OT - appetite stimulant for a 7 yo?

"Jess" ) writes:
"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
you can take this or leave it, but what little I've seen heard read about
ADHD seems to land on the side of not medicating, but actually controlling
it by diet,

What you've read is inaccurate. ADHD can't be controlled by diet.
Biofeedback does help some, though.

Jess

I disagree. I believe that diet is important in treating AD/HD.

For some children, food allergies may be a factor.

Controlling blood sugar levels helps.

Vitamin C is used by the brain to make neurotransmitters.
A lack of vitamin C tends to make a wide variety of
mental conditions worse.

Many people in industrialized countries have diets
deficient in omega-3 oils. The brain is largely composed
of omega-3 oils and won't work as well if they're missing.
I read of a study that found that people with AD/HD are more
likely to have a deficiency of omega-3 oils in the blood.

Supplements of precursors to neurotransmiters can help
with mood. For example, tryptophan is used by the brain
to make serotonin. The drug companies have somehow
managed to make tryptophan difficult to obtain. It would
compete with their products, and in general is much safer
as it's a substance normally present in the body and
required for life. I think turkey meat and milk are
high in tryptophan.

"Jess" ) writes:
And I always get really offended when someone makes this comment-"oh, just
watch your diet and it'll improve."

If anyone makes that comment, quote them and tell them you're
offended. The rest of us are not responsible for that comment.

ADD/ADHD is a neurochemical disorder
caused by way too much serotonin flooding the brain and it shows up on fMRIs
now it different areas of the brain that go nice bright colors compared to a
person without this disorder.

That is not the definition of ADD/ADHD. I think ADD usually has
more to do with dopamnine than serotonin. The situation
is complex.

Whether an amount of
dopamine or serotonin is "way too much" can be a matter of opinion
or can vary depending on the situation. Some people with ADD are
very good at handling emergency situations, for example. They
may do poorly with ordinary day-to-day tasks like remembering to
pay the phone bill, but do very well with jobs like emergency
room physician or air traffic controller. While some "normal" people would
be overwhelmed by too much dopamine in those stressful situations,
the ADD brain may thrive on it and be very successful.

The amount of serotonin in the brain can be affected by
diet. Serotonin is made from tryptophan, which cannot be
made by the body but is obtained in the diet.
Taking in carbohydrates also (for some reason) increases
the amount of tryptophan that moves into the brain from
the rest of the body. That's why carbohydrates at bedtime
can help a person sleep. Milk and cookies: the milk
provides tryptophan, and the cookies are the carbohydrate
that promotes the movement of the tryptophan into the
brain, allowing the brain to make serotonin which is then
transformed again into melatonin which promotes sleep.

The amount of serotonin, dopamine and other things in a
person's brain is affected by diet, exercise, and many
other things such as whether they're doing something they're
interested in or not.

You claim that modifying diet doesn't make ADHD better.
Why do you believe this?
What is your evidence that this is the case?

"Jess" ) writes:
Depression is a lack of serotonin, not an excess.

The situation is more complicated than that.
Lack of serotonin is not the definition of depression.

If the definition of depression were a lack of
serotonin, and the definition of ADD were too much
serotonin, then how woulld you explain that many
people with ADD exerience depression -- more than
the average person?

Cheri Stryker ) writes:
DS1 has always been a picky eater, but he used to get a decent quantity.
Lately, though, he barely eats anything. He's still gaining height,
and a teeny tiny bit of weight, but it's getting me really worried. He
asks for 2 hot dogs for lunch, and only manages to eat 1/2 of one.

He's currently taking concerta for ADHD, so I figure that's part of the
problem. Any suggestions on how to make him feel a bit more hungry?

He keeps explaining to me that his stomach is only "this big", and holds
up his fist. Just so smart, almost too much so, sometimes.
--
Cheri Stryker

mom to DS1 - 7 yrs, and DS2 - 3.5 months

Check out my new breastfeeding T-shirts on CafePress!
http://www.cafepress.com/dancingbones


Here are some suggestions for you:

-- quit giving him the drug, and use as many natural
treatments for ADD as you can think of, all at once.

-- give him the drug sometimes but not at other
times, or at a lower dose, and use many natural treatments
for ADD. For example, I think some people use a drug
on school days but not on weekends. One problem with
this is that the drug may have withdrawal effects that
make the ADD symptoms worse.

Natural treatments for ADD include:

-- omega-3 essential fatty acids

-- phosphatidylserine as a nutritional supplement

-- neurofeedback

-- getting lots of exercise, e.g. jogging for an hour
(can lead to being calmer for several hours afterwards --
something to do with dopamine levels I think)

-- getting plenty of sleep (symptoms of sleep deprivation
are similar to symptoms of ADD)

-- vitamin C (needed for normal brain functioning)

-- keeping blood sugar levels steady

-- providing opportunities to do things he's really
interested in. People with ADD can switch from
bouncing around aimlessly to hyperfocusing on one
thing for hours if they come across the right kind
of thing to keep their interest. Things that might
interest kids with ADD: using building toys such
as lego; taking things apart to see how they work;
building sand castles; following ants to see where
they go; etc. etc. Interests will vary with each
individual child. Being outdoors usually helps.

For more about natural treatments see
http://borntoexplore.org/alternatives.htm
(lots of useful information about ADD on that site).

The book "Healing ADD" by Daniel Amen has a questionnaire
to help you determine the specific type of ADD a person
has, and he then recommends specific treatments, both
drug and non-drug treatents, that are likely to work
for that type.

Catherine Woodgold wrote:


Here are some suggestions for you:
[snip]
-- getting plenty of sleep (symptoms of sleep deprivation
are similar to symptoms of ADD)

Not as easy as it sounds. He's never been one to just fall asleep, even
as an infant. Left to his own devices he can keep going all night.

[snip]
For more about natural treatments see
http://borntoexplore.org/alternatives.htm
(lots of useful information about ADD on that site).

The book "Healing ADD" by Daniel Amen has a questionnaire
to help you determine the specific type of ADD a person
has, and he then recommends specific treatments, both
drug and non-drug treatents, that are likely to work
for that type.

Thanks for these references - I'll look them up.
--
Cheri Stryker

mom to DS1 - 7 yrs, and DS2 - 3.5 months

Check out my new breastfeeding T-shirts on CafePress!
http://www.cafepress.com/dancingbones

In article ,
Cheri Stryker wrote:

DS1 has always been a picky eater, but he used to get a decent quantity.
Lately, though, he barely eats anything. He's still gaining height,
and a teeny tiny bit of weight, but it's getting me really worried. He
asks for 2 hot dogs for lunch, and only manages to eat 1/2 of one.

He's currently taking concerta for ADHD, so I figure that's part of the
problem. Any suggestions on how to make him feel a bit more hungry?

I've heard that this is what ADHD meds do. Is there an association in your
area that you can ring? Perhaps there are some tips that other parents can
give you.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

In article ,
(Catherine Woodgold) wrote:

Supplements of precursors to neurotransmiters can help
with mood. For example, tryptophan is used by the brain
to make serotonin. The drug companies have somehow
managed to make tryptophan difficult to obtain. It would
compete with their products, and in general is much safer
as it's a substance normally present in the body and
required for life. I think turkey meat and milk are
high in tryptophan.

Dear me. Where do you live that The Drug Companies have managed to make milk
and turkey meat difficult to obtain?

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

In article ,
(Catherine Woodgold) wrote:

If one goes with that definition of AD/HD it simply plays into the
hands of the drug companies. Oh, if a person's behaviour changes if
you give them a drug, it's AD/HD, but if it changes for any other
reason it's not AD/HD? How could one possibly "diagnose" a condition
with that sort of definition -- you'd have to be able to predict the
future.

Haven't you left out half the picture? A normal person's behaviour changes
when they are given speed. An ADHD person's behaviour changes when they are
given speed. But they do not change in the same way, and the difference is
striking.

If a child has been "diagnosed" with AD/HD I think it's a very
reasonable assumption that changing the diet in various ways may
or may not have a large, beneficial effect on behaviour.

I think you'd better lay off the Vitamin C if it's making you write sentences
like this one.

A "diagnosis" of AD/HD is actually a "classification" of the
child, not a "diagnosis" in the sense of understanding the
cause of the problem. It simply classifies the child along with
a lot of other children who have similar problems which may
often be helped with similar solutions.

Er, yes. Pre-eclampsia is diagnosed by symptoms, and we don't understand the
cause of that either. Ditto for PCOS, and for most mental illnesses I can
think of. Doesn't mean sufferers of ADHD, PE, PCOS and schizophrenia can't be
helped by drug treatments.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

In article ,
(Catherine Woodgold) wrote:

Whether an amount of
dopamine or serotonin is "way too much" can be a matter of opinion
or can vary depending on the situation. Some people with ADD are
very good at handling emergency situations, for example. They
may do poorly with ordinary day-to-day tasks like remembering to
pay the phone bill, but do very well with jobs like emergency
room physician or air traffic controller.

Your point is invalid for two reasons. The first is that the symptoms of
ADD/ADHD have to occur in multiple settings for a diagnosis. Secondly, part
of the definition of ADD/ADHD is that the symptoms are causing significant
impairment in social, school, or work functioning. See:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/symptom.htm

I also spotted a University of Virginia site which mentioned that studies had
NOT shown dietary L-tryptophan to have an effect on ADD/ADHD, but of course
that is not primary data.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

In article ,
Cheri Stryker wrote:

Well, he's on summer vacation right now... I'm planning to talk to his
Dr. about stopping the meds over vacation, but, the ugly truth is I
don't know if I want to do that, for my sanity. He's a wonderful boy,
and when he's on the meds, he can actually spend time on one thing,
instead of constantly careening around like a pinball. But, there's the
question of, shouldn't he get the chance to learn to deal with it
himself, instead of using medication? [sigh]

What, just like Type 1 diabetics should learn to deal with it themselves? Or
people with depression?

I might be out of date, but my impression was that the drugs enable the child
to START learning to control himself, not that they do the job for him.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue