Doan influences parents to choose CP

A typical "never-spanked" boy! ;-)

AFfromDreamLand

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
Now where in this study that it says that "spanking increased the rate of
street entries"?

I didn't say it did, nor did I say it didn't.

Come on, Kane.

Where?

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!

No, to either. Not until you do.

Doan

Produce an argument about this study, or I'll simply discuss it with
others. You aren't debating, you are avoiding debate.

Doan't



On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:


How can you tell when Doan has lost the debate?

Easy. He attacks everything else connected to the subject rather than
argue the content.

And COWARDLY REFUSES TO EITHER DEBATE, OR CONCEDE.

Come on, droaner....tell us some more about how this isn't about spanking.

Or dream up some other bs to pull that is not debate.

Obviously you have conceded but are too cowardly to admit it like a man.

The Embry study stands as a valid and important piece of research into a
classic and hoary claim by spankers that shreds their claim in tatters.

You cannot teach a child to play safely around nearby traffic by
spanking them.

Or, feel free, droaning away, to provide research of this kind and
method, that shows spanking teaches the same age range of children to
stay out of traffic.

Your call. Coward.

Kane

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Doan wrote:
Ignoranus kane0 spoke! ;-)

In other words you have no plausible response. My comments stand as
unrefuted.

We are still waiting for a study on spanking that meets the same or
similar accepted scientific research methods as the Embry experiment
and shows equal or better results for spanking.

0:-



Doan

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
The Embry study has nothing to do with spanking and street entries.

It has everything to do with NOT using spanking and instead using
alternatives.

This group is about spanking and challengest to it.

You are stupid.

If
you can provide any data from this study that support your claim that
spanking increased the rate of street entries, I would be truly indebted!

You are stupid.

The study was referred to long ago as an alternative to spanking.

And no, I've told you I am not going to give a source for my comment,
and you are free to discount it.

I want to see you or anyone counter the conclusion of the Embry study
with similar exeriments with spanking.






AFfromDreamLand

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan is going to provide us with a report on spanking as a way to teach
children to stay out of traffic that will meet or exceed the finding of
the Safe Play experiment, that reduced the incidence of street entries
by children under five to 10% of baseline entries.

We have lots of time, Doan.

Let us know when you have the data and a report.

Possibly you'd like to use your own children for subjects?

0:-

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

doan't the pathetic pitiful coward thinks Baumrind is the authority,
along with Dobson to Dogbeater. Both "prove" spanking works and is not
harmful.........R R R R R R

What LaVonne mentioned about the standing or lack of it by Baumrind
stands. This IS a peer and researcher addressing her on her Berkeley
presentation.


http://www.nospank.net/baumrind.htm
THE BAUMRIND FALLACY
BAUMRIND: "The scientific case against the use of normative physical
punishment is a leaky dike."
RIAK: "Dr. Baumrind has proven the obvious: that a known dangerous
toxin, if sufficiently diluted, has no measurable ill effects."


http://www.nospank.net/fathman3.htm
Robert Fathman's letter to Diana Baumrind
August 29, 2001

29 August 2001

Diana Baumrind, Ph.D.
Research Psychologist
Institute of Human Development
University of California Berkeley
Fax: 1-510-642-7969

Dear Dr. Baumrind:

I am writing to express my concern about the paper you presented
last week at the annual meeting of the American Psychological
Association. I am a psychologist myself, but was unable to attend APA
this year. I e-mailed your office a week ago requesting a copy of the
study you presented, by e-mail or snail mail, and have received no
reply. But I have spoken to a psychologist in your audience who
received the handout and took notes, and of course no one in America
could escape reading about your study in various newspapers or hearing
about it on news shows. So, I have not had the opportunity to yet read
the full study and examine your statistical methods in detail, but I
believe I have a fairly good read on the research design, and would be
happy to have you correct me if I have any misconceptions. And I still
await receiving a copy of the study.

I write in hopes that you will immediately issue press releases
recanting the conclusions you have been quoted as reaching. You are
quoted as saying that mild to moderate spanking is not harmful. Yet
your research was based on case studies of only 3 children who had
non-spanking parents, and 79 whose parents spanked in the degree you
considered mild or moderate. To have only 3 subjects in one of your
principal variable groups does not constitute research, does it? I was
taught that such an incredibly small number would just constitute an
anecdotal report, an observation, not science. If in even my first year
of graduate school I had written up a research design with such a small
number of subjects, I would surely have received an "F" on the paper,
and the quality of my undergrad education would have been in question.
As you surely understand, when the number in one group is so tiny as
this, huge differences in behavior or cognition would have been
necessary to report any significant differences. [And even the spanked
kids were grouped into statistical cells of only 6 to 8 children,
correct?]

In other words, using only 3 non-spanked kids had the effect of
building into the conclusions an impossibility of finding any
differences with spanked kids -- right? Don't you agree? I think you
would find it impossible yourself to have any professional journal in
our field accept such inadequate research for publication. And to state
conclusions that have such far reaching effects on the health and
safety of children based on a "study" that would not pass peer review
is not responsible. Again, if I am incorrect because I have not
received the requested paper, please let me know.

You can gain back the professional respect you have lost among your
colleagues if you will immediately notify the news media in strong,
clear, unambiguous language that the conclusions drawn were incorrect
for such limited data, that you erred and wish to have the mistake
corrected.

I would be happy to assist you in making this correction and
apology widely known and respectfully received.

Looking forward to your response,

Robert E. Fathman, Ph.D.
...........

Gimmee a "LOL!" there Doan't.

You might check the following as well:
http://www.nospank.net/charles7.htm

Someone who stands up to your kind of little thug, doan't:
http://www.nospank.net/tanya.htm

Expanding on Riak's "dilution" comment.
http://www.nospank.net/riaklet3.htm

http://www.nospank.net/dugan7.htm
" ... I am not an advocate of spanking," said Baumrind, "but a blanket
injunction : against its use is not warranted by the evidence. It is
reliance on physical : punishment, not whether or not it is used at
all, that is associated with harm : to the child."

DUGAN: Whenever anyone cites this study as if it vindicates spanking, I
will be sure to remind them that the major author herself said that
reliance on physical punishment is associated with harm to the child.
This is not surprising. Baumrind has in the past concluded that
authoritarian approaches to parenting are associated with long term
negative effects on children. And neither this study, or any previous
studies by Baumrind, have found any measurable evidence of any form of
measurable long term benefit to children from spanking.

Once again, spanking has been placed under scientific scrutiny, and
once again no evidence of long term benefit to children has come to
light. ..."

Do you, Doan't, know of a valid piece of research that in fact does
show both no harm to children and appeciable gains in teaching the
child wanted behaviors?

We'd be happy to find one. The existing works are unacceptable to
professionals in the field as well as interested parties.

0:-




..

Hahaha! Kane0 is relying on propaganda website like nospank.net. He is
too stupid to notice that even people like Murray Straus admitted that
this study is "the best single study available".


http://www.cyc-net.org/today2001/today010828.html

"Dr. Straus, who attended Dr. Baumrind's talk, praised her study. "It may
be the best single study available," he said, in terms of methodology."

AFfromDreamLand

On 26 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:

doan't the pathetic pitiful coward thinks Baumrind is the authority,
along with Dobson to Dogbeater. Both "prove" spanking works and is not
harmful.........R R R R R R

What LaVonne mentioned about the standing or lack of it by Baumrind
stands. This IS a peer and researcher addressing her on her Berkeley
presentation.


http://www.nospank.net/baumrind.htm
THE BAUMRIND FALLACY
BAUMRIND: "The scientific case against the use of normative physical
punishment is a leaky dike."
RIAK: "Dr. Baumrind has proven the obvious: that a known dangerous
toxin, if sufficiently diluted, has no measurable ill effects."


http://www.nospank.net/fathman3.htm
Robert Fathman's letter to Diana Baumrind
August 29, 2001

29 August 2001

Diana Baumrind, Ph.D.
Research Psychologist
Institute of Human Development
University of California Berkeley
Fax: 1-510-642-7969

Dear Dr. Baumrind:

I am writing to express my concern about the paper you presented
last week at the annual meeting of the American Psychological
Association. I am a psychologist myself, but was unable to attend APA
this year. I e-mailed your office a week ago requesting a copy of the
study you presented, by e-mail or snail mail, and have received no
reply. But I have spoken to a psychologist in your audience who
received the handout and took notes, and of course no one in America
could escape reading about your study in various newspapers or hearing
about it on news shows. So, I have not had the opportunity to yet read
the full study and examine your statistical methods in detail, but I
believe I have a fairly good read on the research design, and would be
happy to have you correct me if I have any misconceptions. And I still
await receiving a copy of the study.

I write in hopes that you will immediately issue press releases
recanting the conclusions you have been quoted as reaching. You are
quoted as saying that mild to moderate spanking is not harmful. Yet
your research was based on case studies of only 3 children who had
non-spanking parents, and 79 whose parents spanked in the degree you
considered mild or moderate. To have only 3 subjects in one of your
principal variable groups does not constitute research, does it? I was
taught that such an incredibly small number would just constitute an
anecdotal report, an observation, not science. If in even my first year
of graduate school I had written up a research design with such a small
number of subjects, I would surely have received an "F" on the paper,
and the quality of my undergrad education would have been in question.
As you surely understand, when the number in one group is so tiny as
this, huge differences in behavior or cognition would have been
necessary to report any significant differences. [And even the spanked
kids were grouped into statistical cells of only 6 to 8 children,
correct?]

In other words, using only 3 non-spanked kids had the effect of
building into the conclusions an impossibility of finding any
differences with spanked kids -- right? Don't you agree? I think you
would find it impossible yourself to have any professional journal in
our field accept such inadequate research for publication. And to state
conclusions that have such far reaching effects on the health and
safety of children based on a "study" that would not pass peer review
is not responsible. Again, if I am incorrect because I have not
received the requested paper, please let me know.

You can gain back the professional respect you have lost among your
colleagues if you will immediately notify the news media in strong,
clear, unambiguous language that the conclusions drawn were incorrect
for such limited data, that you erred and wish to have the mistake
corrected.

I would be happy to assist you in making this correction and
apology widely known and respectfully received.

Looking forward to your response,

Robert E. Fathman, Ph.D.
..........

Gimmee a "LOL!" there Doan't.

You might check the following as well:
http://www.nospank.net/charles7.htm

Someone who stands up to your kind of little thug, doan't:
http://www.nospank.net/tanya.htm

Expanding on Riak's "dilution" comment.
http://www.nospank.net/riaklet3.htm

http://www.nospank.net/dugan7.htm
" ... I am not an advocate of spanking," said Baumrind, "but a blanket
injunction : against its use is not warranted by the evidence. It is
reliance on physical : punishment, not whether or not it is used at
all, that is associated with harm : to the child."

DUGAN: Whenever anyone cites this study as if it vindicates spanking, I
will be sure to remind them that the major author herself said that
reliance on physical punishment is associated with harm to the child.
This is not surprising. Baumrind has in the past concluded that
authoritarian approaches to parenting are associated with long term
negative effects on children. And neither this study, or any previous
studies by Baumrind, have found any measurable evidence of any form of
measurable long term benefit to children from spanking.

Once again, spanking has been placed under scientific scrutiny, and
once again no evidence of long term benefit to children has come to
light. ..."

Do you, Doan't, know of a valid piece of research that in fact does
show both no harm to children and appeciable gains in teaching the
child wanted behaviors?

We'd be happy to find one. The existing works are unacceptable to
professionals in the field as well as interested parties.

0:-




.

On 26 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
Ignoranus kane0 spoke! ;-)

In other words you have no plausible response. My comments stand as
unrefuted.

LOL! Your STUPIDITY stand as unrefuted!

We are still waiting for a study on spanking that meets the same or
similar accepted scientific research methods as the Embry experiment
and shows equal or better results for spanking.

Hahaha! Another stupid comment from ignoranus kane0!

AFfromdreamland




Doan

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
The Embry study has nothing to do with spanking and street entries.

It has everything to do with NOT using spanking and instead using
alternatives.

This group is about spanking and challengest to it.

You are stupid.

If
you can provide any data from this study that support your claim that
spanking increased the rate of street entries, I would be truly indebted!

You are stupid.

The study was referred to long ago as an alternative to spanking.

And no, I've told you I am not going to give a source for my comment,
and you are free to discount it.

I want to see you or anyone counter the conclusion of the Embry study
with similar exeriments with spanking.






AFfromDreamLand

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan is going to provide us with a report on spanking as a way to teach
children to stay out of traffic that will meet or exceed the finding of
the Safe Play experiment, that reduced the incidence of street entries
by children under five to 10% of baseline entries.

We have lots of time, Doan.

Let us know when you have the data and a report.

Possibly you'd like to use your own children for subjects?

0:-

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Doan wrote:
On 26 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
Ignoranus kane0 spoke! ;-)

In other words you have no plausible response. My comments stand as
unrefuted.

LOL! Your STUPIDITY stand as unrefuted!

We are still waiting for a study on spanking that meets the same or
similar accepted scientific research methods as the Embry experiment
and shows equal or better results for spanking.

Hahaha! Another stupid comment from ignoranus kane0!

In other words, no plausible counter argument, and nothing but silly
harassment.

We are still waiting for a study on spanking that meets the same or
similar accepted scientific research methods as the Embry experiment
and shows equal or better results for spanking.

Apparently you can't find anything or are too cowardly to admit it, or
debate. Nothing new.

Kane




AFfromdreamland




Doan

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
The Embry study has nothing to do with spanking and street entries.

It has everything to do with NOT using spanking and instead using
alternatives.

This group is about spanking and challengest to it.

You are stupid.

If
you can provide any data from this study that support your claim that
spanking increased the rate of street entries, I would be truly indebted!

You are stupid.

The study was referred to long ago as an alternative to spanking.

And no, I've told you I am not going to give a source for my comment,
and you are free to discount it.

I want to see you or anyone counter the conclusion of the Embry study
with similar exeriments with spanking.






AFfromDreamLand

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan is going to provide us with a report on spanking as a way to teach
children to stay out of traffic that will meet or exceed the finding of
the Safe Play experiment, that reduced the incidence of street entries
by children under five to 10% of baseline entries.

We have lots of time, Doan.

Let us know when you have the data and a report.

Possibly you'd like to use your own children for subjects?

0:-

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Hahaha! Someone would harass ignoranus kane0!

AFfromDreamLand

On 26 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
On 26 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan wrote:
Ignoranus kane0 spoke! ;-)

In other words you have no plausible response. My comments stand as
unrefuted.

LOL! Your STUPIDITY stand as unrefuted!

We are still waiting for a study on spanking that meets the same or
similar accepted scientific research methods as the Embry experiment
and shows equal or better results for spanking.

Hahaha! Another stupid comment from ignoranus kane0!

In other words, no plausible counter argument, and nothing but silly
harassment.

We are still waiting for a study on spanking that meets the same or
similar accepted scientific research methods as the Embry experiment
and shows equal or better results for spanking.

Apparently you can't find anything or are too cowardly to admit it, or
debate. Nothing new.

Kane




AFfromdreamland




Doan

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
The Embry study has nothing to do with spanking and street entries.

It has everything to do with NOT using spanking and instead using
alternatives.

This group is about spanking and challengest to it.

You are stupid.

If
you can provide any data from this study that support your claim that
spanking increased the rate of street entries, I would be truly indebted!

You are stupid.

The study was referred to long ago as an alternative to spanking.

And no, I've told you I am not going to give a source for my comment,
and you are free to discount it.

I want to see you or anyone counter the conclusion of the Embry study
with similar exeriments with spanking.






AFfromDreamLand

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote:


Doan is going to provide us with a report on spanking as a way to teach
children to stay out of traffic that will meet or exceed the finding of
the Safe Play experiment, that reduced the incidence of street entries
by children under five to 10% of baseline entries.

We have lots of time, Doan.

Let us know when you have the data and a report.

Possibly you'd like to use your own children for subjects?

0:-

--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin





--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Hey! Kane tells the truth for a change!

AFfromDreamLand

On Sun, 26 Feb 2006, 0:- wrote: