If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school
anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. Having observed at various times the 3-4 children in her form that are least able to concentrate seem to get more than half the visible rewards going at any time, this does seem to be disproportionate, but I can sympathise with the teachers who have to keep them going. The school is very non-competative, and don't seem to reward achievement either academically, sporting, or other although they're good at recognising effort. I like the awarding for effort, but sometimes #1 is confused by this and thinks she must have done something badly because others got commended and she didn't or thinks she must be really good at something that she isn't, but gets rewarded because she tries. Last year I overheard her discussing with friends whether it was worth being "naughty" one day to get "star of the day". Luckily they decided it wasn't worth being told off back then, but I'm not sure she's going to keep that decision up if this continues. (I susequently noticed that the "star of the day" was basically awarded to the same 3 children every week, and maybe another if they remembered to do it on another day) #1 has commented that the rewards are not done on an equal scale, which she seems to find a bit confusing (she commented one time that her teacher had said that 2 stories in the class were "superb" and one subsequently got a head teacher's certificate for it and the other didn't. She thought the head teacher must have forgotten the other child) and I have discussed with her about finding different things hard and trying hard being important. I think this is an issue with at least one other girl in her class too, from speaking to her parent. I'm wondering how other schools deal with this problem, as I can't think of a realisitc way round this where all are going to be motivated and feel rewarded. The ones who really seem to miss out from my observation are those who are quiet, obedient, and middle of the class in achievements, they seem to get very, very few rewards at all. Debbie |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
Welches wrote:
I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. We had this at playgroup with my youngest (the others went to a different playgroup, where almost all children got a sticker every day.) We got round it by addressing a specific difficulty she had, and giving her stickers for that. Having observed at various times the 3-4 children in her form that are least able to concentrate seem to get more than half the visible rewards going at any time, this does seem to be disproportionate, but I can sympathise with the teachers who have to keep them going. The school is very non-competative, and don't seem to reward achievement either academically, sporting, or other although they're good at recognising effort. I like the awarding for effort, but sometimes #1 is confused by this and thinks she must have done something badly because others got commended and she didn't or thinks she must be really good at something that she isn't, but gets rewarded because she tries. The difficulty with not rewarding academic results is that doing well academically is not necessarily obvious to the child. Sporting achievements are obvious, because you can see the other kids doing stuff, but you don't necessarily see that another child is getting crosses against most (or some!) of their maths answers . [snip] I'm wondering how other schools deal with this problem, as I can't think of a realisitc way round this where all are going to be motivated and feel rewarded. The ones who really seem to miss out from my observation are those who are quiet, obedient, and middle of the class in achievements, they seem to get very, very few rewards at all. Our primary school is also non-competative (actually we have a new head who might be about to change things). They have two different mechanisms. The first is housepoints: if you do something well, you get a housepoint, and at the end of the term these are added up and the house cup is awarded. When a specific child gets a certain number of points (I think its 10), they get a certificate in assembly. The other method is star of the week, awarded by the headteacher. These seem to be fair: or at least, my children have been getting them about once a term, which is what you'd expect if they were evenly distributed. Maybe one other child is getting it whenever they don't. I'm not quite sure what you can do as a parent, except possibly bring it to the teacher's notice. I suppose you could bring it up with the governors (for non-UK posters, these could be thought of as the school board), but it would need to be changed from within the school. Anyway, you have my sympathies, but beyond changing school, I'm not quite sure what you could do about it. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
In article , Welches says...
I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. Having observed at various times the 3-4 children in her form that are least able to concentrate seem to get more than half the visible rewards going at any time, this does seem to be disproportionate, but I can sympathise with the teachers who have to keep them going. The school is very non-competative, and don't seem to reward achievement either academically, sporting, or other although they're good at recognising effort. I like the awarding for effort, but sometimes #1 is confused by this and thinks she must have done something badly because others got commended and she didn't or thinks she must be really good at something that she isn't, but gets rewarded because she tries. Last year I overheard her discussing with friends whether it was worth being "naughty" one day to get "star of the day". Luckily they decided it wasn't worth being told off back then, but I'm not sure she's going to keep that decision up if this continues. (I susequently noticed that the "star of the day" was basically awarded to the same 3 children every week, and maybe another if they remembered to do it on another day) #1 has commented that the rewards are not done on an equal scale, which she seems to find a bit confusing (she commented one time that her teacher had said that 2 stories in the class were "superb" and one subsequently got a head teacher's certificate for it and the other didn't. She thought the head teacher must have forgotten the other child) and I have discussed with her about finding different things hard and trying hard being important. I think this is an issue with at least one other girl in her class too, from speaking to her parent. I'm wondering how other schools deal with this problem, as I can't think of a realisitc way round this where all are going to be motivated and feel rewarded. The ones who really seem to miss out from my observation are those who are quiet, obedient, and middle of the class in achievements, they seem to get very, very few rewards at all. This is slow-drip torture for a bright kid, and the road to cynicism. She's already gotten cynical. Are there other educational opportunities around for her? Banty |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
On Dec 6, 6:35 am, "Welches"
wrote: I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. Having observed at various times the 3-4 children in her form that are least able to concentrate seem to get more than half the visible rewards going at any time, this does seem to be disproportionate, but I can sympathise with the teachers who have to keep them going. The school is very non-competative, and don't seem to reward achievement either academically, sporting, or other although they're good at recognising effort. I like the awarding for effort, but sometimes #1 is confused by this and thinks she must have done something badly because others got commended and she didn't or thinks she must be really good at something that she isn't, but gets rewarded because she tries. Doesn't the school have letter grades based on academic achievement, and aren't good grades rewarding for your girl? Regarding "rewarding for effort", if exactly the same material is taught to all children, more intelligent children will master the material with less effort. They should not be punished for that but instead be given more challenging material. What is the procedure in your school for determining whether a child should skip a grade? I think should consider it. Last year I overheard her discussing with friends whether it was worth being "naughty" one day to get "star of the day". Luckily they decided it wasn't worth being told off back then, but I'm not sure she's going to keep that decision up if this continues. (I susequently noticed that the "star of the day" was basically awarded to the same 3 children every week, and maybe another if they remembered to do it on another day) #1 has commented that the rewards are not done on an equal scale, which she seems to find a bit confusing (she commented one time that her teacher had said that 2 stories in the class were "superb" and one subsequently got a head teacher's certificate for it and the other didn't. She thought the head teacher must have forgotten the other child) and I have discussed with her about finding different things hard and trying hard being important. I think this is an issue with at least one other girl in her class too, from speaking to her parent. I'm wondering how other schools deal with this problem, as I can't think of a realisitc way round this where all are going to be motivated and feel rewarded. The ones who really seem to miss out from my observation are those who are quiet, obedient, and middle of the class in achievements, they seem to get very, very few rewards at all. If students are grouped by ability, the students in the middle in each class are not so far behind the brightest as when heteregenous grouping is used, and trying to be the best in their class will seem more realistic to them. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
"Penny Gaines" wrote in message ... Welches wrote: I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. We had this at playgroup with my youngest (the others went to a different playgroup, where almost all children got a sticker every day.) We got round it by addressing a specific difficulty she had, and giving her stickers for that. Having observed at various times the 3-4 children in her form that are least able to concentrate seem to get more than half the visible rewards going at any time, this does seem to be disproportionate, but I can sympathise with the teachers who have to keep them going. The school is very non-competative, and don't seem to reward achievement either academically, sporting, or other although they're good at recognising effort. I like the awarding for effort, but sometimes #1 is confused by this and thinks she must have done something badly because others got commended and she didn't or thinks she must be really good at something that she isn't, but gets rewarded because she tries. The difficulty with not rewarding academic results is that doing well academically is not necessarily obvious to the child. Sporting achievements are obvious, because you can see the other kids doing stuff, but you don't necessarily see that another child is getting crosses against most (or some!) of their maths answers . [snip] I'm wondering how other schools deal with this problem, as I can't think of a realisitc way round this where all are going to be motivated and feel rewarded. The ones who really seem to miss out from my observation are those who are quiet, obedient, and middle of the class in achievements, they seem to get very, very few rewards at all. Our primary school is also non-competative (actually we have a new head who might be about to change things). They have two different mechanisms. The first is housepoints: if you do something well, you get a housepoint, and at the end of the term these are added up and the house cup is awarded. When a specific child gets a certain number of points (I think its 10), they get a certificate in assembly. The other method is star of the week, awarded by the headteacher. These seem to be fair: or at least, my children have been getting them about once a term, which is what you'd expect if they were evenly distributed. Maybe one other child is getting it whenever they don't. I'm not quite sure what you can do as a parent, except possibly bring it to the teacher's notice. I suppose you could bring it up with the governors (for non-UK posters, these could be thought of as the school board), but it would need to be changed from within the school. Anyway, you have my sympathies, but beyond changing school, I'm not quite sure what you could do about it. -- She leaves at the end of the year, for junior school, so I don't think I'd bring it up unless it was raised. As for the governors-I might speak to dh about it, but I don't think it is in their present remit. :-) They are (as I've gradually realised) very committed to non-competitiveness. They even have a non-competitive sports day which, as a child whose aim was not to come last, I think is unfair on those who are good. No house points, no competitive things in any way. I think the hm is afraid of being called on favouritism so they make sure no one shines too brightly. (and I'm not specifically thinking of my child as I say that!) It is generally a very good school, and we're lucky to get in-they were oversubscribed by at least 50% last year, and this is really a minor niggle. But I feel it must be pretty obvious for her and others to have noticed at their age. Debbie |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Welches says... I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. Having observed at various times the 3-4 children in her form that are least able to concentrate seem to get more than half the visible rewards going at any time, this does seem to be disproportionate, but I can sympathise with the teachers who have to keep them going. The school is very non-competative, and don't seem to reward achievement either academically, sporting, or other although they're good at recognising effort. I like the awarding for effort, but sometimes #1 is confused by this and thinks she must have done something badly because others got commended and she didn't or thinks she must be really good at something that she isn't, but gets rewarded because she tries. Last year I overheard her discussing with friends whether it was worth being "naughty" one day to get "star of the day". Luckily they decided it wasn't worth being told off back then, but I'm not sure she's going to keep that decision up if this continues. (I susequently noticed that the "star of the day" was basically awarded to the same 3 children every week, and maybe another if they remembered to do it on another day) #1 has commented that the rewards are not done on an equal scale, which she seems to find a bit confusing (she commented one time that her teacher had said that 2 stories in the class were "superb" and one subsequently got a head teacher's certificate for it and the other didn't. She thought the head teacher must have forgotten the other child) and I have discussed with her about finding different things hard and trying hard being important. I think this is an issue with at least one other girl in her class too, from speaking to her parent. I'm wondering how other schools deal with this problem, as I can't think of a realisitc way round this where all are going to be motivated and feel rewarded. The ones who really seem to miss out from my observation are those who are quiet, obedient, and middle of the class in achievements, they seem to get very, very few rewards at all. This is slow-drip torture for a bright kid, and the road to cynicism. She's already gotten cynical. Are there other educational opportunities around for her? No! Unless someone wishes to send us about £10K a year for school fees! (or we win the lottery) and someone can persuade dh that the road to hell isn't lines with private schools. Debbie Ps before anyone suggests, homeschooling would not be a good option for her |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
On Dec 6, 7:03 am, Penny Gaines wrote:
Welches wrote: I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. We had this at playgroup with my youngest (the others went to a different playgroup, where almost all children got a sticker every day.) We got round it by addressing a specific difficulty she had, and giving her stickers for that. Having observed at various times the 3-4 children in her form that are least able to concentrate seem to get more than half the visible rewards going at any time, this does seem to be disproportionate, but I can sympathise with the teachers who have to keep them going. The school is very non-competative, and don't seem to reward achievement either academically, sporting, or other although they're good at recognising effort. I like the awarding for effort, but sometimes #1 is confused by this and thinks she must have done something badly because others got commended and she didn't or thinks she must be really good at something that she isn't, but gets rewarded because she tries. The difficulty with not rewarding academic results is that doing well academically is not necessarily obvious to the child. Sporting achievements are obvious, because you can see the other kids doing stuff, but you don't necessarily see that another child is getting crosses against most (or some!) of their maths answers . My wife tells me that in Indian schools, class ranks based on exams are kept from the earliest grades, and such ranks appear on the report cards sent to parents. Academic rank can be made just as clear as athletic rank if the school wants that. As a parent I think I would, although I would also want to know how my kids do on standardized achievment tests given to students throughout the state (and ideally throughout the country). Changing the subject, in the U.S., the federal No Child Left Behind law, which punishes schools for poor performance of students on standardized tests (either overall or for students from certain ethnic groups) is up for renewal. I don't think the federal government should mandate "solutions", such as closing down failing schools, but I do think national tests should be given with individual results reported to parents and school results to the general public. Currently, states get to define "proficiency", and not surprisingly, many set the bar low. Education expert Diane Ravitch has discussed this. Get Congress Out of the Classroom New York Times, October 3, 2007 http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/03/op...03ravitch.html |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
"Beliavsky" wrote in message ... On Dec 6, 6:35 am, "Welches" wrote: I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. Having observed at various times the 3-4 children in her form that are least able to concentrate seem to get more than half the visible rewards going at any time, this does seem to be disproportionate, but I can sympathise with the teachers who have to keep them going. The school is very non-competative, and don't seem to reward achievement either academically, sporting, or other although they're good at recognising effort. I like the awarding for effort, but sometimes #1 is confused by this and thinks she must have done something badly because others got commended and she didn't or thinks she must be really good at something that she isn't, but gets rewarded because she tries. Doesn't the school have letter grades based on academic achievement, and aren't good grades rewarding for your girl? Regarding "rewarding for effort", if exactly the same material is taught to all children, more intelligent children will master the material with less effort. They should not be punished for that but instead be given more challenging material. What is the procedure in your school for determining whether a child should skip a grade? I think should consider it. We're in the UK. It is exceedingly unusual to not be in your own year in the state system, and fairly unusual in the private sector. Also she is immature socially, and I think that would cause its own problems. They don't give marks or grades, which is standard at that age in the UK. Yes, I think if they gave marks then it would be enough to get a good mark as she's very much a mark hunter in things she does at home. They might get "good" written at the bottom of something, but that means "good for your usual standard" and she has picked this up. Last year I overheard her discussing with friends whether it was worth being "naughty" one day to get "star of the day". Luckily they decided it wasn't worth being told off back then, but I'm not sure she's going to keep that decision up if this continues. (I susequently noticed that the "star of the day" was basically awarded to the same 3 children every week, and maybe another if they remembered to do it on another day) #1 has commented that the rewards are not done on an equal scale, which she seems to find a bit confusing (she commented one time that her teacher had said that 2 stories in the class were "superb" and one subsequently got a head teacher's certificate for it and the other didn't. She thought the head teacher must have forgotten the other child) and I have discussed with her about finding different things hard and trying hard being important. I think this is an issue with at least one other girl in her class too, from speaking to her parent. I'm wondering how other schools deal with this problem, as I can't think of a realisitc way round this where all are going to be motivated and feel rewarded. The ones who really seem to miss out from my observation are those who are quiet, obedient, and middle of the class in achievements, they seem to get very, very few rewards at all. If students are grouped by ability, the students in the middle in each class are not so far behind the brightest as when heteregenous grouping is used, and trying to be the best in their class will seem more realistic to them. They are in a mixed ability class. In this class they are split into 6 equal groups in ability order in maths, and a different group for english/reading. Sometimes they do the same work, other times they do different levels of the same idea. Debbie |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
In article , Welches says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Welches says... I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. Having observed at various times the 3-4 children in her form that are least able to concentrate seem to get more than half the visible rewards going at any time, this does seem to be disproportionate, but I can sympathise with the teachers who have to keep them going. The school is very non-competative, and don't seem to reward achievement either academically, sporting, or other although they're good at recognising effort. I like the awarding for effort, but sometimes #1 is confused by this and thinks she must have done something badly because others got commended and she didn't or thinks she must be really good at something that she isn't, but gets rewarded because she tries. Last year I overheard her discussing with friends whether it was worth being "naughty" one day to get "star of the day". Luckily they decided it wasn't worth being told off back then, but I'm not sure she's going to keep that decision up if this continues. (I susequently noticed that the "star of the day" was basically awarded to the same 3 children every week, and maybe another if they remembered to do it on another day) #1 has commented that the rewards are not done on an equal scale, which she seems to find a bit confusing (she commented one time that her teacher had said that 2 stories in the class were "superb" and one subsequently got a head teacher's certificate for it and the other didn't. She thought the head teacher must have forgotten the other child) and I have discussed with her about finding different things hard and trying hard being important. I think this is an issue with at least one other girl in her class too, from speaking to her parent. I'm wondering how other schools deal with this problem, as I can't think of a realisitc way round this where all are going to be motivated and feel rewarded. The ones who really seem to miss out from my observation are those who are quiet, obedient, and middle of the class in achievements, they seem to get very, very few rewards at all. This is slow-drip torture for a bright kid, and the road to cynicism. She's already gotten cynical. Are there other educational opportunities around for her? No! Unless someone wishes to send us about £10K a year for school fees! (or we win the lottery) and someone can persuade dh that the road to hell isn't lines with private schools. Debbie Ps before anyone suggests, homeschooling would not be a good option for her Hopefully things may change in the junior high school next year. But this kind of thing is murder. Perhaps you can reinforce at home that her academic abilities are very valued, and that, in the outside world, her strong skills *will* be rewarded. And seek whatever other programs you can for her (camp, scouts, etc., along that line). Banty |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Rewarding good or "not bad"
Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 6, 6:35 am, "Welches" wrote: I'm coming from the view of #1, who sits still, listens and obeys (at school anyway!!) and is at the top end of her form. Her teacher commented that she "coasts" the academic side, and still is at the top. Certainly she produces much better work at home than she does at school. At various times she has commented that you get more rewards at school by being "not bad" than being always good. It's been comment before but I'm beginning to sense a frustration, as often these other children are getting rewards frequently that she would like to have occasionally. [snip] Doesn't the school have letter grades based on academic achievement, and aren't good grades rewarding for your girl? Regarding "rewarding for effort", if exactly the same material is taught to all children, more intelligent children will master the material with less effort. They should not be punished for that but instead be given more challenging material. What is the procedure in your school for determining whether a child should skip a grade? I think should consider it. IME, in the UK (where Welches is) schools don't tend to use letter-type grades until the children are about 11yo and at secondary school. Even then, they don't have the same importance over here as in some other countries. I don't think that having more challanging work would help either. Her daughter would still not be getting the stickers or whatever the children are getting. [snip] I'm wondering how other schools deal with this problem, as I can't think of a realisitc way round this where all are going to be motivated and feel rewarded. The ones who really seem to miss out from my observation are those who are quiet, obedient, and middle of the class in achievements, they seem to get very, very few rewards at all. If students are grouped by ability, the students in the middle in each class are not so far behind the brightest as when heteregenous grouping is used, and trying to be the best in their class will seem more realistic to them. But that is not solving the problem. The children are not getting rewards for being "the best in their class". The children who are getting rewards are the children who are "the worst in the class" when they behave at the required standard. The children who normally behave at the required standard aren't getting rewarded for it. Being the best only has some reward for the children who realise they *are* the best, and even quite clever children don't neccessarily know that. Here is that they are spotting that the worst children are getting the rewards, and concluding that the way to get rewards is to behave badly some of the time, even if their natural inclination is to behave well. Further the more extrovert children might be happy to point this out to the teacher, but the quieter ones won't. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
1997 video MSBP ""expert"" Prof Savid Southall shuts down interview! | Greegor | Spanking | 19 | September 15th 07 11:45 PM |
COVER BLOWN: "Capital Resources Institute" is the name of a right wing "family values" org who want violence to be allowed against certain kids | zeez[_2_] | Solutions | 1 | August 23rd 07 03:39 AM |
Surgeons "maimed" brain damaged child to "convenience" caregivers, health advocate charges | Jan Drew | General | 0 | January 15th 07 07:43 PM |
Surgeons "maimed" brain damaged child to "convenience" caregivers, health advocate charges | Jan Drew | Kids Health | 0 | January 15th 07 07:43 PM |