers
wondering if the original poster had any chance of resuming the BF
relationship as a solution to her problem. Interesting how one's
perspective can color one's interpretation.

Unless I'm mistaken, i think you filter out one of the people who
responded most offensively.

So, basically, everyone who posts in misc.kids.breastfeeding is being
taken to task for Steve's behavior, even though he doesn't post
there?

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00) Zachary Mitchell
Theona Alexis (06/03/03) (01/12/94, fostered 09/05/01 - 07/23/03)

In article ,
says...

How about *this* plan of action:

How about this, since everything you suggested is in fact done, how
about you either educate yourself about mkb, or stop attacking it.

Michelle
Flutist

--
In my heart. By my side.
Never apart. AP with Pride!
Katrina Marie (10/19/96)
Xander Ryan (09/22/98 - 02/23/99)
Gareth Xander (07/17/00) Zachary Mitchell
Theona Alexis (06/03/03) (01/12/94, fostered 09/05/01 - 07/23/03)

"Rosalie B." wrote in message
...

As I scanned the thread I saw the bf nazis coming in and
castigating the OP for stopping bf and telling her that she can/should
start up again.

I just have to say, I LOATHE the phrase "bf nazis".
--
JennP.

mom to Matthew 10/11/00
remove "no........spam" to reply

In article SBkmb.169743$9l5.38501@pd7tw2no, Dawn Lawson says...



Banty wrote:


::Snip a lot of the usual crap about how phsycians are ignorant, and mkb is the
'best' source of medical information::

Nah. There's no way I can educate ignorant physicians across the world,
but I CAN point out that they may not be the best source of advice wrt
breastfeeding, including drug compatibility for same. Repeated
situations where mothers have been advised to stop nursing for very very
unnecessary reasons suggest it's pretty darn important for SOMEone to
speak up.

Bfding advice is what mkb is all about. Stop crossposting if you find
it offensive that people would advise on what they know, and would offer
information on drugs. ANYone can buy a copy of Hale's book, fercrissake.

One book does not medical advice make. Give all the *breastfeeding* advice you
want, but you should NOT be giving MEDICAL advice.


Advise nursing mothers to take what information you can give them to their
personal medical professionals.


Done. What's the big deal?

It's not done enough. This whole thing started with Marie was told that she
didn't have to pay attention to labels on medicine. NO - she was NOT told that
she could have consulted Hales and taken that information to her doctor - she
was told that the labels are usually wrong.

I'm *not* saying "doctors are infallible" - I'm saying that a group of lay
people are *not* a substitute for a doctor, you're *not* trained, did *not*
examine any of the readers, and should *not* be telling mothers medications are
OK for breastfeeding based on Hales.


Do you as, apparently, a dr. feel that you have a great deal of
knowledge about breastfeeding and that you are always using uptodate and
accurate sources for advising women what drugs are safe to use? Would
you feel ok about telling a woman to stop nursing for a 7 day or 10 day
course of amoxillan, even if that could jeopardise her nursing
relationship with her child? What about telling a woman to pump and
dump needlessly while using codeine? THat's the kind of stuff mkb sees
probably weekly.

If you disagree with something like that, cite the source, and ask a
breastfeeding woman to take the information back to her doctor. You are NOT a
substitute for a doctor, you should NOT be contradicting any phsycian's advice!


Dawn, recalling now just how flippin' toxic mk is

It's toxic to the insular, self-congratulating attitudes of certain mkb regulars
concerning certain topics regarding breastfeeding.

Banty

"JennP" wrote:
I just have to say, I LOATHE the phrase "bf nazis".

me too. i think it raises the volume way past where it belongs, and i
think it dilutes the understanding of the actual third reich Nazis as
the evil murderous horror that they were. i feel the same way about the
abhorrent term "feminazi". i also dislike the cheapening of the term
rape (i.e. "rape of the earth").

--
-- Vicki
Married DH May 21, 1995
Ima shel DS, born 11/16/99; and DD, born 5/19/02.
"Stay-at-home" Ima since October 2002.
An ounce of mother is worth a pound of clergy. -Spanish proverb
I may not currently be pregnant, but I look pregnant, does that count?

How about *this* plan of action:

Instead of telling people to ignore medical advice, since you have *no*
credentials yourself, suggest that people take Hale's book as a cite, and
present that to their physician and

pediatrician.

Sure, it would be lovely if every nursing mother could and would buy a copy of
Hale's, but it isn't exactly cheap. ($25). Also, not all women have the
medica/technical background to understand what they are reading. So those of us
who own copies offer a service to those who don't.
But we don't say "ignore your doctor." We give them information to bring to
their doctor and discuss with him further.

Not only do you *not* have medical credentials, you do *not* have the
opportunity to examine anyone who comes to mkp

Not sure how this is relevent. How would an individual's medical history/exam
affect how the drug they are taking gets into the breatmilk and gets to the
baby?

you do *not* have a way to
confirm exactly what medications people are taking just from what they tell
you,

True, but neither can we prescribe anything. So if someone posts "My doctor
has prescribed X but says I have to wean to take it. Can you look it up and see
what Hale says," why on earth would they lie about the name of the drug?
(Because if the answer we give is inaccurate, how have we helped that mother in
any way?)

and telling
people that their physicians are ignorant.

Unfortunately, too many doctors ARE ignorant about breastfeeding, or at least
don't feel it's particularly important. The standard belief is that it's no big
deal to recommend weaning for spurious reasons because formula is really just
as good, so even the remotest chance of harm from the drug MUST be worse than
the chance of harm from switching to formula.

So how about it - educate those physicians you think are so ignorant as well
as
their patients,

And this is all part of it. If we can give mothers information to bring back
to their doctors, we are letting the doctors know that
a) most drugs ARE safe to take while nursing
b) many mothers DO care about breastfeeding and are not willing to wean for
spurious reasons, or just beacuse their doctors tell them they have to.

And if enough women keep bringing their doctors information from Hale, maybe
more doctors will buy copies of the book themselves, and check into it when
prescribing for nursing moms.



and get out of the business of passing along advice for
yourself.

The primary "advice" we give is to take the information we provide and talk to
their doctors. Which is surely reasonable advice?

(Last year we were talking here about Shaina's asthma, and a couple of people
commented that her treatment plan seemed dated,and suggested some other
options. Did you consider that inappropriate of them? I took that info to her
pediatrician and we talked about it, and did indeed make some changes to her
asthma treatment. [And yes, he asked me where I'd heard about it, and I said
"From some friends on the net."])




Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

In article , Naomi Pardue says...

How about *this* plan of action:

Instead of telling people to ignore medical advice, since you have *no*
credentials yourself, suggest that people take Hale's book as a cite, and
present that to their physician and

pediatrician.

Sure, it would be lovely if every nursing mother could and would buy a copy of
Hale's, but it isn't exactly cheap. ($25). Also, not all women have the
medica/technical background to understand what they are reading. So those of us
who own copies offer a service to those who don't.
But we don't say "ignore your doctor." We give them information to bring to
their doctor and discuss with him further.

I didn't say *buy the book*, I said take it as a cite.

Other points were pretty much covered in my other post.

Banty