Bottles past 1 year?

On Jan 9, 1:36�pm, cjra wrote:
This is another cultural question of sorts (since the last one was so
much fun) - DD never liked bottles. It was hell to get her to take one
for daycare, and at 13 months she refused them for good (or so I
thought). But she also refused cow's milk. Not a big deal, she has
enough dairy and still nurses. When she got sick over Thanksgiving,
she wouldn't eat or drink, and shortly after she recovered she was
interested in cow's milk so I gave her some - she will drink it out of
a cup or a bottle, but not a sippy cup. So when out of the house I
give it to her in a bottle. It's the only time she has one, and she's
not attached to it, but it's the only way to give her milk without a
mess, so I'm ok with that (it's kind of ironic given the hassle we had
to get her to take a bottle at 3 months).

We saw her developmental specialist today (18 month check up) and she
made a bit of a fuss about the bottle. I explained the above, she
grudgingly said ok but insisted I really need to get her off of it
(she has one usually only in the am on the way to daycare). �But
what's the big deal about them? I guess I could see if she refused to
drink from a cup, but she happily does that, I'm just not going to
give her a cup in the car, and it gets her to drink cow's milk (which
means less mommy's milk). �And she does use a sippy cup, but only for
water (she won't tolerate anything else in her sippy cup).

However, in Switzerland (and I also noticed this in London and in
France), I've seen kids as old as 3 or �4 with a bottle. They even
have 'toddler formula' (which I tried giving DD but she hated). Our 4
yr old nephew has a bottle before bed (and uses a pacifier), many of
our friends kids drink from a bottle at dinner. I'm fairly sure all
these kids can drink fine from a cup, but they also use a bottle.
Sippy cups are sold, but I don't recall seeing a lot of kids with
them. �Obviously, doctors there are not making a fuss about older kids
with bottles (or all the parents i've seen ignore such advice).

So what's so evil about the ocassional bottle?

Some people just have preconceived notions as to what is proper and
they can't shake them or even fathom that others don't hold the same
opinion. lol. All of my kids had their bottles until close to 2 years
because they used sippy cups for literally sipping and I wanted them
to get their servings of milk in each day. The would take a sip and
set it down and forget about it. They didn't walk around all day with
bottles or pacifiers or anything. I handed them their milk and they
consumed it within 5-10 minutes 3 times a day. We took pacifiers away
around 18 months, and even prior to that they only got it before bed
and spit it out while sleeping, and then waited to do the bottle until
closer to 2. No problems in that respect for us. Don't worry about
what others think about your 18-month-old having either a pacifier or
a bottle. My sister had to deny her children pacifiers because her
husband hated seeing 3- and 4-year-olds with them and he was
convinced, and in turn convinced her, that that was just going to
happen if they got one. As most of us know, that isn't the case for
everyone.

cjra wrote:
[snip]
However, in Switzerland (and I also noticed this in London and in
France), I've seen kids as old as 3 or 4 with a bottle. They even
have 'toddler formula' (which I tried giving DD but she hated). Our 4
[snip]

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on "toddler formula". It's a marketing
tool.

Basically in the UK, and I think the rest of Europe, manufacturers are
not allowed to have special offers or free samples of infant formula -
ie what newborns drink.

So someone came up with the idea of "follow on milk" for older babies.
This is *not* included in the ban on promotion of infant formula: so if
you get a "baby samples pack for 4 months old, it can also include a
free sample of "follow-on milk".

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

On Jan 9, 10:36*am, cjra wrote:

So what's so evil about the ocassional bottle?

Nothing's inherently evil about the occasional bottle, but there are a
couple of problems with prolonged bottle use. One that several people
have mentioned is tooth decay, especially for kids who wander around
all day with a bottle in hand or have one just before bed without
brushing teeth. The other is that prolonged bottle use has been tied
to later obesity, which in the US is clearly a significant problem
right now. It sounds like the way you're using the bottle creates
very little risk of either of those consequences.

What I've noticed with a lot of parents who are reluctant to get their
12-18 month olds off the bottle is that since they drink so much less
from a cup, the parents are afraid that they need the bottle to get
enough fluids. Given the link of bottles with pediatric obesity, my
guess is that they're drinking too much with the bottle (as they've
now transitioned to a solid diet) and are probably doing just fine
with cups/sippys. How necessary is it for her to drink milk in the
car? Generally kids only need 12-16oz (360-480ml) milk a day, and if
she's breastfeeding or eating other dairy then she needs even less.
I've seen a lot more kids who have problems from too much dairy than
from too little.

And yes, to agree with the poster who explained that "toddler formula"
is a pure gimmick to allow formula companies (which I'm not fond of)
to market in places where they're not supposed to market.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 4 years old
and something brewing, 4/08

Akuvikate wrote:

What I've noticed with a lot of parents who are reluctant to get their
12-18 month olds off the bottle is that since they drink so much less
from a cup, the parents are afraid that they need the bottle to get
enough fluids. Given the link of bottles with pediatric obesity, my
guess is that they're drinking too much with the bottle (as they've
now transitioned to a solid diet) and are probably doing just fine
with cups/sippys. How necessary is it for her to drink milk in the
car? Generally kids only need 12-16oz (360-480ml) milk a day, and if
she's breastfeeding or eating other dairy then she needs even less.


She drinks maybe 6-8oz of cow's milk per day (the morning bottle is
about 3-4oz, then she has some in a cup with dinner). She eats loads
of yoghurt and cheese tho. The milk is new, she only started drinking
it about 5 weeks ago. She still nurses at night, tho I've noticed on
the nights she sleeps thru, she's more likely to want the am bottle.
She doesn't take it everyday.

It's not necessary in the car, just that it's usually in the am on the
way to daycare that she wants it.

I'm not at all concerned with obesity at the moment, as she's at the
bottom of the charts and the nutritionist wants us to up the fats in
her diet.

It's interesting tho, as DH and I discussed this tonight. All his
friends' kids in Switzerland and France had bottles well past a year
and as late as 4. Apparently they don't have the same medical advice.

Dd could take or leave the bottle, it's just been convenient in the
morning, and also the last 2 nights as I was in hospital with
emergency surgery, so away from her and no night nursing. She got
bottles of milk (4 oz) at night and in the am and sucked them down
fast.

On Jan 9, 6:58*pm, Anne Rogers wrote:
Neither of them said "You should be weaning", but I had talked about
how over Thanksgiving she went through a round the clock nursing thing
due to being sick, and that we're still trying to go back to 1-2x/day
and that's when she said that I really need to work on getting her off
the breast more. So she may have just been agreeing with me about
cutting back, but by some other things she said, it sounded more like
she was encouraging total weaning.- Hide quoted text -

Surely a more fitting response would be "aren't you glad she was
breastfeeding, you could be sure she was getting nutrition and
hydration as well as helping her get over the illness". You've been
away from home, it's been Christmas, plus 18mths seems to be a fairly
common age to increase nursing without all the other disturbances. If
you want to get back to your old pattern, that's fine, but I don't see
any reason why you "should" get back to that pattern or even less,
unless it's what you want to do. Restricting nursing is a weaning
technique, so you shouldn't be too surprised if your efforts to move
to 1-2x a day turn into complete weaning, but equally some toddlers
will settle on this pattern for a year or more.

The first nurse whom I talked to raved about how great it was I was
still nursing, esp when she was sick, how if I hadn't been how much
harder it would have been, etc.

I just didn't want to get into a big discussion about it right then.
I'd already been there almost 2 hours and wasn't feeling well myself
(it was later that day I ended up in surgery).

I'm not opposed to weaning at this point, honestly. I'm not pushing
it, but I won't be heartbroken if DD weans. Alas, it doesn't look like
that's not happening. Despite not having me around for about 60 hours
(2 nights and 3 days), she was more than happy to nurse on Friday
night when I came home. The problem is now finding a position that is
possible given my incision.

On Jan 10, 8:17�pm, Akuvikate wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:36�am, cjra wrote:



So what's so evil about the ocassional bottle?

Nothing's inherently evil about the occasional bottle, but there are a
couple of problems with prolonged bottle use. �One that several people
have mentioned is tooth decay, especially for kids who wander around
all day with a bottle in hand or have one just before bed without
brushing teeth. �The other is that prolonged bottle use has been tied
to later obesity, which in the US is clearly a significant problem
right now. �It sounds like the way you're using the bottle creates
very little risk of either of those consequences.

What I've noticed with a lot of parents who are reluctant to get their
12-18 month olds off the bottle is that since they drink so much less
from a cup, the parents are afraid that they need the bottle to get
enough fluids. �Given the link of bottles with pediatric obesity, my
guess is that they're drinking too much with the bottle (as they've
now transitioned to a solid diet) and are probably doing just fine
with cups/sippys. �How necessary is it for her to drink milk in the
car? �Generally kids only need 12-16oz (360-480ml) milk a day, and if
she's breastfeeding or eating other dairy then she needs even less.
I've seen a lot more kids who have problems from too much dairy than
from too little.

And yes, to agree with the poster who explained that "toddler formula"
is a pure gimmick to allow formula companies (which I'm not fond of)
to market in places where they're not supposed to market.

Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel
and the Bug, 4 years old
and something brewing, 4/08

I don't buy into the relationship with obesity later. There are many
more realistic reasons as to why obesity is an epidemic.....two
working parents who have fallen prey to convenience foods with no time
to cook from scratch on weekdays any longer, children whose parents
are too scared to let them outside to run free due to the perceived
danger/threats compared to yesteryear, video games, TV, etc. All of my
kids have had their bottles 'til 2 and my older 2 are skinny minnies,
in adjustable-waist pants or slims, and I dare predict they'll never
have a weight problem - genetics of the game. None of them had any
issues with having it taken away either because it was never a comfort
item or an item they held onto regularly. they were also given sippy
cups at intervals throughout the day to practice with on a regular
basis at meals. My last baby loved sports cap water bottles to drink
his water out of and straw thermos-type water bottles we found. They
leak, so I just never filled the container up enough to where it would
leak if left on its side. If left directly upside down though it
would. Three bottles a day offered up at 10-minute intervals each
still wouldn't contribute to dental malformation either - that is
largely genetics as well.

cjra wrote:
Akuvikate wrote:

What I've noticed with a lot of parents who are reluctant to get
their 12-18 month olds off the bottle is that since they drink so
much less from a cup, the parents are afraid that they need the
bottle to get enough fluids. Given the link of bottles with
pediatric obesity, my guess is that they're drinking too much with
the bottle (as they've now transitioned to a solid diet) and are
probably doing just fine with cups/sippys. How necessary is it for
her to drink milk in the car? Generally kids only need 12-16oz
(360-480ml) milk a day, and if she's breastfeeding or eating other
dairy then she needs even less.


She drinks maybe 6-8oz of cow's milk per day (the morning bottle is
about 3-4oz, then she has some in a cup with dinner). She eats loads
of yoghurt and cheese tho. The milk is new, she only started drinking
it about 5 weeks ago. She still nurses at night, tho I've noticed on
the nights she sleeps thru, she's more likely to want the am bottle.
She doesn't take it everyday.

It's not necessary in the car, just that it's usually in the am on the
way to daycare that she wants it.

I'm not at all concerned with obesity at the moment, as she's at the
bottom of the charts and the nutritionist wants us to up the fats in
her diet.

It's interesting tho, as DH and I discussed this tonight. All his
friends' kids in Switzerland and France had bottles well past a year
and as late as 4. Apparently they don't have the same medical advice.

Dd could take or leave the bottle, it's just been convenient in the
morning, and also the last 2 nights as I was in hospital with
emergency surgery, so away from her and no night nursing. She got
bottles of milk (4 oz) at night and in the am and sucked them down
fast.

I hope you are recovering well from your surgery and are not in pain, that
sounds scary!

I think there are two facets to extended bottle or breast feeding. One is
the nutrition they receive and the other is the comfort. I had enormous
babies who fined down to petite or just light-for-height kids and I nursed
each of them as long as possible then gave them formula and/or cows milk for
some time after that.

My youngest child received a full bottles of cow's milk on rising and before
bed up until he was almost four and consumed 400 - 500 ml per day for at
least the last 2 years, more when he took a bottle before his afternoon nap
up until he was 3 years old. If I'd been able to nurse him that long I would
have but bottles served the same purpose. Abandoning bottles meant he no
longer wanted milk so he gets most of his calcium from yoghurt and cheese
these days.

None of my children have had dental caries and I put that down to good
dental hygiene and fluoridated water. They all have a BMI of 20 or less and
they all eat a variety of foods. While they got so much of their nutritional
needs from milk or formula their other food intakes were less but once
weaned they each gradually increased their variety and quantities of new
foods. Now they eat more variety of food types than most of their peers,
which is a source of some amusement for my teenagers.

I buy 4% whole milk for the household because the only person who needs to
watch her fat intake is me and I drink very little milk. I really don't see
a problem with that when the child's diet is healthy and based on natural,
unprocessed foods anyway.

Trust your instincts and let your daughter wean herself from you and her
bottles when she's ready.

enigma wrote:
[...]
some people think that
sucking on a nipple or pacifier past a certain age (which
varies quite a bit) will makes the teeth crooked, but that's
fairly unsubstantiated.

Really? I've recently been looking this up on Pubmed as our dentist has
advised us to get rid of the dummy (pacifier) now that my son is three,
and I certainly seem to be finding several studies linking prolonged
pacifier use with certain teeth malformations. Of course, I only have
the abstracts of the studies plus I'm not a dentist, so it's hard for me
to spot possible flaws in them. If you know of anything substantial to
say that all the research in this area is so flawed I can safely ignore
it, please do tell me - I'd love to hear that, because I'm finding this
a real dilemma at the moment (he is clearly not ready to give up his
dummy without a big fight, and it would be marvellous to find out that
that isn't necessary after all!)


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

"Sarah Vaughan" wrote in message
...
enigma wrote:
[...]
some people think that sucking on a nipple or pacifier past a certain age
(which varies quite a bit) will makes the teeth crooked, but that's
fairly unsubstantiated.

Really? I've recently been looking this up on Pubmed as our dentist has
advised us to get rid of the dummy (pacifier) now that my son is three,
and I certainly seem to be finding several studies linking prolonged
pacifier use with certain teeth malformations. Of course, I only have the
abstracts of the studies plus I'm not a dentist, so it's hard for me to
spot possible flaws in them. If you know of anything substantial to say
that all the research in this area is so flawed I can safely ignore it,
please do tell me - I'd love to hear that, because I'm finding this a real
dilemma at the moment (he is clearly not ready to give up his dummy
without a big fight, and it would be marvellous to find out that that
isn't necessary after all!)


Have you thought about him using the dummy to "pay" for something he really
wants. I have a friend who would have said the same as you when her child
was 3 (nearly 4 and an August baby, so was within a few months of starting
school). She wanted a watch and the very nice lady in argos played along,
taking the dummy as "payment". The child only once asked for it, was poited
ut that she had a watch and never mentioned it again as far as I know. It
was much easier than she thought it would be.
He's old enough that he could make that decision if you give it.
Debbie

Sarah Vaughan wrote in
:

enigma wrote:
[...]
some people think that
sucking on a nipple or pacifier past a certain age (which
varies quite a bit) will makes the teeth crooked, but
that's fairly unsubstantiated.

Really? I've recently been looking this up on Pubmed as
our dentist has advised us to get rid of the dummy
(pacifier) now that my son is three, and I certainly seem
to be finding several studies linking prolonged pacifier
use with certain teeth malformations. Of course, I only
have the abstracts of the studies plus I'm not a dentist,
so it's hard for me to spot possible flaws in them. If you
know of anything substantial to say that all the research
in this area is so flawed I can safely ignore it, please do
tell me - I'd love to hear that, because I'm finding this
a real dilemma at the moment (he is clearly not ready to
give up his dummy without a big fight, and it would be
marvellous to find out that that isn't necessary after
all!)

is he actually sucking on it or does he just hold it in his
mouth? that makes a difference.

i sucked my thumb until i was 11-12 years old (at night. i'd
wake up with it in my mouth. it wasn't a conscious thing) & i
have what my dentist calls "perfect bite", but i wasn't
actually *sucking* on my thumb. it was just in my mouth.
i remember when i was 4 my mother was told i'd ruin my teeth
& she got very naggy & tried all kinds of things to make me
stop. i'm pretty sure this is where i developed my taste for
Tabasco sauce...
anyway, the more pressure to stop, the more likely the child
is to resist stopping. so, i'd advise *no nagging* and try not
to even mention it. just don't make keeping track of the
pacifier your job. make it his. if he loses it, oh well. don't
get him another. but don't just take it away either. some kids
really need the comfort longer than others.
lee