Soy-based infant formula

Josh wrote:

I'm a former consulting editor (1983-1987) of the JOURNAL OF PEDIATRIC
ENDOCRINOLOGY and a strong proponent of breastfeeding.

After 15 infants in Israel were hospitalized this past week with what looks
like thiamine deficiency [I'm personally not convinced] the soy-based
infant formula made by a German firm (HUMANA) was taken off the shelves.

Since vitamin B1 (thiamine) deficiency develops within 18 days and 5000
infants used this formula for at least 1-2 months, unless textbooks in
nutritional biochemistry need to be re-written, the only possibility
demonstrating that the cause was indeed a deficency of thiamine in the
formula (and not due to a toxic factor in one specific batch, or aluminium
in the water supply, or a rare inborn error of metabolism such as
lipoamide dehydrogenase deficiency or to a thiamine-responsive disorder
such as ketoaciduria due to low activity of branched-chain keto acid
dehydrogenase) is that 99.7% of mothers who give their infants a soy-based
formula ALSO give their child other foods which contain thiamine (enough
to prevent overt deficiency). Otherwise we would expect to see hundreds
if not thousands of hospitalized infants with beriberi (thiamine
deficiency).

To those mothers who give their infants a soy-based formula: do you give
the formula EXCLUSIVELY to the exclusion of any other food item with
the exception of tap water ? Or do you add other food items to the baby's
diet in ADDITION to the soy-based formula ?

Your input is vital to solve this problem. It will be a "first" for USENET !


Thanks in advance,

Josh

Dr. Josh Backon
Hebrew Unversity
Faculty of Medicine


If the formula was taken off the shelves, don't you have samples to test? Or
I'm sure the mothers of the infants who were hospitalized have leftover formula
to test. Asking a general audience how they feed their children doesn't seem
that it will prove anything in this case.

That said, at least in the USA, it is recommended that chiild be exclusively
breastfed or formula-fed for the first 4-6 months. After that most parents
start with cereal, fruits and vegetables, but the main source of nutrition is
still considered to be breast-milk or forumla for the first year.

Jennifer
mom to Jacob (13 months)

I'm a former consulting editor (1983-1987) of the JOURNAL OF PEDIATRIC
ENDOCRINOLOGY and a strong proponent of breastfeeding.

After 15 infants in Israel were hospitalized this past week with what looks
like thiamine deficiency [I'm personally not convinced] the soy-based
infant formula made by a German firm (HUMANA) was taken off the shelves.

Since vitamin B1 (thiamine) deficiency develops within 18 days and 5000
infants used this formula for at least 1-2 months, unless textbooks in
nutritional biochemistry need to be re-written, the only possibility
demonstrating that the cause was indeed a deficency of thiamine in the
formula (and not due to a toxic factor in one specific batch, or aluminium
in the water supply, or a rare inborn error of metabolism such as
lipoamide dehydrogenase deficiency or to a thiamine-responsive disorder
such as ketoaciduria due to low activity of branched-chain keto acid
dehydrogenase) is that 99.7% of mothers who give their infants a soy-based
formula ALSO give their child other foods which contain thiamine (enough
to prevent overt deficiency). Otherwise we would expect to see hundreds
if not thousands of hospitalized infants with beriberi (thiamine
deficiency).

To those mothers who give their infants a soy-based formula: do you give
the formula EXCLUSIVELY to the exclusion of any other food item with
the exception of tap water ? Or do you add other food items to the baby's
diet in ADDITION to the soy-based formula ?

Your input is vital to solve this problem. It will be a "first" for USENET !


Thanks in advance,

Josh

Dr. Josh Backon
Hebrew Unversity
Faculty of Medicine

WARNING: Josh Backon is a well known medical crackpot that posts on
soc.culture.jewish.moderated. While he DOES have credentials, I'd
advise anyone even remotely interested in this post and other medical
posts Josh has posted over the years to please look carefully at his
postings. This is a guy who has tried to convince people that eating
leftover rice is deadly, has a tendancy to try and disgnose people
he's never laid eyes on before with life-threatening or several mental
disorders, and tends to believe that vitamins will save the world.

All this in addition to his claims to be an expert on childbirth,
raising children, a former Mossaf operative (the Israeli version of
the CIA), and a general expert on all things Jewish.

As a moderator at SCJM I'm privy to Josh's posts both on and left off
the group. I think every moderator would back up my claims with no
problem. The fact that a doctor is using Usenet to do medical research
should give you pause.

Marjorie



wrote in message news:2003Nov11.175553@hujicc...
I'm a former consulting editor (1983-1987) of the JOURNAL OF PEDIATRIC
ENDOCRINOLOGY and a strong proponent of breastfeeding.

After 15 infants in Israel were hospitalized this past week with what looks
like thiamine deficiency [I'm personally not convinced] the soy-based
infant formula made by a German firm (HUMANA) was taken off the shelves.

Since vitamin B1 (thiamine) deficiency develops within 18 days and 5000
infants used this formula for at least 1-2 months, unless textbooks in
nutritional biochemistry need to be re-written, the only possibility
demonstrating that the cause was indeed a deficency of thiamine in the
formula (and not due to a toxic factor in one specific batch, or aluminium
in the water supply, or a rare inborn error of metabolism such as
lipoamide dehydrogenase deficiency or to a thiamine-responsive disorder
such as ketoaciduria due to low activity of branched-chain keto acid
dehydrogenase) is that 99.7% of mothers who give their infants a soy-based
formula ALSO give their child other foods which contain thiamine (enough
to prevent overt deficiency). Otherwise we would expect to see hundreds
if not thousands of hospitalized infants with beriberi (thiamine
deficiency).

To those mothers who give their infants a soy-based formula: do you give
the formula EXCLUSIVELY to the exclusion of any other food item with
the exception of tap water ? Or do you add other food items to the baby's
diet in ADDITION to the soy-based formula ?

Your input is vital to solve this problem. It will be a "first" for USENET !


Thanks in advance,

Josh

Dr. Josh Backon
Hebrew Unversity
Faculty of Medicine

wrote:
To those mothers who give their infants a soy-based formula: do you give
the formula EXCLUSIVELY to the exclusion of any other food item with
the exception of tap water ? Or do you add other food items to the baby's
diet in ADDITION to the soy-based formula ?

Depends. I breastfed exclusively until kids were four months old, then I
went back to work and started pumping. I kept them exclusively on
breastmilk until they were six months old but after that I used soy-based
formulas to supplement my waining pumped breastmilk. As I recall I mixed
it half and half with expressed breastmilk most of the time. Of course,
by that point the children were also eating tablespoons of infant cereal
(usually fortified with B vitamins.)

One of my children was a slow gainer so I kept him on formula for the
additional calories in the place of glasses of milk until he was nearly
three years old (in addition to his solid foods.)

Wendy

On 11 Nov 2003 11:22:47 -0800, (chiam margalit)
wrote:

WARNING: Josh Backon is a well known medical crackpot that posts on
soc.culture.jewish.moderated. While he DOES have credentials, I'd
advise anyone even remotely interested in this post and other medical
posts Josh has posted over the years to please look carefully at his
postings. This is a guy who has tried to convince people that eating
leftover rice is deadly, has a tendancy to try and disgnose people
he's never laid eyes on before with life-threatening or several mental
disorders, and tends to believe that vitamins will save the world.

He does not appear to be a member of the medical faculty of the Hebrew
U (not in the directory), but the issue he brings up is a legitimate
one. The facts he cites about babies hospitalized (and three dead) as
a result of thiamine deficiency, allegedly caused by all of them
having been fed exclusively with Remedia soy formula while the formula
contained no vit B1... are true. There is a HUGE row about this right
now in Israel. I hear it has even carried over to Brooklyn, NY.

The ministry of health has tested the formula, and while the full
results of the testing have not been released, have said that they
found no thiamine in (some of?) the formula tested. The German company
claim (as per the media) that the product contained thiamine when it
was manufactured. Current speculation is whether it is possible for
the thiamine to have been "lost" in transit, and how. Perhaps they
will indeed find, as the OP suggests that this was an isolated batch
problem, and not a Nazi conspiracy against the Jews.

Recent infant medical clinic (tipat halav) advice, in Israel, is to
feed your baby with breastmilk or formula exclusively for 4-6 months,
then to introduce solids gradually. They do, however, encourage giving
your child tastes of some initial foods from around 3 months. I don't
know how much food would be needed to avoid a thiamine deficiency - my
daughter ate very little when she was tasting.

--Lisabell


wrote in message news:2003Nov11.175553@hujicc...
I'm a former consulting editor (1983-1987) of the JOURNAL OF PEDIATRIC
ENDOCRINOLOGY and a strong proponent of breastfeeding.

After 15 infants in Israel were hospitalized this past week with what looks
like thiamine deficiency [I'm personally not convinced] the soy-based
infant formula made by a German firm (HUMANA) was taken off the shelves.

Since vitamin B1 (thiamine) deficiency develops within 18 days and 5000
infants used this formula for at least 1-2 months, unless textbooks in
nutritional biochemistry need to be re-written, the only possibility
demonstrating that the cause was indeed a deficency of thiamine in the
formula (and not due to a toxic factor in one specific batch, or aluminium
in the water supply, or a rare inborn error of metabolism such as
lipoamide dehydrogenase deficiency or to a thiamine-responsive disorder
such as ketoaciduria due to low activity of branched-chain keto acid
dehydrogenase) is that 99.7% of mothers who give their infants a soy-based
formula ALSO give their child other foods which contain thiamine (enough
to prevent overt deficiency). Otherwise we would expect to see hundreds
if not thousands of hospitalized infants with beriberi (thiamine
deficiency).

To those mothers who give their infants a soy-based formula: do you give
the formula EXCLUSIVELY to the exclusion of any other food item with
the exception of tap water ? Or do you add other food items to the baby's
diet in ADDITION to the soy-based formula ?

Your input is vital to solve this problem. It will be a "first" for USENET !


Thanks in advance,

Josh

Dr. Josh Backon
Hebrew Unversity
Faculty of Medicine

wrote:

They do, however, encourage giving
your child tastes of some initial foods from around 3 months. I don't
know how much food would be needed to avoid a thiamine deficiency - my
daughter ate very little when she was tasting.

My father had beri-beri when he was in prison camp eating mostly white rice for
months on end. He said every once in a while they got something else besides
rice, a few vegetables or something, and almost instantly got somewhat better,
so I don't think it takes too much. At least this is the way I remember the
story, I can check with him. On the other hand he probably also had several
other vitamin deficiencies as well, so it may have been, say, the scurvy
getting better, not the beri-beri, who knows?

--Helen

LisaBell wrote in message . ..
On 11 Nov 2003 11:22:47 -0800, (chiam margalit)
wrote:

WARNING: Josh Backon is a well known medical crackpot that posts on
soc.culture.jewish.moderated. While he DOES have credentials, I'd
advise anyone even remotely interested in this post and other medical
posts Josh has posted over the years to please look carefully at his
postings. This is a guy who has tried to convince people that eating
leftover rice is deadly, has a tendancy to try and disgnose people
he's never laid eyes on before with life-threatening or several mental
disorders, and tends to believe that vitamins will save the world.

He does not appear to be a member of the medical faculty of the Hebrew
U (not in the directory),

He was in the directory every single time I looked him up, and I know
of other people who know him IRL and he is telling the truth that he
works there. I have no problem with his 'credentials' as I've read
them, not as he presents them.

but the issue he brings up is a legitimate
one. The facts he cites about babies hospitalized (and three dead) as
a result of thiamine deficiency, allegedly caused by all of them
having been fed exclusively with Remedia soy formula while the formula
contained no vit B1... are true. There is a HUGE row about this right
now in Israel. I hear it has even carried over to Brooklyn, NY.

Oh, I know it's true, and I know the entire story. It's a thread on
scjm that I've followed, plus I've read it in the Israeli papers. And
it has carried over to the US because people have stated that they
used soy formula rather than breastfeeding to ensure that their baby
stay milchig, something I can't even fathom, but heck...

It's an interesting postulation trying to figure out what exactly
happened and why.

My worry is that people will believe that Josh is a medical expert (on
everything, just ask him!) doing valid research on Usenet. You know
and I know that research on Usenet is a ridiculous proposition at
best, especially since I believe you are the *only* Israeli poster on
this newsgroup at this point in time.

Whatever... I just feel it's important to counteract anything Josh
claims because those of you who don't know him might be fooled by the
DR in front of his name. That could be dangerous if you were to follow
some of his medical advice. Recently there was a thread started about
pregnancy and childbirth and reading it will give clear indication of
Josh's position to the very very right of nutsoid.

And oh, Josh is a former American. You don't have to translate
anything on how we do things here. He knows, he knows. :-)

Marjorie

The ministry of health has tested the formula, and while the full
results of the testing have not been released, have said that they
found no thiamine in (some of?) the formula tested. The German company
claim (as per the media) that the product contained thiamine when it
was manufactured. Current speculation is whether it is possible for
the thiamine to have been "lost" in transit, and how. Perhaps they
will indeed find, as the OP suggests that this was an isolated batch
problem, and not a Nazi conspiracy against the Jews.

Recent infant medical clinic (tipat halav) advice, in Israel, is to
feed your baby with breastmilk or formula exclusively for 4-6 months,
then to introduce solids gradually. They do, however, encourage giving
your child tastes of some initial foods from around 3 months. I don't
know how much food would be needed to avoid a thiamine deficiency - my
daughter ate very little when she was tasting.

--Lisabell


wrote in message news:2003Nov11.175553@hujicc...
I'm a former consulting editor (1983-1987) of the JOURNAL OF PEDIATRIC
ENDOCRINOLOGY and a strong proponent of breastfeeding.

After 15 infants in Israel were hospitalized this past week with what looks
like thiamine deficiency [I'm personally not convinced] the soy-based
infant formula made by a German firm (HUMANA) was taken off the shelves.

Since vitamin B1 (thiamine) deficiency develops within 18 days and 5000
infants used this formula for at least 1-2 months, unless textbooks in
nutritional biochemistry need to be re-written, the only possibility
demonstrating that the cause was indeed a deficency of thiamine in the
formula (and not due to a toxic factor in one specific batch, or aluminium
in the water supply, or a rare inborn error of metabolism such as
lipoamide dehydrogenase deficiency or to a thiamine-responsive disorder
such as ketoaciduria due to low activity of branched-chain keto acid
dehydrogenase) is that 99.7% of mothers who give their infants a soy-based
formula ALSO give their child other foods which contain thiamine (enough
to prevent overt deficiency). Otherwise we would expect to see hundreds
if not thousands of hospitalized infants with beriberi (thiamine
deficiency).

To those mothers who give their infants a soy-based formula: do you give
the formula EXCLUSIVELY to the exclusion of any other food item with
the exception of tap water ? Or do you add other food items to the baby's
diet in ADDITION to the soy-based formula ?

Your input is vital to solve this problem. It will be a "first" for USENET !


Thanks in advance,

Josh

Dr. Josh Backon
Hebrew Unversity
Faculty of Medicine

In article , (chiam margalit) writes:
WARNING: Josh Backon is a well known medical crackpot that posts on
soc.culture.jewish.moderated. While he DOES have credentials, I'd
advise anyone even remotely interested in this post and other medical


Thank you Marjorie for your acerbic "compliment".




posts Josh has posted over the years to please look carefully at his
postings. This is a guy who has tried to convince people that eating
leftover rice is deadly, has a tendancy to try and disgnose people

I'd suggest that you access MEDLINE http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed
and type in the keywords rice cereus and read a dozen or so journal
abstracts on how dangerous it is to reheat cold cooked rice.


he's never laid eyes on before with life-threatening or several mental
disorders, and tends to believe that vitamins will save the world.


I won't waste your time responding to this absurdity.


All this in addition to his claims to be an expert on childbirth,
raising children, a former Mossaf operative (the Israeli version of
the CIA), and a general expert on all things Jewish.


Not on childnbirth: on breastfeeding (my paper on breastfeeding is
often quoted in pediatric journals)

I'll leave my military background (1980-81) out of the discussion.

As a moderator at SCJM I'm privy to Josh's posts both on and left off
the group. I think every moderator would back up my claims with no
problem. The fact that a doctor is using Usenet to do medical research
should give you pause.


Au contrai getting feedback on a very specific issue (he do formula
fed infants get formula EXCLUSIVELY for the first 4 months or are babies
also breastfed or given other liquids) is the perfect venue for a USENET
group devoted to parenting.

In the meanwhile, our group has come up with a possible solution to the
cause of the acute beriberi encephalopathy in the 15 hospitalized infants:
thiaminases (antithiamine compounds) found in foodstufs.

There are a number of food items containing thiaminases that act as
antithiamine compounds, and these include: tea (Bibl Nutr Dieta 1970;
15:180; Am J Clinical Nutrition 2001;74:712-713), blueberies (Int Z
Vitaminforsch 1968;38:387-91), fish especially CARP (as in gefillte
fish !!) (Bibl Nutr Dieta 1970;15:182-183), mustard (Biochim Biophysica
Acta 1974;343:211-214), tuna (!!) (Experientia 1968;24:1146-1147), and
caffeic acid (Int J Vit Nutrition Reseatch 1976;46:143-148).

Israeli mothers are prone to give their infants tea ! (Expert witness from
Professor Eli Chavivi at Hebrew U med school 10 years ago) and fruit juice.

So my guess is that the hospitalized infants were also given (at home)
formula and tea or high phenolic juice (rather than 100% tap water).
This may have exacerbated the already low levels of vitamin B1 in the
soy-based formula to engender an acute case of beriberi encephalopathy.

Josh




Marjorie



wrote in message news:2003Nov11.175553@hujicc...
I'm a former consulting editor (1983-1987) of the JOURNAL OF PEDIATRIC
ENDOCRINOLOGY and a strong proponent of breastfeeding.

After 15 infants in Israel were hospitalized this past week with what looks
like thiamine deficiency [I'm personally not convinced] the soy-based
infant formula made by a German firm (HUMANA) was taken off the shelves.

Since vitamin B1 (thiamine) deficiency develops within 18 days and 5000
infants used this formula for at least 1-2 months, unless textbooks in
nutritional biochemistry need to be re-written, the only possibility
demonstrating that the cause was indeed a deficency of thiamine in the
formula (and not due to a toxic factor in one specific batch, or aluminium
in the water supply, or a rare inborn error of metabolism such as
lipoamide dehydrogenase deficiency or to a thiamine-responsive disorder
such as ketoaciduria due to low activity of branched-chain keto acid
dehydrogenase) is that 99.7% of mothers who give their infants a soy-based
formula ALSO give their child other foods which contain thiamine (enough
to prevent overt deficiency). Otherwise we would expect to see hundreds
if not thousands of hospitalized infants with beriberi (thiamine
deficiency).

To those mothers who give their infants a soy-based formula: do you give
the formula EXCLUSIVELY to the exclusion of any other food item with
the exception of tap water ? Or do you add other food items to the baby's
diet in ADDITION to the soy-based formula ?

Your input is vital to solve this problem. It will be a "first" for USENET !


Thanks in advance,

Josh

Dr. Josh Backon
Hebrew Unversity
Faculty of Medicine

In article ,
chiam margalit wrote:

Oh, I know it's true, and I know the entire story. It's a thread on
scjm that I've followed, plus I've read it in the Israeli papers. And
it has carried over to the US because people have stated that they
used soy formula rather than breastfeeding to ensure that their baby
stay milchig, something I can't even fathom, but heck...

Huh? Aren't soy formula and breastmilk both pareve? I'm sure I'm
missing the point here, but I can't understand this reference (and
I have breastfed while keeping kosher, though I admit I have never
been strict about it with my infants).

--Robyn

(Robyn Kozierok) wrote in message ...
In article ,
chiam margalit wrote:

Oh, I know it's true, and I know the entire story. It's a thread on
scjm that I've followed, plus I've read it in the Israeli papers. And
it has carried over to the US because people have stated that they
used soy formula rather than breastfeeding to ensure that their baby
stay milchig, something I can't even fathom, but heck...

Huh? Aren't soy formula and breastmilk both pareve? I'm sure I'm
missing the point here, but I can't understand this reference (and
I have breastfed while keeping kosher, though I admit I have never
been strict about it with my infants).

Well, according to the Ultra O, no, breastmilk isn't pareve, it's
milchig, especially if the mom is milchig and nursing at the kitchen
or dining table. This is a really interesting discussion that has been
going on for quite a while. While I'm with you, my kashrut is pretty
strict but not THAT strict, other people differ radically and thus
have kept their babies pareve (the thought of a baby being labeled as
milchig or pareve cracks me up) by using soy formula.

Marjorie