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intro and question attachment parenting



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 15th 03, 12:15 AM
Banty
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Default intro and question attachment parenting

In article , Kevin Karplus says...


Sleep whenever you can---it is FAR more important than most people
realize, definitely more important than housework. If you have a
partner, have him or her carry the baby while you nap.


Sleep is important, more important than housework.

But.... I know as a single mom with a baby I got the "oh, let the housework go"
advice A LOT. And, although I'm no neatnik, there is a point beyond which I
feel out of control, dirty, and disorganized, if I'm sitting in dirty,
disorganized environs. Past this point, the "oh, don't worrry about the
house.." advice started to really get on my nerves.

So, if you're one not to feel comfortable letting the housework go, I'm here to
give you permission to tell you not to feel guilty paying some attention to your
environs, even when everyone's tripping over themselves telling you to let the
housework go. :-)

So, here's my advice: when folks in real life tell you "oh don't WORRY about
the HOUSEWORK", tell them "Oh, but how I could really be helped and what I would
sooo appreciate would be (list most pressing housework chore here)"

Cheers,
Banty

  #12  
Old October 15th 03, 04:26 AM
Alicia
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Default intro and question attachment parenting

Hello Marion, thank you for your advice. When I say that I am an
'attachment parent' I tend to use the term as a catch all for my belief
system regarding parenting. I don't follow everything to the letter, and I
try my best to do my best for my son. But when I get too exhausted, that's
when I let go of those ideals. I don't feel guilty except when I have to
put him down and let him cry. In my opinion, that is when a baby should be
held is when he is crying. Up until a certain age anyway. Because at this
age, that's all they can do to communicate. However, there is only so much
one can do. I co-sleep with my baby and feel great about it. I sleep very
well, hardly even waking when he wants to be fed. We usually get a good 7-8
hours of sleep a night before he wakes up to be changed and talk to us.
Anyway, I appreciate hearing your experience, thank you for sharing ideas
with me.
Alicia


Absolutely- my daughter now 15 was colicky and cryed herself to sleep
pretty much every time for the first year of her life. I used to use a
kitchen timer and set it for 15 minutes and put her down and then go get
something to eat, jump in the shower, etc. For those who criticize, I
say it's better than throwing her against the wall, which is what would
have happened. As she got older, she would cry furiously for shorter
and shorter periods of time- maybe even 30 seconds and then "clunk" but
she almost always cried when put down and very, very seldom was I able
to nurse her or rock her to sleep. Some babies cry when tired or
overstimulated.

I was not a big attachment parenting fan- I saw too many exhausted
mothers who felt guilty no matter what they did. I breast fed my
children and used a sling- but I got much better sleep with my kids in a
crib with another room.

Be sure you are not doing to much at home and if you have a partner that
he is giving you a break. Even if you are nursing he can give the baby a
bath, take him for a walk. etc. With my second, I expressed milk for one
bottle a week and had my husband give it the first waking after 11:00 pm
on Fridays. Just getting one 6 hours stretch of sleep a week made a big
difference.


Marion Baumgarten


  #13  
Old October 15th 03, 04:27 AM
Alicia
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Default intro and question attachment parenting

Hi Robyn, thank you for your opinions. I agree that I don't need any labels
about my parenting style, I just wanted to communicate to people my
philosophical choices regarding parenting. I was hoping to hear from others
who shared this viewpoint about ways that they got around being exhausted
while still upholding the general concept. I am very pleased to have so
many responses to my query, I have learned a fair bit from what you and
others have said. I will try a sling again and see how that works. I find
that my back gets really sore while using the sling or anything else to
carry this baby. I'm certain that there are some muscles in my sides have
been affected by my section, since I used to lie down for most of the day
for many weeks. Anyway, we'll see what happens as I get a bit stronger.
For now, Raine loves the Snugli and I can carry him everywhere in it.
Thanks again, Alicia


I think you may be overestimating the value of "attachment parenting" as
the one true and correct way to parent. I understand that you prefer this
philosophy, and that's great, to the extent that you can keep it up and
stay sane!

However, lots of parents who haven't chosen attachment parenting also
end up with children who develop a trusting relationship with them as
well. I have 3 boys, ages 2, 7 and 10yo, and they all have a very
close relationship with me despite sleeping in their own cribs (after
a bassinet or similar by my bed for *my* convenience in the early months)
and occasionally being allowed to cry, and even being (gasp!) Ferberized
(though I now believe there are gentler methods to achieve the same end).

It sounds to me like you are looking for affirmation that you can put your
baby down to cry when you're desperate, and still be a "good attachment
parent".

What I want to tell you instead is that you need not put a label on
your parenting choices, nor worry about living up to someone else's
standard of "attached enough". You need to do what feels right to you
while meeting your own needs as well. It sounds like the solution
you've come to for now is to adopt a basically attachment style of
parenting, but needing to take some space occasionally. I think that's
fine and I think your child will be fine. You may feel better if you
learn to nurse in the sling and manage to get yourself something to
eat, etc. while nursing. It's a learned skill, but worth working on.
Older babies are generally easier to nurse while doing other things, so
keep trying.

No one *wants* to put their baby down and let them cry. Yet most parents
end up doing it occasionally if they don't have someone else they can hand
the baby off to when they have had it. It doesn't make you a bad parent.
Whether or not it makes you a bad "attachment parent" I have no opinion
nor standing to judge.

Good luck, and enjoy your baby, and do be sure to take the time to heal

from
your own difficult birth as well. You don't do your child any favors by
short-changing your own health!


--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)


  #14  
Old October 15th 03, 09:19 AM
Alicia
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Default intro and question attachment parenting

Hello Colleen, thank you for your kind words and giving me a different
perspective. I particularly like your analogy of the garden. I guess I am
focussing too much on the details instead of the general picture. I try to
do the best I can, but sometimes my expectations are too high, especially
considering how my pregnancy and birth were. Thank you also for your
confidence, I think Raine is lucky too, because there are so many kids out
there that don't get the kind of love they need so desperately. I want to
give mine the best kind of understanding and love possible. Key word,
"possible". : ) Thanks again Colleen,
-Alicia


But beyond any philosophy or label, what you really want is what is
best for him, right?

That being the case, you need to be sure to take time for your needs,
like eating and going to the bathroom. It's like what they tell you
on the airplanes--put the oxygen on yourself first, then on baby.
Because if your try to put it on the baby first, you might pass out,
and then the baby is doomed.


So the real problem is your feelings, and not how the baby is being
affected.

I did this routinely, although I generally did it for just five
minutes, and found I had to set a timer, and didn't believe how slow
the time was going.

For babies that are over-stimulated, this really is a necessary thing,
and they can learn to calm themselves.

Think of this as practice for telling him that he can't go to (fill in
the blanks) an R-rated movie, or a semester abroad in France or the
mall alone. Throughout his childhood and adolescence, you are going
to be the one to set limits. He will scream.

Raising kids is like raising a garden, you can ignore some aspects, or
make mistakes, and still end up with a great harvest. An entire
generation of American kids was raised without ever being breastfed,
and yet many of them turned out well, with close relationships to mom
and dad.

In this case, you are doing so much right, give yourself credit and be
confident in your relationship with your child, who sounds like a very
fortunate baby.

Colleen Kay Porter, mother of five, our youungest is 10 and the oldest
is your age


  #15  
Old October 15th 03, 09:21 AM
Alicia
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Default intro and question attachment parenting

Hi Monika! I have heard from your hubby a number of times on MKP! : )
Thank you so much for your kindness, it is so nice to hear someone who
offers some sympathy as well as some advice and experience. I think I will
look for a support group online, I don't think our town has anything
established, and I really don't have energy to get anything started.
To answer your question, I do sleep while nursing Raine. I barely register
that he wants to be fed, so I just plug him in when he whacks me with his
little fist or puts his head in my armpit. LOL I also sleep with him
during the day once or twice. I am really good about not doing housework...
hem hem. My husband does all of the chores unless I feel up to doing
something small in the evening while he takes care of the baby. It's only
when I wake up feeling totally exhausted for whatever reason, and the baby
won't sleep with me that I have trouble. And then I go INSANE! I am lucky
that my husband always takes over the baby when he comes home, especially if
Raine is fussy. All I have to do is nurse when he gets hungry. The more I
think about it, the more it seems like I have it really easy. But
regardless, I am still struggling a great deal to make it one day at a time.
At least my incision isn't hurting as much anymore, and I am able to get out
for walks on a daily basis. I will give the sling another try, it is my
first choice for carrying the baby, even though the Snugli works really
really well. He loves that thing.
Take care and thanks for your response.
Alicia


"Monika McMahan" wrote in message
news:LOGib.553748$Oz4.502084@rwcrnsc54...
Hi Alicia,

first of all, a big cyber hug ((((Alicia)))) to you ! The first two-

three
months with a new baby, especially after a difficult pregnancy/birth can

be
soooo difficult!

Give yourself a big pat on the back for starters! You are doing so many
things right! You are nursing your baby (even though many mothers use a
cesarean birth as a reason not to), you allow him the closeness of

sleeping
with you and being held a lot. You are asking for help when you need it

and
are thinking about the best way to parent -- which is more than can be

said
for many parents.

Now for the "problem" and ways to address it: first off, I'd say, try to
find an AP- oriented support group in your area, or, if none is available,
online, or try and start one.
Second, you didn't say if you sleep well at night -- can you sleep while
the baby is nursing yet? Try and learn to do it - for me, that was the
number one benefit of co-sleeping. Also, when the baby naps during the

day
is NOT a time for you to do household chores! It _is_ a time for you to
NAP!!! Your household can fall to pieces without it causing great harm

for
your baby, _you_ can not!
As for your question: is it ok to put a baby down for short periods even

if
it is crying: absolutely! And yes, given all the other loving attention

you
give him, he will "still develop a trusting relationship" with you. Do

give
the sling another chance, though -- that is how I got my household at

least
somewhat done, even with taking naps during the day. Also, pretty soon

your
baby will be too heavy for you to hold him in your arms for long periods

of
time, whereas with the sling it is not as much of a problem.


Hope this helps
Monika



  #16  
Old October 15th 03, 09:22 AM
Alicia
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Default intro and question attachment parenting

Hello there, thanks so much for your take on my situation. I really enjoyed
hearing about the African lady. I find that recently I am very curious
about the way people in other parts of the world raise their children. I
can totally see how a village would be most useful when raising a child. I
wish I had more close friends to ask for help. Most of my friends are
casual friends that I see about once a month. I totally agree that I need a
walk in the woods. I live in the most beautiful province in Canada, and I
am an avid hiker. But since I had a c-section, I have been very slow to
regain my strength and stamina. I go for a walk every day, but that tires
me out a great deal. I do have a lovely husband that takes the baby
whenever he can, or if I need a break. At this point, the thing I want most
during my alone time is to sleep.
Your uncle was a great man for doing that. I don't know of many brothers
who would offer such support to their sister after a new baby. That's
wonderful that your mother also keeps up the favour by helping other
mothers.
I have learned a lot from the various responses to posting, more from
others' experiences than the actual advice because a great deal of these
ideas I already employ. But it's good to get some new perspective, and
there are a few good ideas that I haven't tried yet, or that I wouldn't have
thought of. Thanks again,
Alicia


I spent this weekend at a conference where the main speaker was an
African woman talking about the rituals and beliefs and practices of her
tribe. She said that we may have heard that it takes a village to raise
a child. "It doesn't, really," she said. "It takes a village to keep a
parent sane." Most people laughed, but I could see that others who,
like me, felt more like crying! Sanity can be difficult to hold onto
when you are raising children.

Your situation is a prime example of where the lack of a village makes
retaining sanity extremely difficult. What you really need is to hand
the baby to someone else, and go for a walk in the woods. You need an
hour or an afternoon or maybe even a whole day where you know someone
else who loves your baby as much as you do will tend to her every need,
while you do an art project or listen to some great music or read a book
-- or just take a nap. You need to tend to your own spiritual and
emotional health to be the great mother you will be.

Mom tells me that when I was a baby there was an afternoon that had been
very bad. I was crying, she was crying and holding me and feeling like
an inept mother, when her older brother came to visit. He took me from
her, and ordered her out of the house for at least 1/2 an hour; that
gave her a chance to NOT listen to me cry, and by the time she came back
I was asleep, and she felt better. She, in turn, continues to do this
as often as she can when she sees a young mother who is obviously
stressed out by a crying baby.

If you have any relatives or close friends near by, don't be afraid to
reach out and ask for help: tell them exactly what you've said here,
and ask if they can come and give you a respite. The baby will be fine
without nursing for an hour or so, and you can get out of hearing range:
listening to a baby cry when it is not going to stop is extraordinarily
stressful!

If you don't have anyone who can do that, I hope you have a second
parent; if so, whenever he or she comes home, you need to turn the baby
over to them for a break for yourself.

If there is noone -- if you are a single parent -- you need to reach
out and somewhere, somehow, find other people who can help you.

In the meantime, crying alone for a while won't do him irrepairable
harm, and you and he will attach just fine.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care


  #17  
Old October 15th 03, 07:44 PM
Kevin Karplus
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Default intro and question attachment parenting

In article D04jb.101878$pl3.39988@pd7tw3no, Alicia wrote:
I will give the sling another try, it is my
first choice for carrying the baby, even though the Snugli works really
really well. He loves that thing.


An alert baby who wants to look around a lot may be happier in a
Snugli facing out than in a sling. The Snugli is certainly better
engineered for weight distribution (you can wear it more comfortably
with a heavier baby). If you and the baby both like the Snugli, it is
a good choice. The main advantages of a sling are easier nursing and
how quickly you can put it on. Slings can also be made very cheaply,
and the markup on the commercial ones I've seen is unreasonable.

Later on, as the baby gets heavier, you'll probably have to switch to
a back pack. You'll want to try on the back pack before buying
though, as they don't all fit all people. We had some very cheap
backpacks and wanted to use one of the fancier ones that looked good
in the catalogs---we did a lot of walking and were willing to pay for
the most comfortable back pack for carrying the baby. Lacking a local
source we mail ordered a back pack after careful comparison of the
features and descriptions, only to find that even with all the
adjustments available there was no way to make it fit us even as well
as the cheap one we already had. We sent it back and continued using
the cheap one. Had there been a good local source, we could have
tried on several packs and found one that adjusted to fit us well.

Kevin Karplus http://www.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus
life member (LAB, Adventure Cycling, American Youth Hostels)
Effective Cycling Instructor #218-ck (lapsed)
Professor of Computer Engineering, University of California, Santa Cruz
Undergraduate and Graduate Director, Bioinformatics
Affiliations for identification only.

  #18  
Old October 16th 03, 01:21 AM
Scott Lindstrom
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Default intro and question attachment parenting

Kevin Karplus wrote:
In article D04jb.101878$pl3.39988@pd7tw3no, Alicia wrote:

I will give the sling another try, it is my
first choice for carrying the baby, even though the Snugli works really
really well. He loves that thing.



An alert baby who wants to look around a lot may be happier in a
Snugli facing out than in a sling. The Snugli is certainly better
engineered for weight distribution (you can wear it more comfortably
with a heavier baby). If you and the baby both like the Snugli, it is
a good choice. The main advantages of a sling are easier nursing and
how quickly you can put it on. Slings can also be made very cheaply,
and the markup on the commercial ones I've seen is unreasonable.


I think another advantage to sling vs. snugli is the
ease with which a baby can be removed. I recall many
instances of walking with DD in the Snugli so she would
fall asleep, only to have her wake as I fumbled to
extract her from the Snugli.

But maybe they are better designed for baby egress
now.

Scott DD 10 and DS 7

  #20  
Old October 16th 03, 11:38 AM
Alicia
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Default intro and question attachment parenting

Hello Sue, thanks for not being redundant. : ) I agree that I have been
given some great advice here, and I have taken it to heart. As for
answering your questions:
1. Baby cries mostly in the evening, or during the day if he's tired or
hungry.
2. He sleeps very well during the night, and naps with me during the day
for 1-3 hours as well as a number of smaller naps after feeding.
3. I don't think I am eating anything that bothers him because he doesn't
have the signs of allergies or colic, and his fussyness is usually at the
same time each day for the most part.
4. I drink some decaf coffee each day, but I am not a coffee/tea/cola
drinker. I do have a bit of chocolate each day, but again, only a small
amount.
5. I do give him a finger or thumb to suck on if we're walking, otherwise
he won't take one.
6. I think you are right that he may not want to drink, but likes the
comfort of the breast and that might be why he fusses sometimes. I think I
will look into alternatives for pacifiers. I don't like the idea of giving
him one, but he may benefit from it at this point.
7. I always sleep and nurse him. I barely wake up at all to feed him. And
we have great naps together during the day.
8. My husband is really good about taking the baby when he's here thank
goodness.

My main problem is when he won't sleep and I am really tired. On a normal
basis, he's a really easy baby (aside from my exhaustion and desire to do
what I want to do instead of what I have to do....). I think I've got some
new ideas now that have helped. I will give them a try and then see how
things go for the next week or two.
Thanks a lot for your ideas,
-Alicia


"Sue" wrote in message
...
You have gotten some good advice, but instead of me telling you to take

care
of yourself (which I agree with whole heartedly), lets try and figure out

if
there is a cause for the crying. Does he seem to cry at night more than
during the day? Is he sleeping well? If the baby isn't sleeping enough,

then
that will make him over stimulated and too tired to sleep. Do you think
anything your eating could cause an upset tummy in him? Are you drinking

any
caffeine? If you don't want to use a pacifier, then most AP parents

suggest
giving a pinky finger to suck on. However, having the baby being two

months
means your supply is pretty well established and giving a pacifier at this
point would not be a horrible thing. It might take care of his sucking
needs. He perhaps is getting mad at getting milk when all he wants to do

is
suck. Get better with using the sling. Using a sling saved my sanity with

my
three girls. Can you lay down and nurse so you can sleep when he sleeps?
This takes practice, but worthwhile in the long run. Don't rule out

another
growth spurt, sometimes they can come right on top of each other. Don't

feel
bad at putting the baby down. Do you have a husband or SO that can take

the
baby for a little while so you can take a bath or for a walk? If you can
answer some of my questions, perhaps I can help more. Oh, one more thing,

if
you think he is gassy or upset tummy, then try to burp more often or try
smithecone drops. )
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...


 




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