3-year old sibling rivalry

My wife and I had our second child, a girl, in May this past spring. We
have another daughter almost exactly 3 years older than the baby. Erika
(the older one) was all excited about the coming of the baby, we got books
out of the library about pregnancy, changes that would occur when the new
baby came home, etc. When the baby came home, though, things did not, and
have not, gone smoothly at all... Erika hits Lindsay (the baby) at any
opportunity. Or kicks. Or bites. At first we thought that it was a normal
jealous reaction to a new baby, and we were prepared to wait it out. We
made sure to give Erika TONS of attention, even buying her a few special
toys to offset all the baby gifts from our friends and relatives. In fact I
daresay she has probably gotten at least as much attention over the past six
months as the baby has!

However, the behavior has not changed. Erika will come into a room, see
Lindsay doing something, and will immediately either take away whatever toy
Lindsay is playing with (or all of her toys) or, if she is not playing with
a toy, will go over and SMACK her or push her over or do some other mean
thing until Lindsay cries. We have tried time outs and other non-violent
punishments such as keeping her from going to the park, to swimming, etc. to
no avail... she just takes whatever we dish out with no change in behaviour
whatsoever. If I see her about to hit Lindsay and say "Don't do that or you
can't go to Grandma's tomorrow" she will look me in the eye and continue to
hit Lindsay anyway. We do not dare leave the two of them together
unattended for fear the baby will be hurt.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it normal? How long will it go on?
As an aside, Erika is GREAT with other babies, plays with them, shares with
them without being asked, is very gentle, it's just her baby sister she has
it out for. When i'ts one-on-one with Mom or Dad (no baby) Erika is sweet
as can be.

Any replies greatly appreciated.

On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:30:39 GMT, "David Spear"
wrote:

However, the behavior has not changed. Erika will come into a room, see
Lindsay doing something, and will immediately either take away whatever toy
Lindsay is playing with (or all of her toys) or, if she is not playing with
a toy, will go over and SMACK her or push her over or do some other mean
thing until Lindsay cries. We have tried time outs and other non-violent
punishments such as keeping her from going to the park, to swimming, etc. to
no avail... she just takes whatever we dish out with no change in behaviour
whatsoever. If I see her about to hit Lindsay and say "Don't do that or you
can't go to Grandma's tomorrow" she will look me in the eye and continue to
hit Lindsay anyway. We do not dare leave the two of them together
unattended for fear the baby will be hurt.


Try to look at this situation from your daughter's point of view and
understand that it is absolutely natural for her to feel resentment
towards the baby and she is expressing it in the only way she knows.
The analogy (as offered in one text... I forget which, offhand) is of
your wife of 3 years going out one day and bringing home a second
husband, then telling you that you not only must share her attention
and your belongings with new husband, but that you should be happy she
brought you home a new husband to hang out with and that sharing is
fun.

I think you need to sit down with your daughter and talk about her
feelings, first of all. Acknowledge that she feels angry about the
baby and maybe even wishes the baby to go away. Be sympathetic. Then
explain that hitting hurts, and that you cannot allow her to hurt the
baby. Try and find some other way she may vent her feelings when she
is feeling angry and resentful (some kids might prefer a kiss and
cuddle, others might feel better if they let it out by hitting
something like a pillow or banging with a mallet).

Threatening her with punishments (especially punishments which are
totally unrelated to the behaviour) is absolutely ineffective, IMO. At
only 3 your daughter may not even have enough impulse control to hold
back, and in any case she does not know how to deal with her resentful
and angry feelings in a more constructive way (heck, many adults
don't). You need to teach her what she may and may not do, by
physically preventing her from hitting the baby (not from the
armchair, but by getting up and stopping her) and by redirecting her
to appropriate ways to vent her legitimate feelings. And in the
meantime *never* leave the two kids alone together. This isn't a very
good idea with a baby this age whatever the attitude of the sibling.

As you may have realized your daughter's behaviour is pretty common
and there are lots of texts that address this and offer many good
strategies for dealing with it. I can't remember names off the top of
my head, but hopefully someone here will suggest some for you.

Good luck!
--Lisabell
Mom to Gabriella (5) and Michaela (3.5)

David Spear wrote:

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it normal? How long will it go on?
As an aside, Erika is GREAT with other babies, plays with them, shares with
them without being asked, is very gentle, it's just her baby sister she has
it out for. When i'ts one-on-one with Mom or Dad (no baby) Erika is sweet
as can be.

I have no personal experience with this, except what I observe at
friends' houses and hear from other parents. Sibling rivalry seems
to be a perfectly normal thing, however, your story is one of the
most extreme cases I have come across. Even though there is a lot
of literature on it, I'd start to get worried about the well-being
of your baby. She is six months old by now and leads a life of being
hit for no apparent reason day after day, and this has to end rather
sooner than later. Maybe I am overreacting here, but instead of
trying books or online advice, I would seriously consider taking
the next step right away and discuss this with a therapist.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (15m)
guardian of DH (32)
War doesn't decide who's right, only who's left

"LisaBell" wrote in message
...
The analogy (as offered in one text... I forget which, offhand)

Penelope Leach, I have no doubt. I've always loved it, although I have to
confess that when I told my husband he said, "I'd be thrilled if you brought
home a second husband--I *need* one to handle all the honey-do's around
here" g!
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
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"LisaBell" wrote in message
.. .
The analogy (as offered in one text... I forget which, offhand)

Penelope Leach, I have no doubt. I've always loved it, although I have to
confess that when I told my husband he said, "I'd be thrilled if you brought
home a second husband-

I think it must be a standard pediatrician chestnut. I'm pretty sure it's in
either Spock or Gesell or both -- of course with "what if your husband brought
home a new wife" (this is the first time I remember hearing it with the spouses
reversed). My mother used to quote it.

--Helen

wrote:

Yeah, my husband and I both agree that we need a
wife. Don't know how we're going to *****swing***** that, though

Bah-doom-SHHH! You walked into that one!

--Helen

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...
Circe wrote:
Penelope Leach, I have no doubt. I've always loved it, although I have
to
confess that when I told my husband he said, "I'd be thrilled if you
brought
home a second husband--I *need* one to handle all the honey-do's around
here" g!

Yeah, my husband and I both agree that we need a
wife. Don't know how we're going to swing that, though--
and can't imagine who'd take the job considering the
things we'd like to push off on the "other wife" ;-)

Well, I *have* a wife. Actually, I have a *new* wife--my former wife (aka au
pair) left for New York this morning, whence she'll fly back home to South
Africa. My new wife, Judy, started work last week with Ninian showing her
the ropes. (That was sort of interesting, since Judy's English is a bit
weak--she speaks mainly Spanish--and Ninian has no Spanish at all, but it
turned out fine.) Anyway, I don't know what I'd do without my serial wives
g!
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

Circe wrote:


Penelope Leach, I have no doubt. I've always loved it, although I have to
confess that when I told my husband he said, "I'd be thrilled if you brought
home a second husband--I *need* one to handle all the honey-do's around
here" g!


Yeah, my husband and I both agree that we need a
wife. Don't know how we're going to swing that, though--
and can't imagine who'd take the job considering the
things we'd like to push off on the "other wife" ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

We've never had it that bad and I don't know how
long this will last. I have two thoughts, for whatever
they're worth:

1) Is Erika getting attention (even if it's negative
attention) for hitting the baby?

2) I think you absolutely have to prevent her from
hitting the baby. This isn't something you can
allow to happen and then try to address it with
punishment after it happens. You must do whatever
it takes to make sure she doesn't have the chance
to hurt the baby--not just because you don't want
the baby hurt, but because hitting the baby is
becoming a *habit* and it could more easily
escalate. Erika needs to see that you just *will*
not allow her to harm the baby. Period. No matter
what she does or how hard she tries, the baby will
be protected, just as you would protect Erika from
anyone who would harm her.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
...


1) Is Erika getting attention (even if it's negative
attention) for hitting the baby?

Yes, I suppose she does get some attention. I tried my luck at just picking
up the baby and leaving the room, telling Erika that "Daddy doesn't want to
play with girls that hit" which she definitely did not like, to the point of
begging "Daddy stay. I won't hit anymore"... she KNOWS it's wrong. Yet she
does it anyway. She definitely doesn't get MUCH attention at this point;
after so much repetition one would think the pain of punishment outweighs
whatever crumb of pleasure she receives by way of attention.

2) I think you absolutely have to prevent her from
hitting the baby. This isn't something you can
allow to happen and then try to address it with
punishment after it happens. You must do whatever
it takes to make sure she doesn't have the chance
to hurt the baby--not just because you don't want
the baby hurt, but because hitting the baby is
becoming a *habit* and it could more easily
escalate. Erika needs to see that you just *will*
not allow her to harm the baby. Period. No matter
what she does or how hard she tries, the baby will
be protected, just as you would protect Erika from
anyone who would harm her.

I think that's a good point you make... we keep giving Erika the benefit of
the doubt, assuming she'll grow out of this hitting phase and not wanting to
make her feel too bad... also it seems the more of an issue we make of it
the more she does it for the attention. Punishing her as I said seems to
only make the problem worse. Maybe it's time to physically restrain her.
It's tough though to keep her away from the baby at all times, and it makes
us even more worried that Erika will start to think it's some sort of game
and will try even harder.

Hadn't really thought about what poor Lindsay thinks of all the whacks on
the head she gets... she is a very big strong baby, could sit up at 5 months
and already weighs more at 6 months than Erika did at a year so we are not
too worried about physical harm... we tend to sit her in the middle of the
livingroom rug to play so worst case scenario she gets toppled over onto the
carpet.

We need to teach Erika (somehow, some way) a constructive, or at least
non-destructive, way to vent her frustrations. Funny thing is, I think she
LIKES Lindsay. Last night at the swimming pool she asked me if perhaps next
time we come we could bring Lindsay. And she will sometimes spontaneously
bring a favorite toy over and let Lindsay play with it without being asked.

thanks for your insight.

Dave


Best wishes,
Ericka