I need serious help w/ problem child

Let me start off saying I've never done this before, and I need to vent.
(thanks for listening!)

I have a son who is almost 4. I've been a single mom to him since he was
5 months old. He has no siblings, but is fine with other kids for the most
part. I've been taking Zoloft for 2 years- though I'm not so sure I'm the
one who needs the medication anymore. My son's father has no custody or
visitation, so this kid is with me 24-7.

I'm at the end of my rope. I'm about ready to hurt someone. My son does
not listen to me, constantly calls everyone names, hurts people and
animals, and of course drives me insane. Right now it's New Years Eve,
11pm - and my son is still awake. That's normal. He's been sleeping in my
bed for over 2 years. And if that's not bad enough, I've been single
(barely any dates either) since I kicked his father out 3 1/2 years ago.

I think I've set the stage pretty good now... I need to know how to
control a rotten child. I'm to the point where I feel like nothing will
help me feel better about my life than drop-kicking my kid (not that I
would do that, but it sometimes helps lift my mood slightly). As far as I
can see, without a father figure in this boys life, he could care less
what I do or say to make him understand he's a horrible kid. I've taken
him to his doctor to check for adhd, only to hear he's too young to test,
etc. My doctor then stated I should have family help out and watch him
sometimes so I get a break - only problem is my family can't stand him
either. I wish I had better income so I could afford a babysitter more or
even a part time nanny. I NEED AN ANSWER SO BADLY - why can't I stand my
son?? Why do I feel like a horrific mother? and why does my life suck
major ass??? I work hard for what I have, get no respect from anyone, and
can't even control my child. I'd say that makes a person feel pretty
worthless.
I've tried about every kind of discipline for my son, and although he's
smart as hell, he just doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything. I
can't take this **** anymore - I can't. I am so drained from this life of
hell. IF THERE IS ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS HAD AN ISSUE LIKE MINE, PLEASE GIVE
ME A WORD OF ENCOURAGEMENT OR SOMETHING.

"Nolte009" wrote in message
lkaboutparenting.com...
Let me start off saying I've never done this before, and I need to vent.
(thanks for listening!)

I have a son who is almost 4. I've been a single mom to him since he was
5 months old. He has no siblings, but is fine with other kids for the most
part. I've been taking Zoloft for 2 years- though I'm not so sure I'm the
one who needs the medication anymore. My son's father has no custody or
visitation, so this kid is with me 24-7.

Well, Dad is not in the equation, so lets forget about him for now.

I'm at the end of my rope. I'm about ready to hurt someone. My son does
not listen to me, constantly calls everyone names, hurts people and
animals,

Where does he do this? Who can intervene when he's hurting people and
animals?

and of course drives me insane. Right now it's New Years Eve,
11pm - and my son is still awake. That's normal. He's been sleeping in my
bed for over 2 years. And if that's not bad enough, I've been single
(barely any dates either) since I kicked his father out 3 1/2 years ago.

So what? Your son should be your main focus now. Forget about dates and men.

I think I've set the stage pretty good now... I need to know how to
control a rotten child.

You need to learn how to get your own self in order. It's not about control,
and your child is not rotten.

I'm to the point where I feel like nothing will
help me feel better about my life than drop-kicking my kid (not that I
would do that, but it sometimes helps lift my mood slightly). As far as I
can see, without a father figure in this boys life, he could care less
what I do or say to make him understand he's a horrible kid.

You want him to "understand that he's a horrible kid"? This would help how,
exactly?

I've taken
him to his doctor to check for adhd, only to hear he's too young to test,
etc.

Well, ADHD usually shows up en force when a child is in school and has to
sit still all day, so testing that young can not tell a lot.

My doctor then stated I should have family help out and watch him
sometimes so I get a break - only problem is my family can't stand him
either. I wish I had better income so I could afford a babysitter more or
even a part time nanny. I NEED AN ANSWER SO BADLY - why can't I stand my
son?? Why do I feel like a horrific mother? and why does my life suck
major ass???

Only you can make your life not suck major ass.

You probably need to resolve your issues with your sons father and get some
self-respect and control before you can relate to your son. It's easy when
they are babies, but when they talk back and get a mind of their own, that's
when parenting really gets challenging.

I work hard for what I have, get no respect from anyone, and
can't even control my child. I'd say that makes a person feel pretty
worthless.

I think your attitude needs to change first.

I've tried about every kind of discipline for my son, and although he's
smart as hell, he just doesn't give a damn about anyone or anything. I
can't take this **** anymore - I can't. I am so drained from this life of
hell. IF THERE IS ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS HAD AN ISSUE LIKE MINE, PLEASE GIVE
ME A WORD OF ENCOURAGEMENT OR SOMETHING.


Again, it's not about control. It's about mutual respect. You genuinely
care about your son and his well being, and he will do the same for you.
Is there a Head Start program near you?

If this is a troll, do what the hell!

In article
outparenting.com,
"Nolte009" wrote:

I'm at the end of my rope. I'm about ready to hurt someone. My son does
not listen to me, constantly calls everyone names, hurts people and
animals, and of course drives me insane.

I think one of the things you probably should do is see your Dr and get a
referral to a parenting help/child behaviour unit of some kind. You have been
hoeing a hard row for the last few years and it's about time you had some
help, not the brush-off from your Dr. The fact that hurting your son is
starting to look tempting is enough reason for your Dr to get you that
referral. A second reason is that 4yos don't deliberately hurt animals
(though they may hurt people that they find annoying). Also, with all this
worry, perhaps your own prescription needs to go up a bit.

As far as I
can see, without a father figure in this boys life, he could care less
what I do or say to make him understand he's a horrible kid.

But why do you want to convince him that he's horrible? If he thinks he's
horrible, he'll act horribly -- and that isn't what you want!

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Life is like a cigarette -- smoke it to the butt." -- Harvie Krumpet

I guess I wasn't in a very good frame of mind when I wrote this last night.
I don't want to convince him he's horrible. I want him to understand that
being naughty doesn't get him what he wants, and bothers people. He's an
agressive child whp tends to think that when he's upset - he can throw
things or kick and scream. It bugs me that my son seems so out of control.
Yes, I know I have my own issues too...

I was raised fairly strict, with discipline for my poor actions. In todays
world, people seem to think discipline is wrong, and spanking abuse. I
believe that's why kids these days have no respect, and no self respect.
In turn, I have tried to raise my son with the same attitude as my parents
raised me. Trust me, I wish communicating took care of all the issues I
have with him, but when you're 4, a "talk" doesn't solve anything.

A typical day for my child is constantly bothering the cat,(usually
pulling hair, tail, sitting or squeezing it hard). ALso he calls anyone
and everyone names (about 300 times a day). After telling him NOT to do
these things, why he shouldn't, removing him from the situation, time
outs, soap in the mouth for the name calling at last resort, he still
wakes up the next morning and does it all over again.

WHen you break everything down- my son is a sweetheart with high
intelligence. Everything is just out of whack. I also said sometimes I'd
like to drop-kick my kid - I did say I would never actually do that, it's
just a mood lifter (it generally makes people laugh when you say it!)

It's very hard to try and get everything into black and white here, but
I'm trying to be as specific as possible in hopes someone out there will
read this and say "wow that sounds just like "so & so" and know what to
do!

When parenting doesn't work, I feel like a failure. I guess in part
because I'm his only parent in his life.

Nolte009 wrote:

I was raised fairly strict, with discipline for my poor actions. In todays
world, people seem to think discipline is wrong, and spanking abuse.

No, it's not discipline that's a problem. Most people
are in favor of discipline. It's corporal punishment that many
people disagree with, and there's pretty much abundant evidence
that corporal punishment is not required for discipline.

I
believe that's why kids these days have no respect, and no self respect.
In turn, I have tried to raise my son with the same attitude as my parents
raised me.

Which clearly, based on what you've said here, hasn't
worked.

Trust me, I wish communicating took care of all the issues I
have with him, but when you're 4, a "talk" doesn't solve anything.

There's a huge middle ground between corporal punishment
and "just talking."

A typical day for my child is constantly bothering the cat,(usually
pulling hair, tail, sitting or squeezing it hard). ALso he calls anyone
and everyone names (about 300 times a day). After telling him NOT to do
these things, why he shouldn't, removing him from the situation, time
outs, soap in the mouth for the name calling at last resort, he still
wakes up the next morning and does it all over again.

Which, to me, suggests to me a couple of things:

1) He has seen examples of these behaviors (e.g., name calling)
before. Look hard at the people he's exposed to and ask
yourself where he's seeing this language modeled. You're
not going to get anywhere without fixing that.
2) Clearly, the consequences you've imposed for his misbehaviors
don't mean anything to him. You need to find something that
*does* mean something to him, and you need to be consistent
and disciplined yourself in how you impose consequences.
Eventually, you must help him build internal discipline,
but until then, externally imposed consequences can help
him make connections between his behavior and results.

One book that may help you find your way to having some
non-violent consequences and some consistency is a book
called _The Manipulative Child_ by Swihart and Cotter.
The title is somewhat misleading, as it's not a book about
manipulation in the negative sense that most people think
of it. It's not a book about "problem kids." It's a book
about perfectly normal kids who are smart enough to attempt
to manipulate their environment to get what they want (as
most of us do). Their strategies are designed to help you
make their inappropriate manipulations unsuccessful without
resorting to violence and overly-punitive situations. They
also give advice for how to be supportive. Their suggestions
are, however, pretty labor-intensive. You have to be willing
and able to put in the time and energy (which will be true
of anything that has a chance at success--inconsistent
application is likely to get you in more trouble, and is
likely what has gotten you to this situation in the first
place).
You also have to be willing to understand where
he's coming from and to listen to what he has to say
and consider it. That doesn't mean that you always
capitulate, but he deserves to be heard and understood.
Authoritarian parenting frequently has the sorts of
results you're experiencing (serious rebellion). You
need to be the adult, but you need to be the adult by
virtue of wisdom, experience and internal discipline,
not by virtue of being bigger, stronger, and more able
to impose your will without question or consideration.

It's very hard to try and get everything into black and white here, but
I'm trying to be as specific as possible in hopes someone out there will
read this and say "wow that sounds just like "so & so" and know what to
do!

There is no magic bullet, and there is no secret
knowledge. It's mostly common sense, but it takes great
discipline, consistency, and thoughtfulness on the part
of the parent to make things work out. It can be very
difficult to muster up those things when you're depressed
and overwhelmed and stressed out. It can also be difficult
to perservere through the process, as these things don't
get better overnight once you've found some magical technique.
It takes a while, and not infrequently things get worse
before they get better. Your kid's got your number--he
knows he can get away with stuff without any consequences
that mean much to him. When you start to be more consistent,
he's just going to up the ante for a while, figuring he
can win again and reestablish his position if he's just
willing to ride out your resolve again.

When parenting doesn't work, I feel like a failure. I guess in part
because I'm his only parent in his life.

Blaming and feeling like a failure isn't going to
get you anywhere. You may find that some professional
help can give you a sounding board to help you work
through specific issues, especially since your own
depression and stresses may make it difficult to see
appropriate solutions and persevere through them
without becoming too negative.

Best wishes,
Ericka

I was so sympathetic of your case but please feel relaxed that at some
time or another we all feel like we are not good parents or not coping
in one way or another. No matter what anyone says. You are trying to
cope with the two most stressfull jobs, raising a child and running a
home single handed. So the thought that you are not succeeding must be
taken from your mind immediately.

I don't know you but by the sound of your post you have lots of other
issues you need to confront as well. But for now I will talk to you
about the childcare issue.

I run a Christian pre-school and most days have twenty under fives in
my care. I love all of them with a passion they are beautiful
children. BUT I MUST have very strict boundaries in place to ensure
they all know what they are supposed to be doing and how they are
supposed to be behaving. From the first day they are with me the rules
are put in place.

They must learn respect- I find not bellowing at them and just getting
to eye level and explaining calmly but firmly what they have done wrong
is a good place to start. If they continue to ignore you some "time
out" does not hurt. If they do listen plenty of over the top praise is
just as important. A sticker chart can combat a multitude of things but
you must be honest.

Some take longer that others to grasp what they are supposed to do but
with consistency we get there. As well as the strict boundaries we have
very good motivational systems, rewards schemes as in the shape of
stickers, positive re-inforcement all the time I believe a negative
response should be followed by an "over the top" positive response. I
know that when a child is being "difficult" it is something hard to see
any good in what they are doing, if you can't see anything apparent
tell them how beautiful they are. these are not overnight answers
because it is a tangled web but by showing the child love he will get
better self esteem and start to feel good about himself, it is NOT too
late. You probably have been a little pre-occupied with your
relationship breakdown for some years and by the sound of your posting
it still bothers you. Your child may have picked up on this and is
angling for attention.

I hope some of my comments help, I see this kine of thing everyday, I
have parents coming to me saying

"Good luck, with so and so, hope you have more luck with hime than we
do."

With difinite boundaries I soon have them to my way of thinking.
I have to go now and put my own boy to bed but if I can be of help
please do not hestitate to contact me.

God bless

Lesley

God bless

Thanks for the kind words. You actually reminded me of something else. My
son is now going to my sisters while I work, but had been in a few
daycares prior. Less than a year ago, he was attending a daycare and
disappeared without any of the staff noticing. He was found by an older
woman playing in the street. The police came and got him, and must've
found out from my son, where he came from. The next daycare I picked, I
obviously wasn't taking him back to the neglectful one!, was a very nice
daycare, and they were very active with the kids. I thought that was just
my son needed. I indeed said the same thing to them as you've heard "hope
you have better luck with him than I do". I had told them about the
previous daycare situation, and to watch him extra close! But also that
had issues listening, and hurting others - without thinking twice of what
he's doing. It's funny, for the first approximately 2 months, they said I
had such a well behaved child, so of course I asked what they did to him!!
After another month or so, he felt comfortable with his teachers, and
starting raising hell. He was constantly in trouble. The worst thing had
to be the time I picked him up and was told he took scissors to another
students back and cut him.

I just don't understand how he can be so stubborn and naughty most of the
time. The only time he's not naughty is when he's sick. I wish I had the
time to see a child psychiatrist, or family counsellor, but I would be
losing some paycheck doing so. And what job these days wants someone
taking days off all the time. I feel trapped by the operational hours and
my working hours. Needless to say, I'd be all for it though. I won't
jeopardize my menial income.

I appreciate the replies to my post, thanks for your time.

Nolte009 wrote:
Thanks for the kind words. You actually reminded me of something
else. My
son is now going to my sisters while I work, but had been in a few
daycares prior. Less than a year ago, he was attending a daycare and
disappeared without any of the staff noticing. He was found by an
older
woman playing in the street. The police came and got him, and must've
found out from my son, where he came from. The next daycare I picked,
I
obviously wasn't taking him back to the neglectful one!, was a very
nice
daycare, and they were very active with the kids. I thought that was
just
my son needed. I indeed said the same thing to them as you've heard
"hope
you have better luck with him than I do". I had told them about the
previous daycare situation, and to watch him extra close! But also
that
had issues listening, and hurting others - without thinking twice of
what
he's doing. It's funny, for the first approximately 2 months, they
said I
had such a well behaved child, so of course I asked what they did to
him!!
After another month or so, he felt comfortable with his teachers, and
starting raising hell. He was constantly in trouble. The worst thing
had
to be the time I picked him up and was told he took scissors to
another
students back and cut him.

I just don't understand how he can be so stubborn and naughty most
of the
time. The only time he's not naughty is when he's sick. I wish I had
the
time to see a child psychiatrist, or family counsellor, but I would
be
losing some paycheck doing so. And what job these days wants someone
taking days off all the time. I feel trapped by the operational hours
and
my working hours. Needless to say, I'd be all for it though. I won't
jeopardize my menial income.

I appreciate the replies to my post, thanks for your time.


You have a multitude of issues here. Your stress level must be way up
the scale I am in England so I do not know how America works. Could
your doctor not give you a sick certificate, stress is classified as a
major illness over here, so that you can have some time off work to
gather your thoughts.

How is your son with your sister when he is in her care?

I am so sorry to hear you have had a bad experience with your child's
day care,It must have been awful for him and very scarey. I must say
it is very important to get your child socialising with other children
as soon as possible, can you not get him into a group that is smaller
with higher staffing ratios. my group only has 18 children maximum per
session and four members of staff (1-5), that way no one feels left
out, it sounds like the staff at the second pre-school probably started
off giving him the attention he craves and when he settled down instead
of carrying it on they thought oh well he is ok now and perhaps
unwittingly left him to his own devices again which is not what should
have happened. He needs consistant care in a group with very definite
boundaries and plenty of praise, at four he could be given
responsibilties like handing out the snack at snack time, we do this
and give out superstar certificates to any child who does it correctly,
they like to wash up, they like to set the table all with plenty of
praise they join in eagerly, they even join in with making the snack,
they love it!

You see the foundation for self esteem is laid down in the years before
the are three and if those foundations are not set properly it is very
hard to then build on them. In the important years you were (and still
are) stressing about your relationship breakdown, It's not too late
though. Key words here a

Patience
Positive re-inforcent
Definite boundaries
Love
Social stimulation
Voice tone and facial expression

Try giving him a behaviour chart with a treat for say 10 smiley faces,
also we have a bear called Bertie and each child has a turn taking him
home, he has a case and in the case he has a face cloth, a towel, a
story book, a comb and a diary, the children have even added bits of
their own objects, scarf, baby grow, if a child is a little upset they
get to take the bear home as a comfort for the night or until the next
time they come. They have to care for Bertie. This has had amazing
effect on the children of the group. perhaps you could ask your sister
to at the end of some weeks reward him with something like Bertie that
he has to return on a Monday morning and only have on a Friday if he
has behaved himself. But be honest if he has not been deserved of it
then he does not get it. but be aware of the good things he does and
tell him why he is getting it. Be fair but firm with him. At the
moment he seems to be ruling you.

Please, finally can I also say please try and not use the word
"naughty" or infact the word "good" they are just that - Words they
don't mean anything to a child because they do not explain why they are
naughty.. You need to say something like

"That's very bad, you mustn't do that with the scissors, it will hurt
etc, etc"

don't shout but be firm the tone of your voice or the look on your face
should tell the child he has gone too far.

In the same vein if he has done good you say.

"That's EXCELLENT, WELL DONE, what a lovely picture or wasn't you kind
to so and so" again your facial expression and sound of your voice
should tell him how you feel about him.

I hope I haven't gone on too long, but I really do see this every day.
And it isn't only single parent families who experience this.

I hope you feel better talking. Look after yourself, is there not a
health visitor who might be able to point you in the direction of a
self help group because it seems like you need some help for your own
sanity.

regards

Lesley

I didn't finish reading the whole thread because I was getting a little
tired of the chewing out you were getting (even when phrased in such
*helpful* terms) but I thought I'd send a reply and tell you that you
aren't alone.

You did start your post by announcing you were venting...sounds like a
fairly viable way to blow off some steam by smacking it out in letter.
I'm a single mom, dad has been out of the picture (thankfully) since my
daughter was 2 years and my son about 5 months old. It can be an
intensely draining experience! If it helps at all, my kids are 9 and
10 years old now and somehow I survived without hurting anyone and my
kids seem pretty healthy and happy. You sound like where I've been,
especially with my son who is also "smart as hell" and was a limit
pusher beyond anything I'd ever considered before. In his case,
standard parenting techniques weren't particularly effective.
Sometimes that behaviour goes with "smart as hell". I look back and
wonder how, with so little sleep and so much stress, I managed to
survive that time.

My suggestion, although it may have been mentioned already, is to get
some respite care. I don't know if you live in the US but, if so, you
might want to get in touch with Head Start in your area - they can be a
HUGE help. I also know many places have childcare referral agencies
(non profits) that can offer respite care for parents (subsidized
childcare for low income, high risk situations).
Hope something in this post helps.

~dmc

Nolte wrote:

But also that
had issues listening, and hurting others - without thinking twice of
what
he's doing. It's funny, for the first approximately 2 months, they said
I
had such a well behaved child, so of course I asked what they did to
him!!
After another month or so, he felt comfortable with his teachers, and
starting raising hell. He was constantly in trouble.

My reply:
This sounds exactly like my son. I responded earlier in this thread
and have finally gotten around to reading the rest (at least to this
point). My son has one of the biggest hearts I've ever seen and is
intellectually gifted. On the other hand, he is extremely active
(wasn't easy getting them to assess him for being gifted instead of
just trying to dose him with ritalin in the public school system).
When he was preschool age, trying to get him to take a nap was a
nightmare, and when putting him to bed at night, he would just bounce
in his bed and then come out over and over. I finally resorted to
putting him to bed with me most of the time because, otherwise, he
would keep himself stimulated all night long. The tireder he got, the
more active and *bouncing off the walls* he got.

I also work full time and, although I've found a charter school that
works fairly well with him, I still have a difficult time finding
suitable and affordable care during school vacations. I was lucky in
that I found a preschool teacher who basically told me "He's very
gifted and you're in big trouble!" I use a lot of behaviour
modification I learned from my mom who worked with children with
learning disabilities for 30 years. It meant being very creative,
taking very small steps in what improvement I expected, and keeping a
firm eye on his strengths and how I wanted those to develop - not just
that I wanted to change his negative behaviour. I still try to find
one thing, usually in the evening, that we can do together that is
something he enjoys. We read the Hobbit together and I didn't worry
about whether he spun in a circle in the living room when it was my
turn to read - I just figured he needed some time with an adult where
he was allowed to be himself and not get yelled at. When he was
younger we would build block cities...but I let him guide me and didn't
worry about it if he wanted to have total control over the play.
Basically, no matter if he's had a "bad" day or not, I try to make sure
he gets at least a little "peace" time every evening and it keeps me in
touch with how much fun he is and what a good kid he is overall. Some
of the other tricks I learned with my "mini mongol horde wrapped up in
one little kid body" was to talk to him side to side, not face to face,
when I really wanted him to hear me. Direct eye contact when he was
agitated would make him bounce more. Also, I learned to give him
something to hold in his hands and fidget with while we talked...a
squishy ball, legos, blocks to stack, something. The other thing that
comes to mind is that over stimulation really wound him up - loud
noises (like yelling) or too much touching. It doesn't mean I didn't
yell sometimes when I was frustrated, just that I admitted to myself
that when I did yell, he wasn't going to hear me at all and I'd have to
deal with a wound up kid for a while - so I didn't expect it to get
through to him. He was very sensitive to physical contact and holding
his arm or turning him to face me could cause that "You don't exist in
my universe" wall to come down. Others doing that would really set him
off. Basically, I learned to see what set him off and worked from
there instead of deciding what should work and wondering why he didn't
respond as the books/experts/whatever said he should.

This is all just based on my experience with my little guy so there is
no telling if it relates to your experiences with your son. I would
still recommend getting some outside help and evaluation - just do your
best to find and follow the advice of people who see your son's
strengths as well as his challenges so it doesn't turn into a "bad
kid/bad parent" fest. I'll never forget sitting in an IEP where one
"expert" was sure I spoiled him, another was sure I bullied him, and
another just thought he should be medicated.

Take care,

~dmc