Why won't she eat?!

This is more of a vent than anything...

DD has always been a reverse cycler since I started work. About 6
weeks ago I went away for 2.5 days and she started taking more by
bottle at daycare. That lasted the week. Then she started gradually
dropping back again, so much so that now, she's only taking ~6oz
between 7am-5pm. She gets a bit more if I go at lunch to nurse her,
but even then she doesn't nurse much. We try to eliminate distractions
(eg, the dog) when I nurse, and the babysitter feeds her when the
other kids are napping so it's quiet. But she just won't eat. She
nurses more on the weekends, but she's still up all night nursing.

I could handle the nursing every 3 hours at night, but now it' smore
like every hour. And she goes through long awake periods at night. She
has had solids 1x/day, but now I think I should cut them out entirely
to see if that's interfering with her BM uptake.

I think overall she's getting enough. She has about 6 wet cloth
diapers on the weekends, during the week she has disposables at
daycare and I don't think they're changed as often as I'd like, but
she has about 3 wet disposables then 1-2 wet cloth/24 hr period.
However, apart from the night waking, I'm getting worried about her
not reaching developmental milestones. I know every baby's different,
but she really seems to be at the bottom of the curve. At 8.5 months,
she has *just* started rolling over regularly (she did it at 3-4months
once in awhile, but then stopped). She can sit up unaided, but needs
to have pillows nearby because she will topple over. No crawling, or
real motion to do so. She does do pushups fairly well. She doesn't
really babble yet, tho she does squak. The paranoid new mom (and
former NICU mom) is thinking the lack of food/sleep is contributing to
her slow development. Her height/weight ratio is less than 50%. Now
I'm extra paranoid that the nutrionist at the devleopmental pedi's
office - whom we see in 2 weeks - is going to push formula or more
solids (at 3.5 months she kept asking 'and what formula do you give
her' and was very concerned she was not getting enough because she was
under the 50% height/weight mark then).

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. Lack of sleep isn't helping
mommy's brain either...

hmm, tricky one, I do think it's possible she's not having enough solids, I
know that they are basically just for learning etc. before age 1, but even
from that point of view an 8.5mth old would likely be having 2 meals,
kellymom is saying max 2 meals between 7 and 9 months, so 1 is ok, but you
have to look at the whole picture. To me it seems she needs to sleep more,
she's just not getting enough for good development and that the solids are
not going to be inhibiting her milk intake, so cutting them down isn't the
way to go, the current amount isn't working, so maybe more is something to
try, particularly if you can make them include a moderate amount of milk.
Oatmeal was what worked for both our kids, I think I varied whether or not I
made it with breastmilk, but a portion of oatmeal could have about 2oz of
milk in it. Figure out some other meal that even if it doesn't have
breastmilk in it, has relevant nutrients and maybe that will be a step in
the right direction.

If she's feeding once and hour in the night, it's possible overnight she's
actually taking less than if she had 3 good feeds spaced through the night,
each time she doesn't fill her tummy, nor is it fully empty the next time.
It's likely to very hard, but I think you have to spread those feeds to min
2hrs between them, it may feel brutal, but it's best for her nutritionally
in the short term and hopefully she'll get the idea that she needs to sleep.
You may also need to look at when you give her solids, I don't know all the
details, but on what I currently know, I'd suggest when she arrives at
daycare and about an hour after you nurse her at lunch time.

I really wouldn't worry about her milestones, the only one I'd have a
question about is the sitting, I'd ask the doctor about her muscle tone and
her balance, because that does seem a bit slow, but on the other hand, how
much practice is she getting? both my kids got the hang of sitting by a week
of constantly being sat with an adult sat with legs either side of them, but
not actually supporting them, just ready to catch if necessary, by the
calendar that was the same week, at my parents between Christmas and new
year, but it was different ages. Rolling is a funny one, it seems to be
something some kids do once and see no point in doing again. Crawling is a
no worry one too, a full 25% of babies never crawl (maybe it's 20%, but it's
a lot). I also don't see any concern with the babbling, I don't recall
exactly when DS was doing that, but I can pretty much guarantee he wasn't at
that age and he was fairly much text book in talking after that.

As for this ratio thingy, I'm a bit of a skeptic when it comes to that, I
think it's far more genetic than anything else, so why keep plotting it?
some kids are tall and thing, others are shorter and stockier, I think
according to those, my daughter is under 50%, but when you look at her,
she's actually pretty chubby, I think she's just got smaller bones
underneath bringing her total weight down.

I'm sure you know this too, but I'm going to put it into words, given her
complete lack of desire to take a bottle, how on earth would formula help!
The only way it possibly could would be if you weaned her completely, so she
had no choice, but the long term health risks of that are not worth taking,
switching her day time bottles to formula is very unlikely to make any
difference at all and could even make things worse.

Actually that brings another thought to mind, have you experimented with
different drinking vessels for the ebm, she may well managed a lidded cup
(not one with a valve), or even an open cup (google for doidy, a cup shaped
to make it easier for a baby), because the best case scenario would be to up
the amount she has in the day time, but I don't think that alone would
change her night time habits, because I think it is a habit.

Another thought occurs, is there any possibility of a sabbatical from work,
taking some holiday time, or even working part time for a while. I really
don't think you have anything to worry about in terms of her, though there
are things that might help her "thrive" more, but I do worry about you
driving and what not on so little sleep, I'd hate to see you burn out and be
on sick leave and if you can present it to work as if that is a possibility,
maybe they would be receptive to some altered working arrangements?

Cheers

Anne

On Mar 13, 10:08 pm, "cjra" wrote:
This is more of a vent than anything...

DD has always been a reverse cycler since I started work. About 6
weeks ago I went away for 2.5 days and she started taking more by
bottle at daycare. That lasted the week. Then she started gradually
dropping back again, so much so that now, she's only taking ~6oz
between 7am-5pm. She gets a bit more if I go at lunch to nurse her,
but even then she doesn't nurse much. We try to eliminate distractions
(eg, the dog) when I nurse, and the babysitter feeds her when the
other kids are napping so it's quiet. But she just won't eat. She
nurses more on the weekends, but she's still up all night nursing.

I could handle the nursing every 3 hours at night, but now it' smore
like every hour. And she goes through long awake periods at night. She
has had solids 1x/day, but now I think I should cut them out entirely
to see if that's interfering with her BM uptake.

She sounds alot like my first daughter - she barely took a bottle
and reverse cycled. I agree with Anne, maybe you should increase
the solids. We also did oatmeal (mixed with EBM) and avacado is
a great first food, lots of good fat in that. Also, both my girls were
rolly polly babies (huge! both were tall and chubby) until 6 months,
then they kept getting taller but not much heavier. Now both of
them are quite low on the height/weight charts (DD1, 6 years, is
10% and DD2, 2 years is about 40% I think). I don't think the doctors
did that measurement for them when they were babies though.

Anyway, DD1 would only nurse laying down in a dark room.
Seriously. It was a pain in the neck when we traveled but she
managed to get enough. And, unfortunately, she didn't sleep
through the night until we stopped cosleeping and weaned (she
was 2), although once she was on alot of solids she was down
to 1-2 night wakings (around a year). She's a great sleeper now!

I know every baby's different,
but she really seems to be at the bottom of the curve. At 8.5 months,
she has *just* started rolling over regularly (she did it at 3-4months
once in awhile, but then stopped). She can sit up unaided, but needs
to have pillows nearby because she will topple over. No crawling, or
real motion to do so. She does do pushups fairly well. She doesn't
really babble yet, tho she does squak. The paranoid new mom (and
former NICU mom) is thinking the lack of food/sleep is contributing to
her slow development. Her height/weight ratio is less than 50%. Now
I'm extra paranoid that the nutrionist at the devleopmental pedi's
office - whom we see in 2 weeks - is going to push formula or more
solids (at 3.5 months she kept asking 'and what formula do you give
her' and was very concerned she was not getting enough because she was
under the 50% height/weight mark then).

And exactly how are you supposed to get formula into her? Anyway,
she doesn't sound very behind to me. DD1 never crawled, didn't roll
much either. She did get up and walk at 12 months though. The
sleeping does sound like an issue, and again agreeing with Anne,
if she were a little fuller, perhaps she'd sleep better. I think I
just
might try increasing the solids, and going with something high in
fat if you are concerned about weight. I did start both mine on
yougurt at 9 months. Any teeth coming in, a cold or a possible ear
infection that may be affecting her nursing? She also could be
working
on some skills, that usually throws them off for a bit.

Being sleep deprived always makes everything seem worse.
Hang in there!

Mary W.

On Mar 14, 8:11 am, "Mary W." wrote:
On Mar 13, 10:08 pm, "cjra" wrote:





This is more of a vent than anything...

DD has always been a reverse cycler since I started work. About 6
weeks ago I went away for 2.5 days and she started taking more by
bottle at daycare. That lasted the week. Then she started gradually
dropping back again, so much so that now, she's only taking ~6oz
between 7am-5pm. She gets a bit more if I go at lunch to nurse her,
but even then she doesn't nurse much. We try to eliminate distractions
(eg, the dog) when I nurse, and the babysitter feeds her when the
other kids are napping so it's quiet. But she just won't eat. She
nurses more on the weekends, but she's still up all night nursing.

I could handle the nursing every 3 hours at night, but now it' smore
like every hour. And she goes through long awake periods at night. She
has had solids 1x/day, but now I think I should cut them out entirely
to see if that's interfering with her BM uptake.

She sounds alot like my first daughter - she barely took a bottle
and reverse cycled. I agree with Anne, maybe you should increase
the solids. We also did oatmeal (mixed with EBM) and avacado is
a great first food, lots of good fat in that. Also, both my girls were
rolly polly babies (huge! both were tall and chubby) until 6 months,
then they kept getting taller but not much heavier. Now both of
them are quite low on the height/weight charts (DD1, 6 years, is
10% and DD2, 2 years is about 40% I think). I don't think the doctors
did that measurement for them when they were babies though.

Her regular pedi does not, and last visit didn't seem concerned about
her weight. This was at the developmental specialists' office, whom
we've seen as a followup to her problems at birth - concern loss
of oxygen (low likelihood) and extended sedation (higher likelihood).


Anyway, DD1 would only nurse laying down in a dark room.
Seriously. It was a pain in the neck when we traveled but she
managed to get enough.

Ugh! I think I remember you saying that before, and it's my fear .
So far, she WILL nurse in other positions, although distractions can
be a problem. However she will still nurse in the sling with me
walking around a crowded street, provided no one comes to talk to her.
And I have to push DH out of the room a lot because as soon as he's
near she just wants to look at him and not nurse.

And, unfortunately, she didn't sleep
through the night until we stopped cosleeping and weaned (she
was 2), although once she was on alot of solids she was down
to 1-2 night wakings (around a year). She's a great sleeper now!

That's promising. I know the co-sleeping is probably increasing the
night wakings, but we've tried the crib and she still wakes up. Last
night I slept in another room while DH took care of her - she woke up
just as much, but wouldn't take the bottle at all, so at about 1am I
went to nurse her. Left again, he tried again about 4am with the
bottle, I went in at 5:30 and nursed her.

She seems to think middle of the night is play time....but she doesn't
sleep excessively at daycare. Some days more than others, but
generally 2 2 hour naps.

I know every baby's different,
but she really seems to be at the bottom of the curve. At 8.5 months,
she has *just* started rolling over regularly (she did it at 3-4months
once in awhile, but then stopped). She can sit up unaided, but needs
to have pillows nearby because she will topple over. No crawling, or
real motion to do so. She does do pushups fairly well. She doesn't
really babble yet, tho she does squak. The paranoid new mom (and
former NICU mom) is thinking the lack of food/sleep is contributing to
her slow development. Her height/weight ratio is less than 50%. Now
I'm extra paranoid that the nutrionist at the devleopmental pedi's
office - whom we see in 2 weeks - is going to push formula or more
solids (at 3.5 months she kept asking 'and what formula do you give
her' and was very concerned she was not getting enough because she was
under the 50% height/weight mark then).

And exactly how are you supposed to get formula into her?

Exactly. I may be worried over nothing as we haven't gone yet. The
developmental pedi is very pro BF, I was just amazed the nutrionist
kept asking about formula. I'd expect her to be more knowledgeable
about BF. It's not like I have a low supply. Except for the occasional
dip when I've had colds, I've got tons of milk.


Anyway,
she doesn't sound very behind to me. DD1 never crawled, didn't roll
much either. She did get up and walk at 12 months though. The
sleeping does sound like an issue, and again agreeing with Anne,
if she were a little fuller, perhaps she'd sleep better. I think I
just
might try increasing the solids, and going with something high in
fat if you are concerned about weight. I did start both mine on
yougurt at 9 months.

I've given her some full fat yoghurt already. She wasn't too keen on
avocado (which is weird to me since I can devour them) but will try
some more. Maybe I will up the solids more at daycare, now the
babysitter doesn't have any other kids except her own (she's closing
and we're changing daycares in 2 weeks, for now it's just her). Her
interest in solids varies. Some days she'll gobble it down, some days
not at all. I thought that solids didn't offer much at this age
though?

Any teeth coming in, a cold or a possible ear
infection that may be affecting her nursing? She also could be
working
on some skills, that usually throws them off for a bit.

She's got 2 teeth now, tho they still need to come out a bit more.
When those came in she went through a few days of wakefulness - not
really screamy/fussy/cranky like I expected, just refusing to sleep/
nap. So that could be it. I also threw her off on Saturday by having
caffeine I thought I pumped enough, but apparently not. She is
definitely working on new skills with the rolling and push ups.


Being sleep deprived always makes everything seem worse.
Hang in there!

Thanks. That's why last night DH took over, but we have a small house.
I hear her cry and besides I become engorged. I did get more sleep
than I had been though, or at least when I slept it was less
interupted, even if it was short. Alas, when I slept I was having
dreams of DD....

On Mar 14, 1:48 am, "Anne Rogers" wrote:
hmm, tricky one, I do think it's possible she's not having enough solids, I
know that they are basically just for learning etc. before age 1, but even
from that point of view an 8.5mth old would likely be having 2 meals,
kellymom is saying max 2 meals between 7 and 9 months, so 1 is ok, but you
have to look at the whole picture. To me it seems she needs to sleep more,

Yes, she definitely needs to sleep more! (and so does mommy ;-))

she's just not getting enough for good development and that the solids are
not going to be inhibiting her milk intake, so cutting them down isn't the
way to go, the current amount isn't working, so maybe more is something to
try, particularly if you can make them include a moderate amount of milk.
Oatmeal was what worked for both our kids, I think I varied whether or not I
made it with breastmilk, but a portion of oatmeal could have about 2oz of
milk in it. Figure out some other meal that even if it doesn't have
breastmilk in it, has relevant nutrients and maybe that will be a step in
the right direction.

Hmm, ok. I just got some oatmeal, maybe I'll start sending that for
breakfast. I don't want her to have it in place of BM, though.

If she's feeding once and hour in the night, it's possible overnight she's
actually taking less than if she had 3 good feeds spaced through the night,
each time she doesn't fill her tummy, nor is it fully empty the next time.
It's likely to very hard, but I think you have to spread those feeds to min
2hrs between them, it may feel brutal, but it's best for her nutritionally
in the short term and hopefully she'll get the idea that she needs to sleep.

This is something DH suggested. She wouldn't take a bottle overnight,
though she was up all night (I slept in another room, to have a
'break'). DH thinks she's not hungry, but she probably consumed no
more than 15-20ozs in the previous 24 hrs, which is well under the
expected range, so I'm pretty sure she's hungry. ANd when I did go to
nurse her, she was gulping, so it's not just comfort.
She was doing 3 good feeds/night. Basically it went like this:
7pm-ish: nurse to sleep, sometimes 20 mins, sometimes 1 hr+ w/a second
letdown
10-11pm: nurse again, fall back to sleep, usually 20ish mins
2am or so - nurse, fall back to sleep quickly
5-6am nurse, fall back to sleep til 7:15am when we wake her up to get
ready.

Sometimes she wouldn't fall back to sleep after the last nursing, or
would sleep just a few minutes. Now, she still goes down with the 7pm
nursing, but will be up by 9pm, fall back to sleep, then around
midnight or 1am she's awake, nurses, but doesn't fall back to sleep.
Then she'll nurse off and on - just because I offer, really, in an
effort to relax her back to sleep.

DH suggested I not nurse her overnight, that it's just for comfort.
But 1. she'll scream all night and 2. I *know* she's not getting
enough during her awake hours.


You may also need to look at when you give her solids, I don't know all the
details, but on what I currently know, I'd suggest when she arrives at
daycare and about an hour after you nurse her at lunch time.

Right now we're just doing evenings, and 2x on weekends. But I'll talk
to the sitter about offering it in the am and at lunch.


I really wouldn't worry about her milestones, the only one I'd have a
question about is the sitting, I'd ask the doctor about her muscle tone and
her balance, because that does seem a bit slow, but on the other hand, how
much practice is she getting? both my kids got the hang of sitting by a week
of constantly being sat with an adult sat with legs either side of them, but
not actually supporting them, just ready to catch if necessary,

That's pretty much how she sits all the time. I think initially at
daycare she wasn't getting much practice, tho she was at home
(weekends, most evenings). When my mom took her for a week, she had
her sitting up the first day . She *can* sit up just fine, but after
awhile - or just because she's looking back she'll lean and lose her
balance.

by the
calendar that was the same week, at my parents between Christmas and new
year, but it was different ages. Rolling is a funny one, it seems to be
something some kids do once and see no point in doing again. Crawling is a
no worry one too, a full 25% of babies never crawl (maybe it's 20%, but it's
a lot). I also don't see any concern with the babbling, I don't recall
exactly when DS was doing that, but I can pretty much guarantee he wasn't at
that age and he was fairly much text book in talking after that.

As for this ratio thingy, I'm a bit of a skeptic when it comes to that, I
think it's far more genetic than anything else, so why keep plotting it?
some kids are tall and thing, others are shorter and stockier, I think
according to those, my daughter is under 50%, but when you look at her,
she's actually pretty chubby, I think she's just got smaller bones
underneath bringing her total weight down.

I think it's ok for the most part. I'm short and stocky but DH is tall
and skinny, so I'm just hoping she has his build. She *is* very skinny
tho - she's got no bum or belly, tho she's got some fat rolls on her
legs. No sooner she gets those though then she sprouts up again.


I'm sure you know this too, but I'm going to put it into words, given her
complete lack of desire to take a bottle, how on earth would formula help!
The only way it possibly could would be if you weaned her completely, so she
had no choice, but the long term health risks of that are not worth taking,
switching her day time bottles to formula is very unlikely to make any
difference at all and could even make things worse.

Yes, exactly. Giving her formula isn't even an option. I have tons of
milk, it's quite fatty - so it's not like she's only getting thin
foremilk.

Actually that brings another thought to mind, have you experimented with
different drinking vessels for the ebm, she may well managed a lidded cup
(not one with a valve), or even an open cup (google for doidy, a cup shaped
to make it easier for a baby), because the best case scenario would be to up
the amount she has in the day time, but I don't think that alone would
change her night time habits, because I think it is a habit.

We've used the sippy cup with valves and without. She likes the ones
without although she makes a huge mess. She can lap up from the cup w/
o lid as well. However she'll take water from it but if there's milk
in there she throws the cup aside. As for water, I don't give her much
as I don't want her to fill up on it, but it's there to sort of wash
down the solids a bit, and as much for play as anything since she
wont' take the milk. However, if I take the cup of water away, she
goes nuts. it's like she's been on a desert island and is
parched....which is often how I am (I drink a TON of water and HAVE
to have it when I eat). In any case, overall she probably consumes
little more than a few drops, since most of it ends up on her.

Another thought occurs, is there any possibility of a sabbatical from work,
taking some holiday time, or even working part time for a while. I really
don't think you have anything to worry about in terms of her, though there
are things that might help her "thrive" more, but I do worry about you
driving and what not on so little sleep, I'd hate to see you burn out and be
on sick leave and if you can present it to work as if that is a possibility,
maybe they would be receptive to some altered working arrangements?

it's not a viable option. We can't afford it (my entire salary goes to
paying off student loans and other debts) but it's also not an option
my work would consider. They don't have flexibility for offering such
a thing....such is the luck of working for government.

Hmm, ok. I just got some oatmeal, maybe I'll start sending that for
breakfast. I don't want her to have it in place of BM, though.

the absolute ideal is that breast milk consumption only drops off very
slightly between 6mths and a year, but total consumption does increase, so
there's room for a small portion of oatmeal without compromising breastmilk
intake. The reality is that many babies make the change a different ages and
the curve of decreased milk intake will start at different points, as long
as you don't start shovelling it into her 3+ times a day, she'll find her
own balance.

If she's feeding once and hour in the night, it's possible overnight
she's
actually taking less than if she had 3 good feeds spaced through the
night,
each time she doesn't fill her tummy, nor is it fully empty the next
time.
It's likely to very hard, but I think you have to spread those feeds to
min
2hrs between them, it may feel brutal, but it's best for her
nutritionally
in the short term and hopefully she'll get the idea that she needs to
sleep.

DH suggested I not nurse her overnight, that it's just for comfort.
But 1. she'll scream all night and 2. I *know* she's not getting
enough during her awake hours.

but there is somewhere inbetween, training and encouraging sleep, whilst
also feeding appropriately, you might want to search for some of the posts
Jo (midwife from Austrailia) made, her DS is around a year older than your
DD and seemed to exhibit some similar behaviour overnight. Have you tried a
pacifier?

That's pretty much how she sits all the time. I think initially at
daycare she wasn't getting much practice, tho she was at home
(weekends, most evenings). When my mom took her for a week, she had
her sitting up the first day . She *can* sit up just fine, but after
awhile - or just because she's looking back she'll lean and lose her
balance.

I see, I don't have any concerns at all now, of course it takes time for
them to learn to do it for longer periods of time, I'd be tempted to removed
pillows as long as it's not a stone floor she's sat on, the falling is
helpful too, it encourages rolling and steps towards crawling.

I think it's ok for the most part. I'm short and stocky but DH is tall
and skinny, so I'm just hoping she has his build. She *is* very skinny
tho - she's got no bum or belly, tho she's got some fat rolls on her
legs. No sooner she gets those though then she sprouts up again.

sounds absolutely fine, you may be dealing with a baby who is not within the
interquartile range, but you can tell she's naturally thin, but has no
worrying lack of fat on her skeleton either, bear in mind, that my DS at
this age was on the 0.4th centile for weight, also clearly natrually thin,
but rarely had fat rolls, he was watched quite closely, but no one pushed
either fomula or solids, I think we can get very tied up in wanting our
babies to be normal instead of remembering there is a huge range of normal
and what we really need to spot is any signs of abnormality, but from all
you've said, there are none and doctors seem worse than parents in trying to
drive every child closer to average.


I'm sure you know this too, but I'm going to put it into words, given her
complete lack of desire to take a bottle, how on earth would formula
help!
The only way it possibly could would be if you weaned her completely, so
she
had no choice, but the long term health risks of that are not worth
taking,
switching her day time bottles to formula is very unlikely to make any
difference at all and could even make things worse.

Yes, exactly. Giving her formula isn't even an option. I have tons of
milk, it's quite fatty - so it's not like she's only getting thin
foremilk.

We've used the sippy cup with valves and without. She likes the ones
without although she makes a huge mess. She can lap up from the cup w/
o lid as well. However she'll take water from it but if there's milk
in there she throws the cup aside. As for water, I don't give her much
as I don't want her to fill up on it, but it's there to sort of wash
down the solids a bit, and as much for play as anything since she
wont' take the milk. However, if I take the cup of water away, she
goes nuts. it's like she's been on a desert island and is
parched....which is often how I am (I drink a TON of water and HAVE
to have it when I eat). In any case, overall she probably consumes
little more than a few drops, since most of it ends up on her.

has it occured to you that as your milk is so rich, that she may need less
total volume and require the water to make up her liquid needs. I think you
said in your response to Mary, that some days she's only taking 15-20oz,
maybe you are at one extreme of normal and that plus water mixes up to be
the same as someone elses 25oz?

Another thought occurs, is there any possibility of a sabbatical from
work,
taking some holiday time, or even working part time for a while. I really
don't think you have anything to worry about in terms of her, though
there
are things that might help her "thrive" more, but I do worry about you
driving and what not on so little sleep, I'd hate to see you burn out and
be
on sick leave and if you can present it to work as if that is a
possibility,
maybe they would be receptive to some altered working arrangements?

it's not a viable option. We can't afford it (my entire salary goes to
paying off student loans and other debts) but it's also not an option
my work would consider. They don't have flexibility for offering such
a thing....such is the luck of working for government.

ah well, it was worth a try.

good luck

Anne

She seems to think middle of the night is play time....but she doesn't
sleep excessively at daycare. Some days more than others, but
generally 2 2 hour naps.

actually I think this is quite a good amount of sleep during the day and
certainly not in the realm of poor napping at day leading to bad sleep at
night. It's probably actually a good thing she's not making up for lack of
night time sleep by sleeping at daycare, if she were, she'd really be
missing out on an awful lot of stimultion.
Anne

On Mar 14, 1:03 pm, "Anne Rogers" wrote:
Hmm, ok. I just got some oatmeal, maybe I'll start sending that for
breakfast. I don't want her to have it in place of BM, though.

the absolute ideal is that breast milk consumption only drops off very
slightly between 6mths and a year, but total consumption does increase, so
there's room for a small portion of oatmeal without compromising breastmilk
intake. The reality is that many babies make the change a different ages and
the curve of decreased milk intake will start at different points, as long
as you don't start shovelling it into her 3+ times a day, she'll find her
own balance.







If she's feeding once and hour in the night, it's possible overnight
she's
actually taking less than if she had 3 good feeds spaced through the
night,
each time she doesn't fill her tummy, nor is it fully empty the next
time.
It's likely to very hard, but I think you have to spread those feeds to
min
2hrs between them, it may feel brutal, but it's best for her
nutritionally
in the short term and hopefully she'll get the idea that she needs to
sleep.
DH suggested I not nurse her overnight, that it's just for comfort.
But 1. she'll scream all night and 2. I *know* she's not getting
enough during her awake hours.

but there is somewhere inbetween, training and encouraging sleep, whilst
also feeding appropriately, you might want to search for some of the posts
Jo (midwife from Austrailia) made, her DS is around a year older than your
DD and seemed to exhibit some similar behaviour overnight. Have you tried a
pacifier?


hah! A pacifier. I try about once every couple of weeks. Just for
kicks. I put it in her mouth, she looks at me with this deadpan look -
and not quite but I could swear this is what she's doing - rolls her
eyes and spits it out. She sucks anything and everything else, but not
a pacifier. And we've tried many different kinds. I had given up for
awhile, and part of me was glad it wasn't something she'd be addicted
to, but try again when she appears to be doing a lot of comfort
nursing.


That's pretty much how she sits all the time. I think initially at
daycare she wasn't getting much practice, tho she was at home
(weekends, most evenings). When my mom took her for a week, she had
her sitting up the first day . She *can* sit up just fine, but after
awhile - or just because she's looking back she'll lean and lose her
balance.

I see, I don't have any concerns at all now, of course it takes time for
them to learn to do it for longer periods of time, I'd be tempted to removed
pillows as long as it's not a stone floor she's sat on, the falling is
helpful too, it encourages rolling and steps towards crawling.

it's hard wood with a sisal rug. I have some blankets on that to make
it softer for sitting, but she's already banged her head hard 2x. I'm
not quite ready to teach her that lesson.


I think it's ok for the most part. I'm short and stocky but DH is tall
and skinny, so I'm just hoping she has his build. She *is* very skinny
tho - she's got no bum or belly, tho she's got some fat rolls on her
legs. No sooner she gets those though then she sprouts up again.

sounds absolutely fine, you may be dealing with a baby who is not within the
interquartile range, but you can tell she's naturally thin, but has no
worrying lack of fat on her skeleton either, bear in mind, that my DS at
this age was on the 0.4th centile for weight, also clearly natrually thin,
but rarely had fat rolls, he was watched quite closely, but no one pushed
either fomula or solids, I think we can get very tied up in wanting our
babies to be normal instead of remembering there is a huge range of normal
and what we really need to spot is any signs of abnormality, but from all
you've said, there are none and doctors seem worse than parents in trying to
drive every child closer to average.


Could be. I'm a new mom, so of course I'm paranoid ;-)

I'm sure you know this too, but I'm going to put it into words, given her
complete lack of desire to take a bottle, how on earth would formula
help!
The only way it possibly could would be if you weaned her completely, so
she
had no choice, but the long term health risks of that are not worth
taking,
switching her day time bottles to formula is very unlikely to make any
difference at all and could even make things worse.

Yes, exactly. Giving her formula isn't even an option. I have tons of
milk, it's quite fatty - so it's not like she's only getting thin
foremilk.
We've used the sippy cup with valves and without. She likes the ones
without although she makes a huge mess. She can lap up from the cup w/
o lid as well. However she'll take water from it but if there's milk
in there she throws the cup aside. As for water, I don't give her much
as I don't want her to fill up on it, but it's there to sort of wash
down the solids a bit, and as much for play as anything since she
wont' take the milk. However, if I take the cup of water away, she
goes nuts. it's like she's been on a desert island and is
parched....which is often how I am (I drink a TON of water and HAVE
to have it when I eat). In any case, overall she probably consumes
little more than a few drops, since most of it ends up on her.

has it occured to you that as your milk is so rich, that she may need less
total volume and require the water to make up her liquid needs. I think you
said in your response to Mary, that some days she's only taking 15-20oz,
maybe you are at one extreme of normal and that plus water mixes up to be
the same as someone elses 25oz?

Hmmm, I never thought of that. Since I only know my breastmilk, and
have never really seen anyone else's, I can't say. How likely would
such a thing be? I've never heard/read about that.

As for water,t he other thing she does is suck- vigorously - on a wet
washcloth. When she's eating solids I put the wet washcloth on the
table so I can quickly wipe her off. She grabs it, sticks it in her
mouth and sucks like she's desperate for it. She sucks loads of
things, but not like that. It does help to get her face wiped off,
which she otherwise hates. By the time she's done sucking it she's
wiped her face herself...

I'm going to try going to solids 2x/day for awhile.

On Mar 14, 1:06 pm, "Anne Rogers" wrote:
She seems to think middle of the night is play time....but she doesn't
sleep excessively at daycare. Some days more than others, but
generally 2 2 hour naps.

actually I think this is quite a good amount of sleep during the day and
certainly not in the realm of poor napping at day leading to bad sleep at
night. It's probably actually a good thing she's not making up for lack of
night time sleep by sleeping at daycare, if she were, she'd really be
missing out on an awful lot of stimultion.
Anne

Yeah, I think it's fine at daycare - altho she eats too little IMO.
But she doesn't sleep as much for us on the weekends. We're lucky to
get one hour out of her per day.

"cjra" wrote in message
oups.com...
snip
As for water,t he other thing she does is suck- vigorously - on a wet
washcloth. When she's eating solids I put the wet washcloth on the
table so I can quickly wipe her off. She grabs it, sticks it in her
mouth and sucks like she's desperate for it. She sucks loads of
things, but not like that. It does help to get her face wiped off,
which she otherwise hates. By the time she's done sucking it she's
wiped her face herself...

I'm going to try going to solids 2x/day for awhile.


My DD also does this (she's now 12 mo, but she's done it at least since 6mo,
I'm sure). My mum says all babies do this.

Liz