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Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 23rd 10, 04:35 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
Steven Bornfeld[_2_]
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Posts: 7
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

On 10/20/2010 1:19 AM, Bob Officer wrote:
does someone point out that the practice stopped a long time ago,
along with Electro-Shock-Therapy


ECT for depression is still used:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ele...herapy/MY00129

Steve



--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
  #12  
Old October 23rd 10, 04:38 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
Steven Bornfeld[_2_]
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Posts: 7
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

On 10/22/2010 1:30 AM, carole wrote:

Depends on whether you're talking about medical intervention for emergencies or long-term treatment of chronic disease.
Conventional medicine is good for the former but alternative good for the latter.




Assuming this dichotomy exists, why do you think it exists? What
examples would you give?

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
  #13  
Old October 23rd 10, 04:39 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
dr_jeff
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Posts: 293
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

On 10/23/10 11:35 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 10/20/2010 1:19 AM, Bob Officer wrote:
does someone point out that the practice stopped a long time ago,
along with Electro-Shock-Therapy


ECT for depression is still used:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ele...herapy/MY00129

Steve


And that's a good thing, if all other treatments fail. ECT is effective
in some cases where other treatments fail. Apparently it is used on
about 1,000,000 people a year, throughout the world, according to the
wikipedia article (the article cited a presentation at a ECT discussion
at Mass. Gen. Hospital).

Jeff
  #14  
Old October 23rd 10, 07:36 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
Steven Bornfeld[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

On 10/23/2010 11:39 AM, dr_jeff wrote:
On 10/23/10 11:35 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
On 10/20/2010 1:19 AM, Bob Officer wrote:
does someone point out that the practice stopped a long time ago,
along with Electro-Shock-Therapy


ECT for depression is still used:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/ele...herapy/MY00129

Steve


And that's a good thing, if all other treatments fail. ECT is effective
in some cases where other treatments fail. Apparently it is used on
about 1,000,000 people a year, throughout the world, according to the
wikipedia article (the article cited a presentation at a ECT discussion
at Mass. Gen. Hospital).

Jeff



Yeah, I've heard they've been able to minimize the memory loss and
other cognitive sequellae.
On another note (I've lost the link) I saw something on Medscape
yesterday about a study indicating the second generation antipsychotics
work no better than the old neurileptics. I don't think they evaluated
commparable rates of extrapyramidal effects, and I don't remember what
the selection process was for the patient population.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
  #15  
Old October 24th 10, 11:21 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
john[_5_]
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Posts: 822
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science


"Steven Bornfeld" wrote

Yeah, I've heard they've been able to minimize the memory loss and other
cognitive sequellae.
On another note (I've lost the link) I saw something on Medscape yesterday
about a study indicating the second generation antipsychotics work no
better than the old neurileptics. I don't think they evaluated
commparable rates of extrapyramidal effects, and I don't remember what the
selection process was for the patient population.

Steve



None of them work http://whale.to/a/whitaker_h.html
http://whale.to/drugs/america.html http://whale.to/a/jackson_h.html

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001



  #16  
Old October 25th 10, 12:58 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
carole
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Posts: 251
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science


"Steven Bornfeld" wrote in message ...
On 10/22/2010 1:30 AM, carole wrote:

Depends on whether you're talking about medical intervention for emergencies or long-term treatment of chronic disease.
Conventional medicine is good for the former but alternative good for the latter.




Assuming this dichotomy exists, why do you think it exists? What examples would you give?

Steve


Obviously Steve, success stories abound about people who get treated by paramedics, at hospital outpatient clinics, bones get set,
cuts stitched up, and various operations and interventions to save lives. However, when it comes to treatment of chronic disease
such as cancer, ms, asthma, rheumatic, arthritic and so on, not so good.

Allopathic medicine has its limitations. I was facing a tonsilectomy myself at one stage but decided instead to see a chiropractor
which fixed the problem. I used to be asthmatic and had allergies to housedust - all fixed after a few years on cellsalts.
Medicine is a racket. In my opinion there is a conspiracy to keep cheap and simple cures from the people in favour of lifelong
dependence on pharmaceutical drugs.
There are many examples of cures to diseases being suppressed, although none of the skeptics in this ng would agree. They all seem
to follow along with the establishment mantra about alternative medicine being useless while allopathic can do no wrong.


The Medical Racket by Wade Frazier
The West has engaged in a war against women for thousands of years; women are ... The Developing American Medical Racket The Cancer
Racket Begins Royal Rife and ...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16021097/T...y-Wade-Frazier


The truth about the Rockefeller drug empire
The Drug Story - by Hans Ruesch
http://www.davidicke.net/medicalarch...drugstory.html
"The history of the how the Rockefellers and their stooges in the Food and Drug Administration, the US Public Health Service, the
Federal Trade Commission, the Better Business Bureau, the Army Medical Corps, the Navy Bureau of Medicine and thousands of health
officers all over the country, should combine to put out of business all forms of therapy that discourage the use of drugs. How the
business with disease makes grants to medical colleges in exchange for a curriculum that drug based medicine."


Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-science/8269/
"Much of what medical researchers conclude in their studies is misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong. So why are doctors-to a
striking extent-still drawing upon misinformation in their everyday practice? Dr. John Ioannidis has spent his career challenging
his peers by exposing their bad science."


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"The members of skeptical societies often operate from a faith, a faith known today as scientism, which is the worship of science,
believing its methods to be the only valid path to knowledge." --Wade Frazier, The Medical Racket.
http://www.ahealedplanet.net/medicine.htm


  #17  
Old October 25th 10, 01:06 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science


"Bob Officer" [email protected] wrote in message ...
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:08:47 +0100, in misc.health.alternative,
"john" wrote:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-science/8269/


snip of stolen material

This time scudmore removed the copyright notice. but he is still a
thief.


But bob, you have broken copyright yourself many times, by quoting something I said (below).
And the link doesn't work either - so who's the dummy now?



--
Bob Officer

"One of my pet hates is being made an idiot
out of ...but you go right ahead"
Carole Hubbard in Message-ID:
. com



--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"There are known knowns - there are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns - that is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns - there are things we don't know we don't know." -- Donald Rumsfeld




  #18  
Old October 25th 10, 06:01 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
john[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 822
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

"There are known knowns - there are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns - that is to say, there are things that we know
we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns - there are things we don't know we
don't know." -- Donald Rumsfeld




he gets stick for that but I have to say he is right


  #19  
Old October 25th 10, 10:35 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

On 10/25/10 7:58 AM, carole wrote:
"Steven wrote in message ...
On 10/22/2010 1:30 AM, carole wrote:

Depends on whether you're talking about medical intervention for emergencies or long-term treatment of chronic disease.
Conventional medicine is good for the former but alternative good for the latter.




Assuming this dichotomy exists, why do you think it exists? What examples would you give?

Steve


Obviously Steve, success stories abound about people who get treated by paramedics, at hospital outpatient clinics, bones get set,
cuts stitched up, and various operations and interventions to save lives. However, when it comes to treatment of chronic disease
such as cancer, ms, asthma, rheumatic, arthritic and so on, not so good.


If you consider that most people with cancer are cured, then it is
pretty good. Not as good people would like, but better than anything else.

Allopathic medicine has its limitations. I was facing a tonsilectomy myself at one stage but decided instead to see a chiropractor
which fixed the problem.


No. Chiropractic can't "fix" tonsillitis. You got better on your own.

I used to be asthmatic and had allergies to housedust - all fixed after a few years on cellsalts.


In other words, you got better on your own.

Medicine is a racket. In my opinion there is a conspiracy to keep cheap and simple cures from the people in favour of lifelong
dependence on pharmaceutical drugs.


That's your opinion. Back it up with facts.

There are many examples of cures to diseases being suppressed, although none of the skeptics in this ng would agree.


Please, share some of those cures that are being suppressed. Please
provide evidence both that the cures work (good evidence, not just
anecdotes). And, evidence that the cures are being suppressed.

They all seem
to follow along with the establishment mantra about alternative medicine being useless while allopathic can do no wrong.


I don't recall anyone saying allopathic medicine can do no wrong. All
things have risks, allopathic medicine included.

Of course, con-med (aka conjecture-based medicine or alternative
medicine) is, by definition, unproven.

rest of garbage deleted

Jeff
  #20  
Old October 27th 10, 11:04 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science


"dr_jeff" wrote in message ...
On 10/25/10 7:58 AM, carole wrote:
"Steven wrote in message ...
On 10/22/2010 1:30 AM, carole wrote:

Depends on whether you're talking about medical intervention for emergencies or long-term treatment of chronic disease.
Conventional medicine is good for the former but alternative good for the latter.




Assuming this dichotomy exists, why do you think it exists? What examples would you give?

Steve


Obviously Steve, success stories abound about people who get treated by paramedics, at hospital outpatient clinics, bones get
set,
cuts stitched up, and various operations and interventions to save lives. However, when it comes to treatment of chronic disease
such as cancer, ms, asthma, rheumatic, arthritic and so on, not so good.


If you consider that most people with cancer are cured, then it is pretty good. Not as good people would like, but better than
anything else.

Allopathic medicine has its limitations. I was facing a tonsilectomy myself at one stage but decided instead to see a
chiropractor
which fixed the problem.


No. Chiropractic can't "fix" tonsillitis. You got better on your own.


Haha ...you can't admit it or handle it.


I used to be asthmatic and had allergies to housedust - all fixed after a few years on cellsalts.


In other words, you got better on your own.


You're a real dufus.


Medicine is a racket. In my opinion there is a conspiracy to keep cheap and simple cures from the people in favour of lifelong
dependence on pharmaceutical drugs.


That's your opinion. Back it up with facts.


Get over yourself.


There are many examples of cures to diseases being suppressed, although none of the skeptics in this ng would agree.


Please, share some of those cures that are being suppressed. Please provide evidence both that the cures work (good evidence, not
just anecdotes). And, evidence that the cures are being suppressed.


There was a website called http://www.cancer-tutor.org with all sorts of cancer cures, but it has been suppressed.


They all seem
to follow along with the establishment mantra about alternative medicine being useless while allopathic can do no wrong.


I don't recall anyone saying allopathic medicine can do no wrong. All things have risks, allopathic medicine included.


You make all sorts of allowances for scientific medicine - the massive amounts spent on research, the minimal returns, the
pharmaceutical "me too" drugs that don't do anything more than the cheaper ones, the scientific studies that are mostly flawed, and
the vaccinations that probably cause autism in 1/100 kids.
Yet OTOH you bag alternative medicine relentlessly and call it rot, rubbish and crap because there are no scientific studies.


Of course, con-med (aka conjecture-based medicine or alternative medicine) is, by definition, unproven.


So is 90% of science based medicine with its flawed studies.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-science/8269/
Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science
"Much of what medical researchers conclude in their studies is misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong. So why are doctors-to a
striking extent-still drawing upon misinformation in their everyday practice? Dr. John Ioannidis has spent his career challenging
his peers by exposing their bad science."


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Most people have built in "slides" that short circuit the mind's critical examination process when it comes to certain sensitive
topics. "Slides" is a CIA term for a conditioned type of response which dead-ends a person's thinking, and terminates debate or
examination of the topic. For example, the mention of the word "conspiracy" usually solicits a slide response with many
eople. -Fritz Springmeier (author)




 




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