More School Issues (warning: VERY long!)

H Schinske wrote:
Donna ) wrote:
In general (including the stuff I snipped), I think meeting with
the teacher is in order, especially to find out what this all
means-if it is FYI, that's fine-if it will affect which grade or
class he is in next year, that's another thing entirely.

I agree entirely. If they're teaching spelling with tests *at all*
in first grade (which I don't even believe in, I don't think they
do a lick of good), they ought to be doing it with words that
reinforce their knowledge of phonetic rules. A random list of
animals is no use at all.

The list of animals was a bit unusual. The week before, all the words had
"oo" in them--balloon, cartoon, loop, scoop, etc. This week's is all words
with the "ow/ou" dipthong, half of them being "ou" and half being "ow".
Julian says he got 100% on the pretest for this week's list.

I didn't mention the other part of these tests which is the dictation
sentences. There are two sentences each week which they are supposed to
write correctly, down to capitalization and punctuation, one each week's
test. This week's a

I am proud of your good work.
The cat said, "Meow."

The first one seems okay, I guess, if you think this is useful (which I
really don't, but I'm not going to argue with her about it). But I don't
even think these kids have learned any punctuation beyond capitals, periods,
exclamation points, and question marks. Adding in quotation marks and commas
at this stage seems a little--well--ambitious.

Last week's sentences to go with the list of animals we

Many animals live on the earth.
Do you like bananas?

Incidentally, the California first-grade standard regarding
spelling is "Spell three- and four-letter short-vowel words and
grade-level-appropriate sight words correctly."

Yep. And I have the list of grade level sight words. Julian can spell nearly
all of them correctly quite easily. These aren't the words he's being tested
on, however, and I presume it's these weekly spelling tests that are
represented in the grade he got in "Uses correct spelling on tests."
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [2] mom)

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

wrote:

Yep. And I have the list of grade level sight words. Julian can spell nearly
all of them correctly quite easily. These aren't the words he's being tested
on, however, and I presume it's these weekly spelling tests that are
represented in the grade he got in "Uses correct spelling on tests."

AARRRGGGHHH!

I'm sorry, there's just nothing else to say.

AARRRGGGHHH!

--Helen

H Schinske wrote:
wrote:

Yep. And I have the list of grade level sight words. Julian can
spell nearly all of them correctly quite easily. These aren't the
words he's being tested on, however, and I presume it's these
weekly spelling tests that are represented in the grade he got in
"Uses correct spelling on tests."

AARRRGGGHHH!

I'm sorry, there's just nothing else to say.

AARRRGGGHHH!

Well, I'll take that as a form of moral support, anyway g.

My meeting with the teacher is this Thursday. One of the questions I plan to
ask is what that mark refers to. I want to make sure we're practicing the
right thing.

BTW, in addition to the regular spelling list and the math problem, we have
a baggy of what must be at least 100 words on little cards which we are
supposed to practice reading and spelling EVERY day. This week's words to be
added to the baggy:

always
eight
arms
seven
warm
ready
body

Would you be surprised to learn we've *never* actually gotten around to
practicing them?
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [2] mom)

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

Circe wrote:


Okay, so that's the end of my long and perhaps disjointed rant. Any
advice/thoughts for me?



My second grader is having to memorize the math facts to 20
this year, which I approve of, but no timed tests. My older
one, at the same school, did not have to memorize them, but
did have timed tests. So I'm not sure what our state
requirements are (and NC is as test happy as any state.)

FWIW, I'd be just as unhappy at such a high pressure school
as you are. It just doesn't sound like a good match for
your philosophy, the child currently enrolled, and certainly
not for your younger one, from what I know of her. What are
your options? Do you think things will get any better as
the years go on?

I'd certainly voice my concerns to your teacher, especially
regarding the homework expectations, but to me it sounds
like it's time to do some school shopping (and this coming
from someone practically married to her local public school,
flaws and all.)

Lesley

and online games) to help get him up to speed, but in the final analysis,
I'm just not very happy with the way the standard is being applied.


If you don't mind the cost (about $80) may I suggest a game called
Quarter Mile Math. It's a big hit among homeschoolers for
supplementing everything from addition facts to algebra. It really
motivated my 8 year old in his multiplication facts.

http://www.thequartermile.com/

Writing

I'm not as worried about the writing as I am about the math facts because I
think that writing naturally comes with reading, provided the fine motor
skills are there. Julian's fine motor skills have always been behind the
curve, and he is on the younger end of the scale for first-graders anyway. I
truly believe that most of the issues (legibility, etc.) will come up to
speed in second grade as his fine motor skills improve. Still, I've seen
remarkable improvement in his writing (both speed and legibility) since the
first trimester, so I'm somewhat surprised that his marks didn't improve.

The one area in which I have an argument is in the "use of standard spelling
on tests" mark. Now, it's true, we weren't doing a very good job of
reviewing the spelling test words and I suppose he didn't do as well as he
could have on tests as a result, but really, some of the word lists she's
giving just seem very advanced for first graders. Last week, for example,
it was a list of animals. The only things they had in common were that they
were plural and they were animals.

I find it odd that they aren't teaching based on spelling/phonetics
rules. It makes much more sense. For example, -ou and -ow sounds so a
list that would look like clown, loud, etc....... or ai and ay-play,
train.....
It would frustrate me too.


Okay, so that's the end of my long and perhaps disjointed rant. Any
advice/thoughts for me?

Children hating school in first grade is just plain WRONG. This is the
time when a love of learning needs to be fostered not a hate of school
being developed. If I was the mom of those twins I'd be very concerned
also. I don't think you are at all out of line for having issues with
what has been going on. Granted, I homeschool my children (and we have
our share of frustrations and problems, it isn't a bed of roses) but I
don't think that is a solution for everyone and that people that do
choose to send their children to public school should be able to have
happy children and have children who enjoy learning and school.

Karen

If you don't mind the cost (about $80) may I suggest a game called
Quarter Mile Math.

There are free games at http://www.aplusmath.com , too, which might be a start.
I found it from http://mathforum.org/library/levels/elem1/ .

--Helen

H Schinske wrote:
There are free games at http://www.aplusmath.com , too, which might
be a start. I found it from
http://mathforum.org/library/levels/elem1/ .

Yeah, I've foumd those and Julian's using them already. There are a couple
of other sites he likes as well.

Circe wrote:

Addition and subtraction facts

The California state standard calls for first graders to "know the addition
facts (sums) to 20 and the corresponding subtraction facts and commit them
to memory". For this trimester, they were
tested on the facts up to 12. I don't have a problem with teaching this
(although I do think it's a LOT to expect a 6yo to memorize) but I do have a
bit of an issue with the standard they're using for testing it. This
standard is that the child can write the answers to 20 problems in 90
seconds.


This strikes me as, in a word, stupid. I can't see how timed responses
to these problems show anything. but I guess you know that.


Meanwhile, I'm trying to come up with some games (both of my own invention
and online games) to help get him up to speed, but in the final analysis,
I'm just not very happy with the way the standard is being applied.


Try 24 Game - it's a addition and subtraction game using cards and yes,
timing can be a part of the game.

My daughter likes this game (we use the easiest cards although she can
do, with some effort, the middle set).


Writing

I'm not as worried about the writing as I am about the math facts because I
think that writing naturally comes with reading, provided the fine motor
skills are there. Julian's fine motor skills have always been behind the
curve, and he is on the younger end of the scale for first-graders anyway. I
truly believe that most of the issues (legibility, etc.) will come up to
speed in second grade as his fine motor skills improve. Still, I've seen
remarkable improvement in his writing (both speed and legibility) since the
first trimester, so I'm somewhat surprised that his marks didn't improve.

The one area in which I have an argument is in the "use of standard spelling
on tests" mark. Now, it's true, we weren't doing a very good job of
reviewing the spelling test words and I suppose he didn't do as well as he
could have on tests as a result, but really, some of the word lists she's
giving just seem very advanced for first graders. Last week, for example,
it was a list of animals. The only things they had in common were that they
were plural and they were animals. The ten words we cats, kittens,
turtles, toads, zebras, horses, owls, ants, snakes, and one other that
escapes me. Now, Julian apparently got 100% on the test, but we had to spend
well over 2 hours during the week (and a full 45 minutes the night before)
drilling the words to achieve that. This is in addition to the standard
homework that takes 10-20 minutes to complete (though, thankfully, he has
gotten much better at buckling down and doing it).

I just think this is way too much for first grade. Am I crazy?


No you're not crazy.


Other areas

I see so much improvement in his ability to finish his homework quickly,
without getting distracted and making better use of his time that I'm having
trouble understanding how he is still getting "Needs Improvement" marks in
these areas. Possibly, what's happening in the classroom is very different
from what's happening at home, but it's hard for me to believe that it's
really harder for him to do his work in class than at home when he's got
two siblings playing, making noise, pestering him (when I can't prevent it),
etc. So these are areas in which I feel I need to probe his teacher for more
information.


Last week, I had a teacher-parent conference with DD's teacher and she
said her main concern with DD was her study habits. Apparently, in
class, DD has a hard time choosing tasks (she's in a Montessori school,
so they essentially choose what job or task they want to do within
certain guidelines), and a tough time with completion with a task. Like
Julian probably, the issue is not whether or not she is able to do the
task, it's more she's having a problem remaining focused long enough to
complete the assignment. She's a very social child and easily
distracted by activity in the classroom (lots of children doing lots of
things).

The teacher said this is a tough hurdle for many young students. So
while DD has improved since the beginning of the school year, she still
needs to work on this area.

Jeanne

"Circe" writes:

I have been posting on and off since Julian (now in first grade) started
kindergarten about my concerns regarding what I
perceive to be an overly aggressive and academically pressured educational
atmosphere at our elementary school. This post would be even longer than

It sounds to me as if the school is broken. You should be trying to get
your son into a private school, or move so that you can send him to a more
sensible public school.

Circe wrote in message
news:JAG7c.36877$Bg.32062@fed1read03...

The California state standard calls for first graders to "know the
addition
facts (sums) to 20 and the corresponding subtraction facts and commit them
to memory". For this trimester, they were
tested on the facts up to 12. I don't have a problem with teaching this
(although I do think it's a LOT to expect a 6yo to memorize) but I do have
a
bit of an issue with the standard they're using for testing it. This
standard is that the child can write the answers to 20 problems in 90
seconds.

IMO that's a tough standard for a 6yo. The 6yos whose skill in this
area I'm familiar with probably couldn't pass that test, at least in
part because their motor skills are slower. I know that on a test of
54 subtraction problems (up through 19, so harder than the ones you're
talking about) none of the 6yos come close to finishing in the 3
minutes allotted. They usually complete 20 - 30 problems correctly in
3 minutes. However, in their case, they're not really expected to
finish at 6yo, that's just practice for when they will be expected to
finish by 7 or 8yo. The quick 8yos can do the 54 problems in 90
seconds.

Does the child need to get 20 correct (out of possibly more on the
test) to get a "passing" grade? Or are there 20 on the test, of which
they're expected to get some somewhat smaller number completed correctly
in order to pass. Do they practice this every day in class?

--Robyn