HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula

wrote:

They don't have to be taking them themselves you know. My DIL was
prohibited from nursing her new baby (and actually gave him to her mom
to care for) because her older child was in the cancer unit at the
children's hospital and was getting chemo and immunosuppressive drugs
for a bone marrow transplant.

I don't understand why she was prohibited from nursing under these
circumstances. I guess I can see why they might not want her taking the baby in
the hospital, and I can certainly see why she might have the baby taken care of
by someone else so that she could be with her older child, but I can't see AT
ALL why there would be any *medical* restriction on nursing, only a question of
whether it was physically practical for her to do so.

--Helen

Rosailie wrote:
They don't have to be taking them themselves you know. My DIL was
prohibited from nursing her new baby (and actually gave him to her mom
to care for) because her older child was in the cancer unit at the
children's hospital and was getting chemo and immunosuppressive drugs
for a bone marrow transplant.

H Schinske wrote in message
I don't understand why she was prohibited from nursing under these
circumstances. I guess I can see why they might not want her taking the
baby in the hospital, and I can certainly see why she might have the baby
taken care of by someone else so that she could be with her older child,
but I can't see AT ALL why there would be any *medical* restriction on
nursing, only a question of whether it was physically practical for her to
do so.

Some meds in the chemo ward are radioactive? (I don't know for sure, I just
hazzard a guess). The drugs and dye they use to kill the thyroid gland is
radioactive and people who take this med needs to stay away from people for
72 hours, I think. Perhaps this is along the same lines. I know for a fact
though that the immunosuppression drugs that are given to a patient for a
transplant are not toxic to other people (my daughter, liver transplant)
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

"Nan" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:10:45 -0600, "iphigenia"
wrote:

(interestingly, it seems that none of the people who are attacking us do,
making me wonder from where the basis of knowledge of how we do things
was
derived)

Interesting you feel attacked. I haven't seen that at all.
And I *have* read mkb on several different occasions, and it is the
more strident posters that make reading it not worthwhile at all.
I know *several* people who won't read mkb for that reason.

Take it fwiw.

Clearly an eye-of-the-beholder phenomenon, since I have the opposite
perception. To me, mkb is worthwhile to read daily, while I generally find
I can only take mk in small doses since it can become so abrasive there.
Every once in a while, a poster at mkb who posts a general baby/child
question is pointed toward mk as a more appropriate forum for the question.
I've been hesitant to "graduate" to mk for those purposes, and I've noticed
others seem to feel the same way.

But as usual on usenet, YMMV.

(Sorry for going so OT)

Belphoebe

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:36:52 GMT, "Belphoebe" wrote:

Clearly an eye-of-the-beholder phenomenon, since I have the opposite
perception. To me, mkb is worthwhile to read daily, while I generally find
I can only take mk in small doses since it can become so abrasive there.
Every once in a while, a poster at mkb who posts a general baby/child
question is pointed toward mk as a more appropriate forum for the question.
I've been hesitant to "graduate" to mk for those purposes, and I've noticed
others seem to feel the same way.

But as usual on usenet, YMMV.

(Sorry for going so OT)

Belphoebe

Well, some on mkb or mkp may want to try the new test group
mk-fl. Or they may want to try misc.kids.moderated.

You cannot get this on your regular usenet server since it
is only on Brian Edmond's test server, but you can come
over and try it out by setting up either OE or agent or netscape
or knode, etc. for news.gweep.ca

To configure your newsreader:

Below are instructions on how to subscribe to
misc.kids.family-life with various configurations so that
it is the same as reading a Usenet newsgroup:

Outlook Express, Agent, slrn, Netscape 7.0 and later,
and Knode:

***Detailed instructions on how to set up a Usenet type account
through Microsoft Outlook Express:

1. Go to Tools | Accounts.
2. Click the Add button and select News.
3. Work your way through the Internet Account Wizard.
The only special thing you need to know to connect to
the server is its address, which is news.gweep.ca.
Enter this at the News (NNTP) Server prompt.
4. Click Finish.
5. Back at the Internet Accounts dialog, click Close.
6. Once you return to Outlook Express, click the
server labeled news.gweep.ca. Click the Newsgroups,
scroll through the list until you find
misc.kids.family-life, and click the Subscribe button.

***Detailed instructions on how to set up a Usenet type
account via Agent:

To set up agent you must have two copies of agent that
can be open at the same time.

First, copy agent.exe to a separate folder. This will copy all
of your current usenet settings.

When you open it, you will get the setup wizard. You must
have your key (unless you are using free agent which does
not require a key) to enter into the proper location when that
screen comes up.

Once the program is setup, open it and go to options,
user and system profile

On the user tab, enter your email if it will be different for
this group than your usual usenet addy.

Check no login is required

On the system tab, enter news.gweep.ca in place of your
old news server.

On the title bar enter a different name like agent1 instead
of agent.

Next refresh groups deleting all extinct groups.

Then subscribe to mkf-l and you are all set.


***Detailed instructions on how to read mkfl with slrn:

For slrn, add this line to your .slrnrc:

server news.gweep.ca .jnewsrc-gweep

(or, choose another name for your gweep newsrc - just make sure to put
something in there different from your default newsrc, or else you'll
have
trouble with overwriting it!)

Then run slrn from the command line as:

prompt slrn -h news.gweep.ca

and subscribe to misc.kids.family-life per normal procedure


***Detailed instructions on how to set up a Usenet type
account with Netscape 7.0 and later:

Go to your mail account

Next go to edit and mail and news account settings

click on add account

check newsgroup account

put in your name and email address

click next

put in news.gweep.ca as your server.

Then go to that account and subscribe to newsgroups
It will dl all the ngs and then you can subscribe to mkfl

***Detailed instructions on how to set up a Usenet account
with Knode:


To configure Knode, you need to set up a new account and
subscribe with that.

Goto settings--configure Knode
Select Accounts--News


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

wrote:

Uhm, her assertion is not baseless. I've read mkb and have seen all
of the "medical professionals don't have training, or a clue" type
posts.

And this is different from numerous other groups, how, exactly? I can't say
I've ever been on a group that discussed medical issues at all, where people
didn't occasionally say that such and such a doctor was clueless. Because,
frankly, such situations DO OCCUR, in real life, fairly frequently.

--Helen, wondering for the millionth time how m.k.b can be considered so darned
different when 90% of the folks who post on it are well known and respected
elsewhere, and 90% of the rest are similarly respectable

In article , H Schinske says...

wrote:

Uhm, her assertion is not baseless. I've read mkb and have seen all
of the "medical professionals don't have training, or a clue" type
posts.

And this is different from numerous other groups, how, exactly? I can't say
I've ever been on a group that discussed medical issues at all, where people
didn't occasionally say that such and such a doctor was clueless. Because,
frankly, such situations DO OCCUR, in real life, fairly frequently.

Sure they are (some doctors). Sure they do (some situations).

The problem HERE is that there is a set of 'medical' advice which is given and
any contradicting advice from a physician is dismissed.

If a doctor is 'clueless' - what is done concerning other topics is that people
are told to *find another doctor*. Or *get a second opinion*. Most 'groups
like misc.kids.health have a resident group of doctors and others who will
contravene regarding erroneous medical advice given there. And handle properly
any questions concerning erroneous medical advice. People are *not* told to
take a medicine without a prescription, which in effect is what a bf mother can
be doing with respect to her infant if she'd reassured by lay people
contradicting medical advice she's gotten.

MKB has gotten somewhat insular in this regard.

Banty

wrote:

Sure they are (some doctors). Sure they do (some situations).

The problem HERE is that there is a set of 'medical' advice which is given
and
any contradicting advice from a physician is dismissed.

Sorry, that's simply not true of mkb more than it is of any other usenet group.
I'm not saying that it is perfect or that no one ever dispenses quacky advice.
I'm simply saying that it isn't a place that is particularly prone to quacky
advice. Certainly quoting Hale's to give people more information to work with
is about as far from quackiness as I can think of.

--Helen

In article , H Schinske says...

wrote:

Sure they are (some doctors). Sure they do (some situations).

The problem HERE is that there is a set of 'medical' advice which is given
and
any contradicting advice from a physician is dismissed.

Sorry, that's simply not true of mkb more than it is of any other usenet group.
I'm not saying that it is perfect or that no one ever dispenses quacky advice.
I'm simply saying that it isn't a place that is particularly prone to quacky
advice. Certainly quoting Hale's to give people more information to work with
is about as far from quackiness as I can think of.

At least Hale's is something. And, yes, many times on mkp folks are advised to
take Hale's or other sources back to their ped. But I still think it can be
approached more carefully.

Banty

Most 'groups
like misc.kids.health have a resident group of doctors and others who will
contravene regarding erroneous medical advice given there.

And mkb has a large number of people who are extensively trained and
knowlegable about bfing (far more so than most doctors, really -- even the
best doctors), and so are able to answer question and help mothers with bfing
issues -- even those that involve medications. (No, we can't prescribe
medications, but we can read and interpret information about them, and
sometimes offer advice.)



People are *not* told to
take a medicine without a prescription, which in effect is what a bf mother
can
be doing with respect to her infant if she'd reassured by lay people
contradicting medical advice she's

gotten.


How on earth could we do that? We can't write a prescription! A very common
scenario on mkb is that a mother goes to her doctor with a problem (say, PPD,
or migraines) and is told "Sorry, I can't give you anything as long as you are
nursing. Come back after you've weaned the baby." Now, we certainly can't
PRESCRIBE the mother Zoloft or Imitrex, but we certainly tell her that Hale
says both of these are safe while nursing, and she can then bring that info
back to her doctor. (And if he still refuses, she can always try to find
another doctor or a second opinion, if that is her choice.)

Now, in the case of, say, an antibiotic, where the doc has given her a
prescriptiion for Amoxicillan and told her to go home and pump and dump for 10
days while she takes it, and she posts for a Hale's look-up and we tell her
that Hale says that this is catagory L1, commonly used in infants and children,
with less than .7% of the adult dose getting into the milk ... well .. IMO,
she's a big girl, and she's capable of making her own medical decisions,
including ignoring her doctor's advice if she wishes. She may chose to call
her doctor back and ask him why he told her she had to pump and dump for this
perfectly safe drug. Or she may conclude, for herself, that the Hale's info
sounds reasonable to her and decide to go on nursing. OR she may decide to
trust her doctor and pump. We give the information. She makes her own choices.


Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)

Outside the cozy circle of mkb where apparently such assertions are
considered
sufficient for mothers to risk the health of their children,

1. PhD's are NOT M.D's
2. Safety is determined *empirically*, not by reasonong out molecular
size,etc.


Outside the cozy circle of mkb where apparently such assertions are
considered
sufficient for mothers to risk the health of their children,

Yet many M.D.'s are willing to 'risk the health of our children' by insisting
that we wean them from the breast for no reason at all?'

I'm afraid you
would something else - like a study published in an archival journal on the
*measured* presence or absense of a drug or its components or its metabolized

results in breastmilk, and preferably a cite concerning FDA approval as well.

Which is precisely what we have. PDR uses something like this in most of its
listings "We don' t know if X passes into the milk. But because some drugs pass
into the milk, and may cause harm to the nursing baby, we recommend that
lactating mothers do not use X." (or "that lactating mothers use X only with
great caution." or "If a lactating mother needs to use X, she should either
stop nursing or stop the drug, based on the importance of the drug to the
nursing mother.") IOW, they rarely, if ever, do any research at all. Why should
they? It isn't cost effective for them? Nursing mothers make up only a tiny
percentage of their patient base, and as long as doctors continue to tell moms
to just wean anyway, they aren't going to lose any sales.

Hale, OTOH, has research studies cited for most of his listings. (So do the
chapters on drugs in lacation for the major medical/lactation consultatant
texts.) HE goes right to the literature. And if there aren't any actual
studies, he uses common sense/extrapolation based on what we know about similar
drugs and molecular size and the like to give his best guess. (i.e., for
Dextromethorophan, "No data on its transfer to human milk are available. It is
very unlikely that enough would transfer via milk to provide clinically
significant levels in a breastfed infant.)




Naomi
CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator

(either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail
reply.)