Folic acid absorption and caffeine?

Folic acid can prevent neural tube defects (at 400mcg) by 70 %. Seems
worth it to take it! Apparently, I fall into that 30 %, and if we were to
have another I would have to take 4 mg (10 times more than recommended).
It's frustrating as most health care providers assume I wasn't taking
folic
acid, and I get the same lecture with each knew one I meet. That's a bit
unfair, I guess, because it's usually more of a question, and I beat them
to
the punch and go into the whole spiel of how I knew the benefits, and I
was
taking folic acid, etc.

bummer, but then it's worth it, for some reason I have tested as having low
folates, incidently there is a link between low folates and postnatal
depression (or maybe just depression in general), so I requested the higher
dose (the ones available in the uk are 5mg), but I literally took it from
starting to ttc and the 12 week mark, because there are risks in taking it
long term

I'm struggling to remember, but I'm thinking that caffeine doesn't have a
signigicant effect on the absorption of other things as it is itself
absorbed very fast, it's stuff like proteins that give problems, there are
things that inhibit folic acid absorption, but they seem to be a fairly
random selection of stuff, including some antibiotics, antacids, indigestion
remedies. There are some drugs that increase the bodies need for folic acied
and some that reduce it and some that impair metabolism of it.

hope that helps

Anne

Hi Joy,

How are things going? How is Grant? Have the other
kids settled in?

As for folic acid, I'm with Anne (and you): 1-2 cups
of coffee probably couldn't nullify all the folic
acid you were taking. I was on extra folic acid with
this pg, since the tests after we lost Scheherazade
indicated I have a genetic mutation which should impair
folate metabolism --- the odd thing was, that the
blood tests which look more directly at folate metaboolism
(homocysteine, which should be too high if you're
not using the folate/not getting enough folate) looked
better than normal. At any rate, I was advised to take
extra folic acid since high homocysteine can cause
clotting problems which can lead to placental problems
(though it's not clear that's what it was with Scheherazade).
To help with metabolizing the folic acid, I was also
taking extra B6 and B12, though no one could tell me
exactly how much I should take.

Emily
--
DS1 5/02
DS2 9/05

For starters, I know I shouldn't be doing this to myself, but I'm not really
as anxious as I might sound. I'm mainly curious.

Also, be sure to take your folic acid... it has major benefits.

Okay, I DID take folic acid prior to getting pregnant. I'm not sure if it
was 2 or 3 months before getting pregnant, but I was taking a folic acid
supplement of 800mcg almost everyday. I also continued to take the folic
acid during the first few months of pregnancy. From my understanding, spina
bifida occurs within the first 27 days of conception, so I "should" have had
it covered. I was also eating a cup of frozen blueberries and a bran cereal
almost everyday. Both are high in folic acid from my understanding. So,
apparently, my little boy was going to have spina bifida and there really
wasn't much I could have done differently. And, yes, I know it wasn't my
fault.

But, the one thing I did do differently was I drank a cup to two cups of
coffee a day. I stopped drinking the coffee once the smell made me want to
vomit, and I've recently started drinking a cup or two a day again which got
me to thinking. I did not drink coffee at all with my three other
pregnancies, and I took a prenatal a month prior (with only 400mcg of folic
acid... go figure) to becoming pregnant. Is it possible that caffeine would
inhibit the absorption of folic acid? I would think it would have to be in
much higher dosages for that to be the case, though.

It's been rattling around in my brain, and I thought perhaps if I wrote it
out I'd maybe shake it loose, y'know?

Folic acid can prevent neural tube defects (at 400mcg) by 70 %. Seems
worth it to take it! Apparently, I fall into that 30 %, and if we were to
have another I would have to take 4 mg (10 times more than recommended).
It's frustrating as most health care providers assume I wasn't taking folic
acid, and I get the same lecture with each knew one I meet. That's a bit
unfair, I guess, because it's usually more of a question, and I beat them to
the punch and go into the whole spiel of how I knew the benefits, and I was
taking folic acid, etc.

I do know it wasn't my fault, though. I know I did what I could. It's just
wanting to understand why that didn't work that I've got to work through now
and then!


--
Joy

Rose 1-99
Iris 2-01
Spencer 3-03
Grant 9-05

"Anne Rogers" wrote in message
...
Folic acid can prevent neural tube defects (at 400mcg) by 70 %.
Seems
worth it to take it! Apparently, I fall into that 30 %, and if we were
to
have another I would have to take 4 mg (10 times more than recommended).
It's frustrating as most health care providers assume I wasn't taking
folic
acid, and I get the same lecture with each knew one I meet. That's a
bit
unfair, I guess, because it's usually more of a question, and I beat
them
to
the punch and go into the whole spiel of how I knew the benefits, and I
was
taking folic acid, etc.

bummer, but then it's worth it, for some reason I have tested as having
low
folates, incidently there is a link between low folates and postnatal
depression (or maybe just depression in general), so I requested the
higher
dose (the ones available in the uk are 5mg), but I literally took it from
starting to ttc and the 12 week mark, because there are risks in taking it
long term

That is a pretty high dosage to take long term.

I'm struggling to remember, but I'm thinking that caffeine doesn't have a
signigicant effect on the absorption of other things as it is itself
absorbed very fast, it's stuff like proteins that give problems, there are
things that inhibit folic acid absorption, but they seem to be a fairly
random selection of stuff, including some antibiotics, antacids,
indigestion
remedies. There are some drugs that increase the bodies need for folic
acied
and some that reduce it and some that impair metabolism of it.

That is interesting to consider. One thing that was posted in the sb group
was green tea could block the effects of folic acid. '

hope that helps

Thanks, Anne!


--
Joy

Rose 1-99
Iris 2-01
Spencer 3-03
Grant 9-05

"Emily" wrote in message
...
At any rate, I was advised to take
extra folic acid since high homocysteine can cause
clotting problems which can lead to placental problems
(though it's not clear that's what it was with Scheherazade).
To help with metabolizing the folic acid, I was also
taking extra B6 and B12, though no one could tell me
exactly how much I should take.

I don't know if they've even established an upper limit to B12. It isn't
well absorbed, so you can take considerable amounts of it without ending up
with high levels in your body. Some people don't absorb it from foods as it
binds to protein - common after the age of 50-60 - and some people don't
absorb it through the gut at all due to other conditions, and of course it's
vital that vegans have a B12 supplement. Low B12 can raise homocysteine
levels on its own if I remember rightly, even if folate is normal.
Too much B6 of course over a long period of time can cause nervous system
damage to *you*, so it's important not to exceed the recommended dose.


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

"Joybelle" wrote in message
...

But, the one thing I did do differently was I drank a cup to two cups of
coffee a day. I stopped drinking the coffee once the smell made me want
to
vomit, and I've recently started drinking a cup or two a day again which
got
me to thinking. I did not drink coffee at all with my three other
pregnancies, and I took a prenatal a month prior (with only 400mcg of
folic
acid... go figure) to becoming pregnant. Is it possible that caffeine
would
inhibit the absorption of folic acid? I would think it would have to be
in
much higher dosages for that to be the case, though.

I would think if there was a strong link to a couple of cups of coffee a day
and neural tube defects, we'd know about it by now. Especially considering
the amount of folic acid you were already consuming.
BTW for the benefit of anyone else, too much folic acid via supplements
without medical advice (e.g. taking more than the recommended dose and late
into pregnancy) can contribute to placental calcification, so just a word of
caution.


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

"Emily" wrote in message
...
Hi Joy,

How are things going? How is Grant? Have the other
kids settled in?

Hi, Emily,
Things are going pretty well. We took Rose for an appointment on the 14th
to Iowa to see Dr. Ponseti. He took a look at Grant's feet while we were
there, and he felt we were in good hands. It was reassuring and
discouraging at the same time because he thought his method would be
beneficial but probably not fully successful as it would be on congenital
clubfeet. Grant is going to have a percutaneous tenotomy on both feet on
the 13th of December. As for Rose, Dr. P was very pleased and thought her
clubfoot was functioning wonderfully.

Grant is growing in leaps and bounds. At 7 weeks he was already over 13
pounds! He's smiling now and trying to make some noises. He's very alert
and that seems to please the doctors. The older kids have been doing
pretty well. A bit of sassiness and disobedience from the 6yo, some
screaming and crying from the 4yo, and a little pinching and biting from the
2yo, and life is pretty much normal...LOL

By the way, I had a dream about you last night. I'm pretty vague this
morning as to what it was actually about, but we were on an island or
something like that! All I remember is we were surrounded by water, and we
talked about Sheherazade and Grant. My sister was also there. That's what
I remember anyway, and I think there was more of a story to the dream, but I
can't remember what it was!

As for folic acid, I'm with Anne (and you): 1-2 cups
of coffee probably couldn't nullify all the folic
acid you were taking. I was on extra folic acid with
this pg, since the tests after we lost Scheherazade
indicated I have a genetic mutation which should impair
folate metabolism --- the odd thing was, that the
blood tests which look more directly at folate metaboolism
(homocysteine, which should be too high if you're
not using the folate/not getting enough folate) looked
better than normal. At any rate, I was advised to take
extra folic acid since high homocysteine can cause
clotting problems which can lead to placental problems
(though it's not clear that's what it was with Scheherazade).
To help with metabolizing the folic acid, I was also
taking extra B6 and B12, though no one could tell me
exactly how much I should take.

Thanks, Emily, for the info. I think I heard mention of the B vitamins
before. I'm a bit interested to see what blood tests would reveal for me if
I were to take them. We aren't planning to have any more children, but it
would still be interesting to see if there's a factor.

I think the main reason the coffee/caffeine has been tossing around in my
head is I've determined I have a bit of sensitivity to the stuff.

Joy

Joybelle wrote:
Is it possible that caffeine would
inhibit the absorption of folic acid? I would think it would have to be in
much higher dosages for that to be the case, though.

Along with everyone else, I don't think there is a connection. I've
heard that caffeine affects calcium absorbtion though. Were you taking
any other medication? I was surprised to find, for instance, that
sulfasalazine, a popular drug used to treat arthritis, inhibits the
absorption of folic acid.

As a mirror opposite to your experience I have a cousin whose oldest
child has spina bifida. Believe it or not with her subsequent
pregnancies she didn't take any supplements (prenatal or folic acid
alone, not because she doesn't believe in it she's just kind of
irresponsible and "forgot") and her subsequent kids did not have spina
bifida.

I'm glad to hear Grant is doing well, he must enjoy his milk!

Elle

Joybelle wrote:
Things are going pretty well. We took Rose for an appointment on the 14th
to Iowa to see Dr. Ponseti. He took a look at Grant's feet while we were
there, and he felt we were in good hands. It was reassuring and
discouraging at the same time because he thought his method would be
beneficial but probably not fully successful as it would be on congenital
clubfeet. Grant is going to have a percutaneous tenotomy on both feet on
the 13th of December. As for Rose, Dr. P was very pleased and thought her
clubfoot was functioning wonderfully.

Yay on Rose's foot! Is Grant nearly done with his casts already
then? It goes so fast with newborns...

I thought "congenital" meant "present at birth" (whether genetic
or environmental in origin), so that would mean Grant's clubfeet are
congenital, too. Is that the word Dr. Ponseti used? I think there
might be some other, like "ideopathic" meaning "not related to anything
else". Are his clubfeet related to the sb, or superimposed?


Grant is growing in leaps and bounds. At 7 weeks he was already over 13
pounds! He's smiling now and trying to make some noises. He's very alert
and that seems to please the doctors. The older kids have been doing
pretty well. A bit of sassiness and disobedience from the 6yo, some
screaming and crying from the 4yo, and a little pinching and biting from the
2yo, and life is pretty much normal...LOL

Par for the course. Yay on Grant's growth, and on smiling, of course

By the way, I had a dream about you last night. I'm pretty vague this
morning as to what it was actually about, but we were on an island or
something like that! All I remember is we were surrounded by water, and we
talked about Sheherazade and Grant. My sister was also there. That's what
I remember anyway, and I think there was more of a story to the dream, but I
can't remember what it was!


How cool to show up in another mkp-er's dreams Maybe Scheherazade
was sending a message through you...

Emily
--
DS1 5/02
Scheherazade, stillborn 20w, 3/04
DS2 9/05

Joybelle wrote:
*sigh* I believe it. When my oldest was born with clubfoot, I went through
a whole gamut of emotions. I had done everything "right", and here I had a
child with a (minor) birth defect. I look back on that reaction now, and I
have to laugh a little at myself. Having done things "right" again, it is
what it is. I don't know what I could have done differently to change the
outcome this time, and it really doesn't matter. I have a fabulous little
boy, and goshdarnit, I love him just the way he is. I wish I could spare
him the challenges he'll face, but perhaps he won't find them as big of a
deal as I think they'll be.

It sounds like things are going really well! Not the same thing (since
the clubfoot--knock wood--won't be a challenge in the long term), but
I often look at DS2 and think how perfect he is, even with the clubfoot,
'perfect' is the term that comes to mind! As for the long term
challenges, one thing that I think I would find really sad, or poignant,
is how he can't yet know what lies ahead. Luckily, his normal is
his normal, YKWIM? He'll learn and grow and thrive with whatever
physical challenges he has, as his baseline experience. I hope I'm
making sense, and not offending.

A friend of mine sent a very sweet card to DS2 when he was born, saying
"You'll find that you have chosen wisely with respect to your family."
I believe the same thing holds of your Grant!

Emily
--
DS1 5/02
DS2 9/05