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#11
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HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)
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"iphigenia" wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: The original thread that I saw had only two paragraphs to it and medication use was not addressed in either paragraph. It was posted to Newsgroups: misc.kids.breastfeeding,misc.kids,alt.parenting.s olutions,alt.support.breast feeding,misc.kids.health So? What does that have to do with thread drift? What did I SAY it had to do with thread drift? I don't think I mentioned thread drift. You are bringing it up - do you think it is a justification? I don't know what there was in the post originally, but given that fragment, there is no reason to even bring up medications taken while bf. As I scanned the thread I saw the bf nazis coming in and castigating the OP for stopping bf and telling her that she can/should start up again. I NEVER said anything to the OP at all. Well there you go. You were responding to someone who responded to someone who responded to the OP - apparently jumping into the thread without addressing the OP's problem. While I agree that bf is best and that there are a lot of bogus reasons given for stopping, I don't agree that one should require someone to justify their decisions to you or other folks on the internet. There is a fine line between giving helpful advice and harassing someone. Where the HELL do you get "harassment" from me pointing out that even medications that are known to be safe have warnings against use while BF? Because it wasn't relevant to the OP, the mere fact that you pointed it out was being critical. Like you thought that the persons who were responding to the people who said that there was never any reason to stop bf with a possible reason were incorrect. That seemed to ally you with all those people who were telling the OP that she should not be stopping bf and that formula tasted nasty etc. I give up. You are not being rational. You're attributing words and intentions to me that I never said or implied. I did not call anyone You may not have had those intentions, or meant to imply them, but given the background of the thread I think anyone might read that into what you wrote. "silly." I did not ask anyone to justify their actions. I do not tell No you wouldn't do that. But the fact that you were jumping in with information that one should not necessarily stop bf just because of medical instructions to do so MEANS (to me anyway) that you do not approve of those who accept such instructions. If you don't approve then you inviting them to justify themselves "strangers or acquaintances on the Internet" what to do, nor do I give unasked-for advice. I did not "attack someone who stated that it wasn't a good idea to disregard instructions not to bf when taking medications." I did not disrespect anyone's experience. You say that Well someone did that. I did all those things when all I did was point out that you can't necessarily go by the CYA labels plastered on medicine containers when determining safety, and that most meds are at least potentially compatible with BF. I don't know WHAT your problem with me is, but in the future, can you please keep your attacks on me based on reality? grandma Rosalie |
#12
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HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)
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dragonlady wrote: In article , (Hillary Israeli) wrote: In , Rosalie B. wrote: *I don't know what there was in the post originally, but given that *fragment, there is no reason to even bring up medications taken while *bf. As I scanned the thread I saw the bf nazis coming in and *castigating the OP for stopping bf and telling her that she can/should *start up again. I didn't see any breastfeeding nazis! I just saw concerned readers wondering if the original poster had any chance of resuming the BF relationship as a solution to her problem. Interesting how one's perspective can color one's interpretation. Unless I'm mistaken, i think you filter out one of the people who responded most offensively. I'm sure that's true for me anyway - I saw that post (or part of it) in a response that someone made. grandma Rosalie |
#13
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HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)
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"iphigenia" wrote: Banty wrote: Instead of telling people to ignore medical advice, since you have *no* credentials yourself, suggest that people take Hale's book as a cite, and present that to their physician and pediatrician. Often as not, we DO. WHO is WE??? You keep saying WE do this and WE do that. snip grandma Rosalie |
#15
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HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)
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#16
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HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)
"Rosalie B." wrote in message ... As I scanned the thread I saw the bf nazis coming in and castigating the OP for stopping bf and telling her that she can/should start up again. I just have to say, I LOATHE the phrase "bf nazis". -- JennP. mom to Matthew 10/11/00 remove "no........spam" to reply |
#17
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HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)
In article SBkmb.169743$9l5.38501@pd7tw2no, Dawn Lawson says...
Banty wrote: ::Snip a lot of the usual crap about how phsycians are ignorant, and mkb is the 'best' source of medical information:: Nah. There's no way I can educate ignorant physicians across the world, but I CAN point out that they may not be the best source of advice wrt breastfeeding, including drug compatibility for same. Repeated situations where mothers have been advised to stop nursing for very very unnecessary reasons suggest it's pretty darn important for SOMEone to speak up. Bfding advice is what mkb is all about. Stop crossposting if you find it offensive that people would advise on what they know, and would offer information on drugs. ANYone can buy a copy of Hale's book, fercrissake. One book does not medical advice make. Give all the *breastfeeding* advice you want, but you should NOT be giving MEDICAL advice. Advise nursing mothers to take what information you can give them to their personal medical professionals. Done. What's the big deal? It's not done enough. This whole thing started with Marie was told that she didn't have to pay attention to labels on medicine. NO - she was NOT told that she could have consulted Hales and taken that information to her doctor - she was told that the labels are usually wrong. I'm *not* saying "doctors are infallible" - I'm saying that a group of lay people are *not* a substitute for a doctor, you're *not* trained, did *not* examine any of the readers, and should *not* be telling mothers medications are OK for breastfeeding based on Hales. Do you as, apparently, a dr. feel that you have a great deal of knowledge about breastfeeding and that you are always using uptodate and accurate sources for advising women what drugs are safe to use? Would you feel ok about telling a woman to stop nursing for a 7 day or 10 day course of amoxillan, even if that could jeopardise her nursing relationship with her child? What about telling a woman to pump and dump needlessly while using codeine? THat's the kind of stuff mkb sees probably weekly. If you disagree with something like that, cite the source, and ask a breastfeeding woman to take the information back to her doctor. You are NOT a substitute for a doctor, you should NOT be contradicting any phsycian's advice! Dawn, recalling now just how flippin' toxic mk is It's toxic to the insular, self-congratulating attitudes of certain mkb regulars concerning certain topics regarding breastfeeding. Banty |
#18
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HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)
"JennP" wrote:
I just have to say, I LOATHE the phrase "bf nazis". me too. i think it raises the volume way past where it belongs, and i think it dilutes the understanding of the actual third reich Nazis as the evil murderous horror that they were. i feel the same way about the abhorrent term "feminazi". i also dislike the cheapening of the term rape (i.e. "rape of the earth"). -- -- Vicki Married DH May 21, 1995 Ima shel DS, born 11/16/99; and DD, born 5/19/02. "Stay-at-home" Ima since October 2002. An ounce of mother is worth a pound of clergy. -Spanish proverb I may not currently be pregnant, but I look pregnant, does that count? |
#19
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HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)
How about *this* plan of action:
Instead of telling people to ignore medical advice, since you have *no* credentials yourself, suggest that people take Hale's book as a cite, and present that to their physician and pediatrician. Sure, it would be lovely if every nursing mother could and would buy a copy of Hale's, but it isn't exactly cheap. ($25). Also, not all women have the medica/technical background to understand what they are reading. So those of us who own copies offer a service to those who don't. But we don't say "ignore your doctor." We give them information to bring to their doctor and discuss with him further. Not only do you *not* have medical credentials, you do *not* have the opportunity to examine anyone who comes to mkp Not sure how this is relevent. How would an individual's medical history/exam affect how the drug they are taking gets into the breatmilk and gets to the baby? you do *not* have a way to confirm exactly what medications people are taking just from what they tell you, True, but neither can we prescribe anything. So if someone posts "My doctor has prescribed X but says I have to wean to take it. Can you look it up and see what Hale says," why on earth would they lie about the name of the drug? (Because if the answer we give is inaccurate, how have we helped that mother in any way?) and telling people that their physicians are ignorant. Unfortunately, too many doctors ARE ignorant about breastfeeding, or at least don't feel it's particularly important. The standard belief is that it's no big deal to recommend weaning for spurious reasons because formula is really just as good, so even the remotest chance of harm from the drug MUST be worse than the chance of harm from switching to formula. So how about it - educate those physicians you think are so ignorant as well as their patients, And this is all part of it. If we can give mothers information to bring back to their doctors, we are letting the doctors know that a) most drugs ARE safe to take while nursing b) many mothers DO care about breastfeeding and are not willing to wean for spurious reasons, or just beacuse their doctors tell them they have to. And if enough women keep bringing their doctors information from Hale, maybe more doctors will buy copies of the book themselves, and check into it when prescribing for nursing moms. and get out of the business of passing along advice for yourself. The primary "advice" we give is to take the information we provide and talk to their doctors. Which is surely reasonable advice? (Last year we were talking here about Shaina's asthma, and a couple of people commented that her treatment plan seemed dated,and suggested some other options. Did you consider that inappropriate of them? I took that info to her pediatrician and we talked about it, and did indeed make some changes to her asthma treatment. [And yes, he asked me where I'd heard about it, and I said "From some friends on the net."]) Naomi CAPPA Certified Lactation Educator (either remove spamblock or change address to to e-mail reply.) |
#20
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HELP! 9mo doesn't like formula (crossposted slightly)
In article , Naomi Pardue says...
How about *this* plan of action: Instead of telling people to ignore medical advice, since you have *no* credentials yourself, suggest that people take Hale's book as a cite, and present that to their physician and pediatrician. Sure, it would be lovely if every nursing mother could and would buy a copy of Hale's, but it isn't exactly cheap. ($25). Also, not all women have the medica/technical background to understand what they are reading. So those of us who own copies offer a service to those who don't. But we don't say "ignore your doctor." We give them information to bring to their doctor and discuss with him further. I didn't say *buy the book*, I said take it as a cite. Other points were pretty much covered in my other post. Banty |
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