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#21
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Michelle J. Haines wrote:
toypup wrote: I do think it facilitates community and communication overall. I think its existence makes people feel like a community. It doesn't shut any single person out who wants to be a part of that community but not on the list. It makes the school as a whole feel like a community. I don't think so at all. In spite of the fact that my son's teacher put out this list, I've only met the other parents on it incidentally and on occasion. Oh, I see, you haven't any interest in meeting them? Is that typical of you all or do some like to form connections with the other parents? My daughter's fifth grade teacher put out NO such list (the closest he came was sending home a tree-calling list the night before a major field trip that looked like it may be canceled for weather, with kids' names and phone numbers only), and I have spent much more time with those parents. Largely because of my daughter's involvement in basketball. Right, we all tend to spend the most time with those parents whose company we enjoy or who we come into contact with directly through the mutual interests of our children. For example, in my sons school currently there is a Dad's group that is comprised primarily of fathers of grade 5 and 6 children. It was started years ago when some of the fathers found they had common interests and made a choice to get together regularly for socialising. They organise family camping trips as well. However, that's been unique in my 13 years of association with the school and not something we'd have been particularly interested in joining, ourselves, through my husband. It is usual for one or two parents to host eveing get-togethers during the year just for the parents in the year level and those are always well-attended, the culture of our particular school seems to be to want to form at least friendly acquaintainceships with the other parents. We have a common interest in the welfare of our children's school and a good proportion of parents are active in helping out in various tangible ways which means they do come into contact regularly. |
#22
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Banty wrote:
In article , Tai says... Banty wrote: I'm not arguing that having a list makes for *better* communication, their absense doesn't get in the way of the truly personal communication. It just facilitates the facile contact (like chasing after RSVP's) and opens people up to who-knows-what. There you go again using loaded words. "Facile" - who are you to judge? Facile = easy. And all of this has been about ease of contact. The context you use it in is with words terms like "cattle call" as if ease of contact is a bad thing. You have stated many times that the lists make it too easy for parents to contact each other as if that's a bad thing in itself. Just as you constantly let us know you think a large gathering of children for a party is somehow a terrible idea and unnecessary. Mind you, I don't recall you using the abominable word "grubfest" to describe children's parties so I hope you don't share the contempt for the play of children that indicates. Btw, every time you use the term"cattle call" you expose yourself as a shocker of a snob! You can't say lists facilitate community and communication, AND say that those who opt off or transfer in later aren't losing out. So which is it? And what do you even mean by "close-knit". So I don't think dropping kids off at a mega party a community makes. Oh now you're just being plain silly. The lists are re-issued when new children transfer in. Of course. They are?? For each new transfer-in? Who DOES all this work? The class reps, of course. The lists are issued on a year-level basis and it doesn't take long to add a name (and take off any that are no longer current) and distribute them. You distribute a newsletter yourself, don't you? The amount of work involved in mantaining a contact list during the year is minimal by comparison. Besides, our school hardly needs a revolving door to cater for the changes in the student body enrolment. You seem to have a real problem in understanding that every school is different and each develops its own customs based on the needs of families involved. You get together with your fellow-parents and school administration and run yours how you'd like it, but leave ours alone, please. |
#23
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toypup wrote:
"Banty" wrote in message ... You're really stuck on these invite-in-all-the-cubbies class parties. The lists have *addresses* and phone numbers for party invitations. Ours only have phone numbers. I would not put addresses on it if they asked. That's just me. I wouldn't get upset over anyone else sharing that info. Those people would just be more risk-tolerant than I. Like you could with your info, I'd opt-out of sharing my address. Most people around here are listed in the phone book so there wouldn't be much point in leaving off their address but it's certainly not mandatory have any individual piece of contact information. Not all parties are the invite all, you know. Really, this is all about you wanting to chase rude non-RSVPers? I don't think so. Exactly, if it's not the invite everyone party, they will invite whomever they want. If who they want is not on the list, they will find a way to invite that kid, probably via cubby or backpack. If it's the invite all party, you get the invite no matter what. No matter what, big party, little party, whatever, your kid gets invited. The list doesn't affect who gets invited. Exactly. |
#24
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Banty wrote:
[snip] In that case it wasn't an apparent problem. Neither was it an apparent benefit. It was, however, an *exposure*. Someone *may have* used the info for something like a commercial mass-mailing later. (Who knows, maybe the time I was chased for an RSVP is was from a list from way back in Montessori - I never did get around to asking her how she knew my number.) Someone with an organizing bent [snip] I've kept all these types of lists I've had through the years, until the point when most of the people I might want to get in touch with have moved. So I've probably got some going back six or seven years, possibly longer. (For those worried about privacy, they are tucked away with my address book, not on the fridge. But I also kept the one in the sealed envelope, which we were only supposed to open if it was actually needed: I haven't made use of that one.) -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#25
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Banty wrote:
[snip] The only sales parties I've been invited to of late have been from personal invites, and people I know well enough that it's reasonable. But, yeah, there's a lot of people out there who don't seem to have any sense of propriety, and *would* use a class roster for something like that. "Hey, it's capitalism - the American way", they think (I've heard that said about stuff like that). [snip] We got a phone call from someon doing some kind of market research, wanting families with children of our son's sort of age. At the time, I assumed they'd be given our phone number by someone I knew, but it is more likely that they used a roster that had been out. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#26
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toypup wrote:
Do you think the existence of the list contribute to the lack of communication amongst the parents? Is the list for your son's class used in lieu of other methods of contact? Is anyone on the outs because they are not on the list? In your experience, do you feel the absence or existence of a list has an effect on parent communication and the sense of community or do you think that neither option affects it at all? Well. At the beginning of the year, the teacher also informed us we would be assigned to plan a party (we could indicate our first and second preference), and it was our responsibility to contact the other parents we were assigned with to properly plan it. As I promptly informed the teacher that she was entirely capable of planning her own parties, and if she needed my help on field trips, I would be more than willing to chaperone, but I had no wish to plan parties, I wouldn't be, no one has ever called me on that list for anything at all. So no, I don't think they facilitate the sense of community you say they do. Michelle Flutist |
#27
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Tai wrote:
Oh, I see, you haven't any interest in meeting them? Is that typical of you all or do some like to form connections with the other parents? Wow, that's...judgmental. First, I haven't had a lot of -time- this year. Second, the students at this school are spread all over the southern half of an extremely rural county. It takes some of them an hour and a half to get to school on the bus in the morning. Random get togethers aren't always that easy. It is usual for one or two parents to host eveing get-togethers during the year just for the parents in the year level and those are always well-attended, the culture of our particular school seems to be to want to form at least friendly acquaintainceships with the other parents. We have a common interest in the welfare of our children's school and a good proportion of parents are active in helping out in various tangible ways which means they do come into contact regularly. The parents help out quite a lot. But whether or not they come into contact in their daily lives is another story. I probably socialize less than a lot of the parents, because I've had a tremendous amount of demand placed on my own time lately. Also, in the town in which I live, there are about 25 people. And six children, four of which are mine. Michelle Flutist |
#28
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Michelle J. Haines wrote:
Tai wrote: Oh, I see, you haven't any interest in meeting them? Is that typical of you all or do some like to form connections with the other parents? Wow, that's...judgmental. Oh, no! I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I think there's anything wrong with that, I was trying to work out what your needs were as far as contact with other school parents was concerned. There are a lot of reasons why (generic) you mightn't - too busy, too far away or just plain not interested, which is fine anyway. It's just that our contact needs _will_ determine how we view things like lists, rosters, extra-curricular socialising and being cold-called to volunteer our help etc. First, I haven't had a lot of -time- this year. Second, the students at this school are spread all over the southern half of an extremely rural county. It takes some of them an hour and a half to get to school on the bus in the morning. Random get togethers aren't always that easy. I see, yes, that would make it difficult. It is usual for one or two parents to host eveing get-togethers during the year just for the parents in the year level and those are always well-attended, the culture of our particular school seems to be to want to form at least friendly acquaintainceships with the other parents. We have a common interest in the welfare of our children's school and a good proportion of parents are active in helping out in various tangible ways which means they do come into contact regularly. The parents help out quite a lot. But whether or not they come into contact in their daily lives is another story. I probably socialize less than a lot of the parents, because I've had a tremendous amount of demand placed on my own time lately. Also, in the town in which I live, there are about 25 people. And six children, four of which are mine. Well, sure, and I hope you didn't feel you had to defend yourself. I only do as much for and with my children's schools as I want to and I typically want to do considerably less than I actually could do. (Or end up doing.) I did write this as well, "...we all tend to spend the most time with those parents whose company we enjoy or who we come into contact with directly through the mutual interests of our children" and that was in direct reference to your basketball activities for your daughter. I admit I have been a little shocked by the derisory terms used by some people in here with respect to what they think of big parties (grubfests), guest lists (cattle calls) and parent volunteers (Suzy Volunteer). That last one really caught my attention because the term I am familiar with is "Suzy Homemaker" and that is such a contemptuous term. "Suzy Volunteer" seems just as uncalled for, to me, and would be judged as being very offensive if used to a woman's face here. The tone from some has been that for some posters the busy, chatty, social types are somehow to be despised and I think that's very unfair. |
#29
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In article , toypup says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... You're really stuck on these invite-in-all-the-cubbies class parties. The lists have *addresses* and phone numbers for party invitations. Ours only have phone numbers. I would not put addresses on it if they asked. That's just me. I wouldn't get upset over anyone else sharing that info. Those people would just be more risk-tolerant than I. Like you could with your info, I'd opt-out of sharing my address. Not all parties are the invite all, you know. Really, this is all about you wanting to chase rude non-RSVPers? I don't think so. Exactly, if it's not the invite everyone party, they will invite whomever they want. If who they want is not on the list, they will find a way to invite that kid, probably via cubby or backpack. If it's the invite all party, you get the invite no matter what. No matter what, big party, little party, whatever, your kid gets invited. The list doesn't affect who gets invited. OK so you're saying that, on one hand, a roster list is essential to get to know who some of the parents are and because it's too burdensome to get notes to individual families and write out invitations from the returns. THEN, you're saying that any family that opts out won't be affected because they'll (individually and as an exception) be invited because anyone else will go through the same efforts you find so burdensome a roster list is needed. Uh huh. Not only is this contradictory, but, given an apparently complete roster, very many people who would otherwise be happy to go to some effort to put together their own party list will not go beyond that. Look, we're going around in circles. You and Tai will very simply NOT acknowledge what the concerns are; you're even contradicting yourself in trying to address them. Just admit it - you LIKE the rosters, you'd have them whatever others' concerns are. Good thing you have a teacher or administration that's wiser than you. Banty |
#30
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In article , Tai says...
I admit I have been a little shocked by the derisory terms used by some people in here with respect to what they think of big parties (grubfests), guest lists (cattle calls) and parent volunteers (Suzy Volunteer). That last one really caught my attention because the term I am familiar with is "Suzy Homemaker" and that is such a contemptuous term. "Suzy Volunteer" seems just as uncalled for, to me, and would be judged as being very offensive if used to a woman's face here. The tone from some has been that for some posters the busy, chatty, social types are somehow to be despised and I think that's very unfair. I said "Suzy Volunteer". Ericka said the 'grubfest' and 'cattle call'. I and I'm pretty sure Ericka aren't referring to *any* volunteer (goodness knows I've been a volunteer most of my life, like for Scouts and two volunteer Ambulance Corps!) or any large party. We're referring to *excesses*. There have been threads in the past regarding how the large birthday parties *can* (not always do - *can*) get. And how they seem to be de riguer as kids' expectations are built up by the celebrations they go to. And if you haven't met the over-zealous parent volunteer, you're quite lucky. Banty |
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