night potty 'training'

I have an almost 4 year old daughter who has been in underwear during
the day and naps successfully with virtually no accidents for about 2
years. At night, however, she has been wearing a pull-up and *never*
wakes up dry. Over the months we have tried from time to time to have
her wear underwear to bed and every time she completely sleeps through
the fact that she's gone to the bathroom and we find her sleeping in a
wet puddle totally unaware that she's even had an accident. Is night
training physiology versus 'training', in other words is this something
we should just give some more time, or is there a 'training' method that
is recommended at this age/stage in the game?

I've seen a variety of suggestions online, from sticker rewards in the
morning, to waking them during the night to go, but I'm just not sure
rewards will work if she can't wake up enough to realize she's
going/gone, and we're willing to wake her during the night, but I'm not
yet convinced that is the best approach either. Its come up recently
because she wants to sleep over at a friends house but doesn't want her
friend to see her wearing a diaper at night.

cara

"cara" wrote in message
...
I have an almost 4 year old daughter who has been in underwear during
the day and naps successfully with virtually no accidents for about 2
years. At night, however, she has been wearing a pull-up and *never*
wakes up dry. Over the months we have tried from time to time to have
her wear underwear to bed and every time she completely sleeps through
the fact that she's gone to the bathroom and we find her sleeping in a
wet puddle totally unaware that she's even had an accident. Is night
training physiology versus 'training', in other words is this something
we should just give some more time, or is there a 'training' method that
is recommended at this age/stage in the game?

I've seen a variety of suggestions online, from sticker rewards in the
morning, to waking them during the night to go, but I'm just not sure
rewards will work if she can't wake up enough to realize she's
going/gone, and we're willing to wake her during the night, but I'm not
yet convinced that is the best approach either. Its come up recently
because she wants to sleep over at a friends house but doesn't want her
friend to see her wearing a diaper at night.

cara


With both kids we take them to the bathroom between 10:30 and 11 pm (they go
to bed at 7 pm and 8 pm). My husband takes the younger one at 5:30 when he
gets up. The oldest will wake up on her own in the night to go. Since
we've been doing this - no accidents.

Why would taking them to the bathroom be bad? They go on their own when
they need to in the night.

cara wrote:
Is night
training physiology versus 'training', in other words is this
something we should just give some more time, or is there a
'training' method that is recommended at this age/stage in the game?

IMO and IME, it is a bit of both. My personal feeling is that if she doesn't
even wake up to noitce she is wet, she is probably NOT physiologically ready
and any attempt to reward her for being dry at night won't work.
Furthermore, since it appears that she *wants* to go without a diaper, this
cannot be a motivational issue, so rewarding her for dryness isn't likely to
improve things.

That said, I also have found that my daughter (4.5) will not wake up dry if
she wears a diaper to bed but *will* wake up dry if she wears a panty to
bed. IOW, she somehow knows, even if her sleep, whether she's wearing a
diaper or not and releases urine or holds it accordingly. But before she was
really ready physically, there was a period of time where she would pee at
night whether she was wearing a diaper or a panty, which basically meant if
we forgot to put a diaper on her before she went to bed, she woke up wet,
cold, and unhappy sometime in the night.

Personally, I'd give it more time. We realized our daughter was ready after
she'd been waking up with a dry diaper about half the time and also made it
through the night in panties a couple of time when we forgot to diaper her
before putting her to bed. Nowadays, she does really well although we still
put a diaper on her if she falls asleep very early in the evening and
therefore doesn't have a chance to pee shortly before bed.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [22 mos.] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
Financing for "5" years -- car dealership sign

Mommy: I call you "baby" because I love you.
Julian (age 4): Oh! All right, Mommy baby.

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

It doesn't sound like she is ready to go without the pull up. I would give
it some more time. Although, you can wake her up and take her to the
bathroom when you go to bed (that is if you stay up later than she does).

Since she is wanting to spend the night at a friend's house, you can tell
her that she can go to the bathroom and change into her pj's and put her
pull-up on and no one needs to know that she wears one. However, I would
alert the other mother of the situation.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

cara wrote in message
...
I have an almost 4 year old daughter who has been in underwear during
the day and naps successfully with virtually no accidents for about 2
years. At night, however, she has been wearing a pull-up and *never*
wakes up dry. Over the months we have tried from time to time to have
her wear underwear to bed and every time she completely sleeps through
the fact that she's gone to the bathroom and we find her sleeping in a
wet puddle totally unaware that she's even had an accident. Is night
training physiology versus 'training', in other words is this something
we should just give some more time, or is there a 'training' method that
is recommended at this age/stage in the game?

I've seen a variety of suggestions online, from sticker rewards in the
morning, to waking them during the night to go, but I'm just not sure
rewards will work if she can't wake up enough to realize she's
going/gone, and we're willing to wake her during the night, but I'm not
yet convinced that is the best approach either. Its come up recently
because she wants to sleep over at a friends house but doesn't want her
friend to see her wearing a diaper at night.

cara

Hi -

Your daughter is experiencing "primary eneuresis". Which is a fancy way
of saying that she wets at night and has never been dry at night. It's
a physiological thing, and she should outgrow it in time. (You might
enquire of her grandparents as to when you, your hubby, aunts and
uncles stopped wetting at night. You may find that your family just
runs late on this one.) It's not a cause for worry yet; discuss it with
your ped. at her next checkup.

"Secondary eneuresis" is wetting at night AFTER a child has been dry at
night for some time. This is cause for concern, and may be triggered by
traumatic events (such as the birth of a sib, or a scary event) or by
physical problems that need to be addressed.

Girls tend to stop wetting at night earlier than boys, but most children
stop by the time they're through puberty. It's one of those things
where, with every year of age, fewer children are wetting at night but
SOME still are. Just ask the parents of your child's friends!

I hope this helps,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

cara wrote:

I have an almost 4 year old daughter who has been in underwear during
the day and naps successfully with virtually no accidents for about 2
years. At night, however, she has been wearing a pull-up and *never*
wakes up dry. Over the months we have tried from time to time to have
her wear underwear to bed and every time she completely sleeps through
the fact that she's gone to the bathroom and we find her sleeping in a
wet puddle totally unaware that she's even had an accident. Is night
training physiology versus 'training', in other words is this something
we should just give some more time, or is there a 'training' method that
is recommended at this age/stage in the game?


I'm a firm believer that the vast majority of the
time, night training is totally physiological and there's
not a damn thing you can do about it until the kid's
ready, particularly if you have a sound sleeper. My son
was like this. He slept through everything--wouldn't
notice having an accident. We couldn't even wake him
at night to have him go because it was nearly impossible
to wake him enough that he *would* go. I gave up trying
and figured he'd get there when he got there. It took
until he was 8 1/2 years old, but one day he came in
and told me his pull-up had been dry for a week and
he was ready to get rid of it. He did, and he's had
nary an accident since.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Beth Kevles wrote:

Hi -

Your daughter is experiencing "primary eneuresis". Which is a fancy way
of saying that she wets at night and has never been dry at night. It's
a physiological thing, and she should outgrow it in time. (You might
enquire of her grandparents as to when you, your hubby, aunts and
uncles stopped wetting at night. You may find that your family just
runs late on this one.) It's not a cause for worry yet; discuss it with
your ped. at her next checkup.

I know that one of my nephews on my husbands side had a hard time with this up
until his pre-teens even, so maybe it is something that runs late. We haven't
really actively tried to get her to wear underwear at night because I've always
suspected it to be mostly physiological, but then again, she's been so
consistent and never has day or nap accidents so I'm just not sure. We'll
bring it up with the ped at her 4 yo visit.

cara

Sophie wrote:

With both kids we take them to the bathroom between 10:30 and 11 pm (they go
to bed at 7 pm and 8 pm). My husband takes the younger one at 5:30 when he
gets up. The oldest will wake up on her own in the night to go. Since
we've been doing this - no accidents.

Why would taking them to the bathroom be bad? They go on their own when
they need to in the night.

I don't think its bad to take them at night - one reason we haven't done it is
she is SO hard to get to sleep, she fights it like crazy, such that when she
finally *is* asleep, nobody wants to wake the sleeping dragon for fear she won't
go back to bed without another battle. But the other reason is I was wondering
if physically they should be able to awaken or become more alert when they have
the urge to go in the night, and she seems to just sleep through the wetness, so
I'm sure by waking her she would wake up dry, but it still doesn't solve the
fact that she doesn't even realize she needs to 'go'. We'll have #2 arriving in
a few months, maybe when I'm up in the night with the baby I can try waking her
and see how that goes.

cara

Sue wrote:

It doesn't sound like she is ready to go without the pull up. I would give
it some more time. Although, you can wake her up and take her to the
bathroom when you go to bed (that is if you stay up later than she does).

Since she is wanting to spend the night at a friend's house, you can tell
her that she can go to the bathroom and change into her pj's and put her
pull-up on and no one needs to know that she wears one. However, I would
alert the other mother of the situation.

I already told her that the girls mom could help her in private put her diaper
on and then the pjs and she seemed ok with that idea. She is really close with
this other little girls mom, so I'm sure it would work out fine. Its tough
because she's usually ahead of the game on most things, I think its slightly
frustrating/embarrassing to her that she can't figure this one out, even
though she gets no pressure from us either way on it. This other little
friend can be a little bit mean-spirited sometimes, so I think she anticipates
that, but thats another story...

cara

cara wrote:

I have an almost 4 year old daughter who has been in underwear during
the day and naps successfully with virtually no accidents for about 2
years. At night, however, she has been wearing a pull-up and *never*
wakes up dry. Over the months we have tried from time to time to have
her wear underwear to bed and every time she completely sleeps through
the fact that she's gone to the bathroom and we find her sleeping in a
wet puddle totally unaware that she's even had an accident. Is night
training physiology versus 'training', in other words is this something
we should just give some more time, or is there a 'training' method that
is recommended at this age/stage in the game?

I've seen a variety of suggestions online, from sticker rewards in the
morning, to waking them during the night to go, but I'm just not sure
rewards will work if she can't wake up enough to realize she's
going/gone, and we're willing to wake her during the night, but I'm not
yet convinced that is the best approach either. Its come up recently
because she wants to sleep over at a friends house but doesn't want her
friend to see her wearing a diaper at night.

cara


Our experience was similar to yours in that DD was potty trained by 2
years old but night-time training took a lot longer. At first we would
have her wear underwear to bed from time to time but she would never
wake up dry. Finally we just dropped the issue. DD would wear pull-ups
at night. When she went on sleep-overs at a friend's house, we would
tell the parent about the pull-up. DD would change into the pull-up at
the same time she changed into her pajamas - it was all matter-of-fact -
not an issue. I don't think any of her friends ever made fun of her for
wearing pull-ups.

When she was four, we talked about wearing underwear at night - she
wasn't out of nighttime pull-ups at that point. She said "when I'm
five, I'll wear underwear to sleep". Okay, that's a decision I could
live with. For some reason (maybe because she was waking up dry), when
she was 4 1/2, I asked if she wanted to wear underwear to bed now rather
than waiting until she was five. She said yes, so that night she told
DH "Mommy said I could wear underwear to sleep if I wanted to" so he let
her wear underwear instead of pull-ups. She's been dry ever since.

So, I think the child has to be physically able to stay dry AND she has
to want to stay dry. In your case, it doesn't sound like she's
physiologically developed to the point of being able to stay dry.

Jeanne