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#21
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Bottles past 1 year?
On Jan 9, 1:36�pm, cjra wrote:
This is another cultural question of sorts (since the last one was so much fun) - DD never liked bottles. It was hell to get her to take one for daycare, and at 13 months she refused them for good (or so I thought). But she also refused cow's milk. Not a big deal, she has enough dairy and still nurses. When she got sick over Thanksgiving, she wouldn't eat or drink, and shortly after she recovered she was interested in cow's milk so I gave her some - she will drink it out of a cup or a bottle, but not a sippy cup. So when out of the house I give it to her in a bottle. It's the only time she has one, and she's not attached to it, but it's the only way to give her milk without a mess, so I'm ok with that (it's kind of ironic given the hassle we had to get her to take a bottle at 3 months). We saw her developmental specialist today (18 month check up) and she made a bit of a fuss about the bottle. I explained the above, she grudgingly said ok but insisted I really need to get her off of it (she has one usually only in the am on the way to daycare). �But what's the big deal about them? I guess I could see if she refused to drink from a cup, but she happily does that, I'm just not going to give her a cup in the car, and it gets her to drink cow's milk (which means less mommy's milk). �And she does use a sippy cup, but only for water (she won't tolerate anything else in her sippy cup). However, in Switzerland (and I also noticed this in London and in France), I've seen kids as old as 3 or �4 with a bottle. They even have 'toddler formula' (which I tried giving DD but she hated). Our 4 yr old nephew has a bottle before bed (and uses a pacifier), many of our friends kids drink from a bottle at dinner. I'm fairly sure all these kids can drink fine from a cup, but they also use a bottle. Sippy cups are sold, but I don't recall seeing a lot of kids with them. �Obviously, doctors there are not making a fuss about older kids with bottles (or all the parents i've seen ignore such advice). So what's so evil about the ocassional bottle? Some people just have preconceived notions as to what is proper and they can't shake them or even fathom that others don't hold the same opinion. lol. All of my kids had their bottles until close to 2 years because they used sippy cups for literally sipping and I wanted them to get their servings of milk in each day. The would take a sip and set it down and forget about it. They didn't walk around all day with bottles or pacifiers or anything. I handed them their milk and they consumed it within 5-10 minutes 3 times a day. We took pacifiers away around 18 months, and even prior to that they only got it before bed and spit it out while sleeping, and then waited to do the bottle until closer to 2. No problems in that respect for us. Don't worry about what others think about your 18-month-old having either a pacifier or a bottle. My sister had to deny her children pacifiers because her husband hated seeing 3- and 4-year-olds with them and he was convinced, and in turn convinced her, that that was just going to happen if they got one. As most of us know, that isn't the case for everyone. |
#22
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Bottles past 1 year?
cjra wrote:
[snip] However, in Switzerland (and I also noticed this in London and in France), I've seen kids as old as 3 or 4 with a bottle. They even have 'toddler formula' (which I tried giving DD but she hated). Our 4 [snip] I wouldn't put too much emphasis on "toddler formula". It's a marketing tool. Basically in the UK, and I think the rest of Europe, manufacturers are not allowed to have special offers or free samples of infant formula - ie what newborns drink. So someone came up with the idea of "follow on milk" for older babies. This is *not* included in the ban on promotion of infant formula: so if you get a "baby samples pack for 4 months old, it can also include a free sample of "follow-on milk". -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#23
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Bottles past 1 year?
On Jan 9, 10:36*am, cjra wrote:
So what's so evil about the ocassional bottle? Nothing's inherently evil about the occasional bottle, but there are a couple of problems with prolonged bottle use. One that several people have mentioned is tooth decay, especially for kids who wander around all day with a bottle in hand or have one just before bed without brushing teeth. The other is that prolonged bottle use has been tied to later obesity, which in the US is clearly a significant problem right now. It sounds like the way you're using the bottle creates very little risk of either of those consequences. What I've noticed with a lot of parents who are reluctant to get their 12-18 month olds off the bottle is that since they drink so much less from a cup, the parents are afraid that they need the bottle to get enough fluids. Given the link of bottles with pediatric obesity, my guess is that they're drinking too much with the bottle (as they've now transitioned to a solid diet) and are probably doing just fine with cups/sippys. How necessary is it for her to drink milk in the car? Generally kids only need 12-16oz (360-480ml) milk a day, and if she's breastfeeding or eating other dairy then she needs even less. I've seen a lot more kids who have problems from too much dairy than from too little. And yes, to agree with the poster who explained that "toddler formula" is a pure gimmick to allow formula companies (which I'm not fond of) to market in places where they're not supposed to market. Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel and the Bug, 4 years old and something brewing, 4/08 |
#24
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Bottles past 1 year?
Akuvikate wrote: What I've noticed with a lot of parents who are reluctant to get their 12-18 month olds off the bottle is that since they drink so much less from a cup, the parents are afraid that they need the bottle to get enough fluids. Given the link of bottles with pediatric obesity, my guess is that they're drinking too much with the bottle (as they've now transitioned to a solid diet) and are probably doing just fine with cups/sippys. How necessary is it for her to drink milk in the car? Generally kids only need 12-16oz (360-480ml) milk a day, and if she's breastfeeding or eating other dairy then she needs even less. She drinks maybe 6-8oz of cow's milk per day (the morning bottle is about 3-4oz, then she has some in a cup with dinner). She eats loads of yoghurt and cheese tho. The milk is new, she only started drinking it about 5 weeks ago. She still nurses at night, tho I've noticed on the nights she sleeps thru, she's more likely to want the am bottle. She doesn't take it everyday. It's not necessary in the car, just that it's usually in the am on the way to daycare that she wants it. I'm not at all concerned with obesity at the moment, as she's at the bottom of the charts and the nutritionist wants us to up the fats in her diet. It's interesting tho, as DH and I discussed this tonight. All his friends' kids in Switzerland and France had bottles well past a year and as late as 4. Apparently they don't have the same medical advice. Dd could take or leave the bottle, it's just been convenient in the morning, and also the last 2 nights as I was in hospital with emergency surgery, so away from her and no night nursing. She got bottles of milk (4 oz) at night and in the am and sucked them down fast. |
#25
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Bottles past 1 year?
On Jan 9, 6:58*pm, Anne Rogers wrote:
Neither of them said "You should be weaning", but I had talked about how over Thanksgiving she went through a round the clock nursing thing due to being sick, and that we're still trying to go back to 1-2x/day and that's when she said that I really need to work on getting her off the breast more. So she may have just been agreeing with me about cutting back, but by some other things she said, it sounded more like she was encouraging total weaning.- Hide quoted text - Surely a more fitting response would be "aren't you glad she was breastfeeding, you could be sure she was getting nutrition and hydration as well as helping her get over the illness". You've been away from home, it's been Christmas, plus 18mths seems to be a fairly common age to increase nursing without all the other disturbances. If you want to get back to your old pattern, that's fine, but I don't see any reason why you "should" get back to that pattern or even less, unless it's what you want to do. Restricting nursing is a weaning technique, so you shouldn't be too surprised if your efforts to move to 1-2x a day turn into complete weaning, but equally some toddlers will settle on this pattern for a year or more. The first nurse whom I talked to raved about how great it was I was still nursing, esp when she was sick, how if I hadn't been how much harder it would have been, etc. I just didn't want to get into a big discussion about it right then. I'd already been there almost 2 hours and wasn't feeling well myself (it was later that day I ended up in surgery). I'm not opposed to weaning at this point, honestly. I'm not pushing it, but I won't be heartbroken if DD weans. Alas, it doesn't look like that's not happening. Despite not having me around for about 60 hours (2 nights and 3 days), she was more than happy to nurse on Friday night when I came home. The problem is now finding a position that is possible given my incision. |
#26
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Bottles past 1 year?
On Jan 10, 8:17�pm, Akuvikate wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:36�am, cjra wrote: So what's so evil about the ocassional bottle? Nothing's inherently evil about the occasional bottle, but there are a couple of problems with prolonged bottle use. �One that several people have mentioned is tooth decay, especially for kids who wander around all day with a bottle in hand or have one just before bed without brushing teeth. �The other is that prolonged bottle use has been tied to later obesity, which in the US is clearly a significant problem right now. �It sounds like the way you're using the bottle creates very little risk of either of those consequences. What I've noticed with a lot of parents who are reluctant to get their 12-18 month olds off the bottle is that since they drink so much less from a cup, the parents are afraid that they need the bottle to get enough fluids. �Given the link of bottles with pediatric obesity, my guess is that they're drinking too much with the bottle (as they've now transitioned to a solid diet) and are probably doing just fine with cups/sippys. �How necessary is it for her to drink milk in the car? �Generally kids only need 12-16oz (360-480ml) milk a day, and if she's breastfeeding or eating other dairy then she needs even less. I've seen a lot more kids who have problems from too much dairy than from too little. And yes, to agree with the poster who explained that "toddler formula" is a pure gimmick to allow formula companies (which I'm not fond of) to market in places where they're not supposed to market. Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel and the Bug, 4 years old and something brewing, 4/08 I don't buy into the relationship with obesity later. There are many more realistic reasons as to why obesity is an epidemic.....two working parents who have fallen prey to convenience foods with no time to cook from scratch on weekdays any longer, children whose parents are too scared to let them outside to run free due to the perceived danger/threats compared to yesteryear, video games, TV, etc. All of my kids have had their bottles 'til 2 and my older 2 are skinny minnies, in adjustable-waist pants or slims, and I dare predict they'll never have a weight problem - genetics of the game. None of them had any issues with having it taken away either because it was never a comfort item or an item they held onto regularly. they were also given sippy cups at intervals throughout the day to practice with on a regular basis at meals. My last baby loved sports cap water bottles to drink his water out of and straw thermos-type water bottles we found. They leak, so I just never filled the container up enough to where it would leak if left on its side. If left directly upside down though it would. Three bottles a day offered up at 10-minute intervals each still wouldn't contribute to dental malformation either - that is largely genetics as well. |
#27
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Bottles past 1 year?
cjra wrote:
Akuvikate wrote: What I've noticed with a lot of parents who are reluctant to get their 12-18 month olds off the bottle is that since they drink so much less from a cup, the parents are afraid that they need the bottle to get enough fluids. Given the link of bottles with pediatric obesity, my guess is that they're drinking too much with the bottle (as they've now transitioned to a solid diet) and are probably doing just fine with cups/sippys. How necessary is it for her to drink milk in the car? Generally kids only need 12-16oz (360-480ml) milk a day, and if she's breastfeeding or eating other dairy then she needs even less. She drinks maybe 6-8oz of cow's milk per day (the morning bottle is about 3-4oz, then she has some in a cup with dinner). She eats loads of yoghurt and cheese tho. The milk is new, she only started drinking it about 5 weeks ago. She still nurses at night, tho I've noticed on the nights she sleeps thru, she's more likely to want the am bottle. She doesn't take it everyday. It's not necessary in the car, just that it's usually in the am on the way to daycare that she wants it. I'm not at all concerned with obesity at the moment, as she's at the bottom of the charts and the nutritionist wants us to up the fats in her diet. It's interesting tho, as DH and I discussed this tonight. All his friends' kids in Switzerland and France had bottles well past a year and as late as 4. Apparently they don't have the same medical advice. Dd could take or leave the bottle, it's just been convenient in the morning, and also the last 2 nights as I was in hospital with emergency surgery, so away from her and no night nursing. She got bottles of milk (4 oz) at night and in the am and sucked them down fast. I hope you are recovering well from your surgery and are not in pain, that sounds scary! I think there are two facets to extended bottle or breast feeding. One is the nutrition they receive and the other is the comfort. I had enormous babies who fined down to petite or just light-for-height kids and I nursed each of them as long as possible then gave them formula and/or cows milk for some time after that. My youngest child received a full bottles of cow's milk on rising and before bed up until he was almost four and consumed 400 - 500 ml per day for at least the last 2 years, more when he took a bottle before his afternoon nap up until he was 3 years old. If I'd been able to nurse him that long I would have but bottles served the same purpose. Abandoning bottles meant he no longer wanted milk so he gets most of his calcium from yoghurt and cheese these days. None of my children have had dental caries and I put that down to good dental hygiene and fluoridated water. They all have a BMI of 20 or less and they all eat a variety of foods. While they got so much of their nutritional needs from milk or formula their other food intakes were less but once weaned they each gradually increased their variety and quantities of new foods. Now they eat more variety of food types than most of their peers, which is a source of some amusement for my teenagers. I buy 4% whole milk for the household because the only person who needs to watch her fat intake is me and I drink very little milk. I really don't see a problem with that when the child's diet is healthy and based on natural, unprocessed foods anyway. Trust your instincts and let your daughter wean herself from you and her bottles when she's ready. |
#28
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Pacifiers and teeth? (was Bottles past 1 year?)
enigma wrote:
[...] some people think that sucking on a nipple or pacifier past a certain age (which varies quite a bit) will makes the teeth crooked, but that's fairly unsubstantiated. Really? I've recently been looking this up on Pubmed as our dentist has advised us to get rid of the dummy (pacifier) now that my son is three, and I certainly seem to be finding several studies linking prolonged pacifier use with certain teeth malformations. Of course, I only have the abstracts of the studies plus I'm not a dentist, so it's hard for me to spot possible flaws in them. If you know of anything substantial to say that all the research in this area is so flawed I can safely ignore it, please do tell me - I'd love to hear that, because I'm finding this a real dilemma at the moment (he is clearly not ready to give up his dummy without a big fight, and it would be marvellous to find out that that isn't necessary after all!) All the best, Sarah -- http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com "That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell |
#29
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Pacifiers and teeth? (was Bottles past 1 year?)
"Sarah Vaughan" wrote in message ... enigma wrote: [...] some people think that sucking on a nipple or pacifier past a certain age (which varies quite a bit) will makes the teeth crooked, but that's fairly unsubstantiated. Really? I've recently been looking this up on Pubmed as our dentist has advised us to get rid of the dummy (pacifier) now that my son is three, and I certainly seem to be finding several studies linking prolonged pacifier use with certain teeth malformations. Of course, I only have the abstracts of the studies plus I'm not a dentist, so it's hard for me to spot possible flaws in them. If you know of anything substantial to say that all the research in this area is so flawed I can safely ignore it, please do tell me - I'd love to hear that, because I'm finding this a real dilemma at the moment (he is clearly not ready to give up his dummy without a big fight, and it would be marvellous to find out that that isn't necessary after all!) Have you thought about him using the dummy to "pay" for something he really wants. I have a friend who would have said the same as you when her child was 3 (nearly 4 and an August baby, so was within a few months of starting school). She wanted a watch and the very nice lady in argos played along, taking the dummy as "payment". The child only once asked for it, was poited ut that she had a watch and never mentioned it again as far as I know. It was much easier than she thought it would be. He's old enough that he could make that decision if you give it. Debbie |
#30
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Pacifiers and teeth? (was Bottles past 1 year?)
Sarah Vaughan wrote in
: enigma wrote: [...] some people think that sucking on a nipple or pacifier past a certain age (which varies quite a bit) will makes the teeth crooked, but that's fairly unsubstantiated. Really? I've recently been looking this up on Pubmed as our dentist has advised us to get rid of the dummy (pacifier) now that my son is three, and I certainly seem to be finding several studies linking prolonged pacifier use with certain teeth malformations. Of course, I only have the abstracts of the studies plus I'm not a dentist, so it's hard for me to spot possible flaws in them. If you know of anything substantial to say that all the research in this area is so flawed I can safely ignore it, please do tell me - I'd love to hear that, because I'm finding this a real dilemma at the moment (he is clearly not ready to give up his dummy without a big fight, and it would be marvellous to find out that that isn't necessary after all!) is he actually sucking on it or does he just hold it in his mouth? that makes a difference. i sucked my thumb until i was 11-12 years old (at night. i'd wake up with it in my mouth. it wasn't a conscious thing) & i have what my dentist calls "perfect bite", but i wasn't actually *sucking* on my thumb. it was just in my mouth. i remember when i was 4 my mother was told i'd ruin my teeth & she got very naggy & tried all kinds of things to make me stop. i'm pretty sure this is where i developed my taste for Tabasco sauce... anyway, the more pressure to stop, the more likely the child is to resist stopping. so, i'd advise *no nagging* and try not to even mention it. just don't make keeping track of the pacifier your job. make it his. if he loses it, oh well. don't get him another. but don't just take it away either. some kids really need the comfort longer than others. lee |
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