3 week supply problems

"Cheri Stryker" wrote and I snipped:

Thanks, everyone, for the consensus - possible thrush, probable bad latch
(I agree there, since sometimes it hurts and sometimes it doesn't), and
probable growth spurt.

Any suggestions on how to improve a bad latch? Just keep pulling at his
lips to make them "fish out"?

Check out the video clips in the center column:

http://www.breastfeeding.com/helpme/helpme_video.html

-Patty, mom of 1+2

Xavier wrote:
"Cheri Stryker" wrote in message
...

Cheri Stryker wrote:

Any suggestions on how to improve a bad latch? Just keep pulling at his
lips to make them "fish out"?

Repeat, repeat, repeat. When he first goes to latch, look at him and say
"Ahhhhhh" with your mouth open REALLY wide. Most times he will imitate you,
even at this young age. Alaways wait until his mouth is open very very wide
before you start to nurse. When you do go to latch him on, aim for the roof
of his mouth, that will help insure that you have a nice asymmetrical latch.
Should help with the pain also. If you feel him start to slip, or you
notice that the latch has changed, even slightly, unlatch him and start all
over again.

I think I might be getting the hang of this. But, here's the thing:
he's incredibly gassy, and even when we get an enormous belch
after/during feeds, he still has painful lower down gas. And working up
to fart it out seems to really hurt him. While this is going on, he
acts like he wants to nurse, and that's when his latch is the worst -
lots of on and off, lots of slipping down.

Any suggestions on cues to tell the difference between hungry and wanna
nurse for comfort because of the farts? I just feel so bad about
pulling him off when I suspect that it's just wanting comfort, I want to
comfort him, of course, but it's getting us deep into a bad cycle. This
evening he threw up all over me and him, even out his nose, poor thing,
and THEN let out an enormous burp.

Could it be reflux?

PattyMomVA wrote:

"Cheri Stryker" wrote and I snipped:

Thanks, everyone, for the consensus - possible thrush, probable bad latch
(I agree there, since sometimes it hurts and sometimes it doesn't), and
probable growth spurt.

Any suggestions on how to improve a bad latch? Just keep pulling at his
lips to make them "fish out"?


Check out the video clips in the center column:

http://www.breastfeeding.com/helpme/helpme_video.html

-Patty, mom of 1+2


I've got that page open in another window, right now. Thanks!

Cheri Stryker writes:
: My newest son, Harry, passed his 3 week mark on Wednesday. At his check
: on Tuesday, he had gained a pound over his birth weight, and diapers are
: all looking good, so we're not too worried about him, at the moment. BUT:

: after clortrimazole and gentian violet, my boobs are still killing me,
: but in a manner which does not indicate Thrush. For the longest time I
: thought that Harry's fussiness and gassiness was due to Thrush, but no
: longer.

: I'm absolutely sure that my supply is low. We've been supplementing,
: due to an early scare with dehydration (Mom's boobs were just too sore
: to nurse through it), and tonight after hours of painful nursing and
: crying, Dad called it and gave him a bottle of formula - Wham-o, out
: like a light, totally contented.

: So I'm looking for advice on non-prescription ways to boost my supply.
: I'm pumping, I'm taking fenugreek, I'm eating oatmeal, and I found this
: tea, Organic Mother's Milk by Traditional Medicinals. The tea's
: ingredients a

: Organic bitter fennel fruit 560 mg, organic aniseed fruit 350 mg,
: organic coriander fruit 210 mg, organic fenugreek seed 35 mg, organic
: blessed thistle herb 35 mg. Proprietary blend: organic spearmint leaf,
: organic West Indian lemongrass leaf, organic lemon verbena leaf, organic
: marshmallow root. (http://traditionalmedicinals.com/?id=30&pid=14)

: Am I doing enough? Is there anything else I need to worry about, like,
: cut out caffeine, or something simple I'm overlooking? I'm NOT going to
: keep giving him formula, but I really can't deal with the crying for 4
: hours, either.

OK. Since you are already doing all the dietary things, I will have to
suggest the three non-dietary things to do.

1. Drink water. At least 12 oz (350 ml) every 2 hours. Day and night.
Keep a sports bottle by your bed. (Well, don't wake yourself up just to
take a drink, but if your wake up, take a sip.) Don't substitute coffee
tea or whatever else. Drink water.

2. Rest. Especially with a newborn. Have DH do the shopping, house
cleaning, errands, cooking (is there anything I forgot?). Stay in bed
with the baby. Sleep during the day when the baby takes nap. This will
help make up for the night wakings.

3. Nurse for as often and long as possible. Let the baby comfort nurse
after he is full. If you are still experiencing pain not related to thrush,
it may be his latch. Have you had it checked. It is often easier to
latch lying side by side on the bed facing each other. Anyway, if and when
you find a comfortable position stick with it. Your production also tends
to be the highest in the second half of your sleep cycle, say between 3 AM
and 7 AM. Get the baby to remove as much milk as possible at this time to
increase your supply. The more milk you remove by nursing, the more you
will produce.

Good luck,
Larry

Cheri Stryker wrote:

I think I might be getting the hang of this. But, here's the thing: he's
incredibly gassy, and even when we get an enormous belch after/during
feeds, he still has painful lower down gas. And working up to fart it out
seems to really hurt him. While this is going on, he acts like he wants
to nurse, and that's when his latch is the worst - lots of on and off,
lots of slipping down.

Yay, great news that things are feeling better for you today!! Have you
tried to bicycle his legs during the day, or doing the "I Love You" rub
(tracing an L on his belly to help work the gas out)? Gas can definitely be
uncomfortable for little ones, and it hurts, especically when they can't
quite figure out how to get it out.



Any suggestions on cues to tell the difference between hungry and wanna
nurse for comfort because of the farts?

It's probably just going to take you some time watching him and learning
about him to figure it out. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with
nursing for comfort.

I just feel so bad about
pulling him off when I suspect that it's just wanting comfort, I want to
comfort him, of course, but it's getting us deep into a bad cycle. This
evening he threw up all over me and him, even out his nose, poor thing,
and THEN let out an enormous burp.

Awww poor guy!! Are you nursing him really well before switching sides?
Maybe try nursing him more upright to relieve some of the gas or burping him
a little more frequently during feeds?



Could it be reflux?


I'm always hesitant to go that route because I think personally that reflux
in babies is highly over-diagnosed. That being said, is he burping up
straight undigested milk or is it curdled? Is it actual vomiting (i.e.
shoots out of his mouth) or more like spit up? How many times a day?

Carrie & Jazz

"Cheri Stryker" wrote in

Any suggestions on cues to tell the difference between hungry and wanna
nurse for comfort because of the farts? I just feel so bad about pulling
him off when I suspect that it's just wanting comfort, I want to comfort
him, of course, but it's getting us deep into a bad cycle.

When my second son acted similarly (and we were in a similar cycle) I
discovered that if he wanted to suck for comfort he was very content to suck
on my pinky finger (nail side down). He'd suck awhile and fall asleep or
calm down...and be happy and comfortable. If he was really hungry he'd fuss
at my finger.

Could it be reflux?

Could be. I don't know much about reflux. Neither of mine even spit up.

--
Nikki

wrote:


1. Drink water. At least 12 oz (350 ml) every 2 hours. Day and night.
Keep a sports bottle by your bed. (Well, don't wake yourself up just to
take a drink, but if your wake up, take a sip.) Don't substitute coffee
tea or whatever else. Drink water.

2. Rest. Especially with a newborn. Have DH do the shopping, house
cleaning, errands, cooking (is there anything I forgot?). Stay in bed
with the baby. Sleep during the day when the baby takes nap. This will
help make up for the night wakings.

Well, taking care of the 6-year-old, too. [grin] I just thank god he's
in school, so I have time for naps.

3. Nurse for as often and long as possible. Let the baby comfort nurse
after he is full. If you are still experiencing pain not related to thrush,
it may be his latch. Have you had it checked. It is often easier to
latch lying side by side on the bed facing each other. Anyway, if and when
you find a comfortable position stick with it. Your production also tends
to be the highest in the second half of your sleep cycle, say between 3 AM
and 7 AM. Get the baby to remove as much milk as possible at this time to
increase your supply. The more milk you remove by nursing, the more you
will produce.

Oddly enough, lying down the latch is the worst. I keep trying, mostly
cuz I'm just too tired to try to struggle into an upright position.
Gotta get over that.

Thanks, Larry!

Xavier wrote:

Cheri Stryker wrote:


I think I might be getting the hang of this. But, here's the thing: he's
incredibly gassy, and even when we get an enormous belch after/during
feeds, he still has painful lower down gas. And working up to fart it out
seems to really hurt him. While this is going on, he acts like he wants
to nurse, and that's when his latch is the worst - lots of on and off,
lots of slipping down.


Yay, great news that things are feeling better for you today!! Have you
tried to bicycle his legs during the day, or doing the "I Love You" rub
(tracing an L on his belly to help work the gas out)? Gas can definitely be
uncomfortable for little ones, and it hurts, especically when they can't
quite figure out how to get it out.


Yep, we try pretty much everything. It seems to be getting a little bit
better today, I think really focusing on the latch is helping the gas
situation.

I just feel so bad about

pulling him off when I suspect that it's just wanting comfort, I want to
comfort him, of course, but it's getting us deep into a bad cycle. This
evening he threw up all over me and him, even out his nose, poor thing,
and THEN let out an enormous burp.


Awww poor guy!! Are you nursing him really well before switching sides?
Maybe try nursing him more upright to relieve some of the gas or burping him
a little more frequently during feeds?


I've been nursing much longer, today, until he let go on his own, and it
seems to be improving the situation. Though he's still really hard to
burp.

(Vain Mommy warning) He's really strong, and can pretty much hold his
head up already, so that actually makes it harder to burp him, because
he's always arching up, or throwing himself from side to side when I
want him to just be on my shoulder to burp.


Could it be reflux?
I'm always hesitant to go that route because I think personally that reflux
in babies is highly over-diagnosed. That being said, is he burping up
straight undigested milk or is it curdled? Is it actual vomiting (i.e.
shoots out of his mouth) or more like spit up? How many times a day?

I actually retract the question. That was only the second time in his
life that he spit up, and it was most likely due to my attempts to quiet
him with feeding (formula), when I should have been working on the gas.

Thanks for spending so much time on this with me, Carrie. I think part
of my problem is that I'm remembering his brother, five years ago, who
nursed until just past a year, so I'm working off fuzzy memories of a
much older baby. I'm confident we'll get it.

Oh, and, best part - no formula at all today! Yay!

Nikki wrote:

"Cheri Stryker" wrote in


Any suggestions on cues to tell the difference between hungry and wanna
nurse for comfort because of the farts? I just feel so bad about pulling
him off when I suspect that it's just wanting comfort, I want to comfort
him, of course, but it's getting us deep into a bad cycle.


When my second son acted similarly (and we were in a similar cycle) I
discovered that if he wanted to suck for comfort he was very content to suck
on my pinky finger (nail side down). He'd suck awhile and fall asleep or
calm down...and be happy and comfortable. If he was really hungry he'd fuss
at my finger.

That's what I've been doing today, I'll give him an opportunity to
nurse, but if he mucks about, he gets the binky. He's been happier
today, so it seems like good advice to me!

Cheri Stryker wrote:


I've been nursing much longer, today, until he let go on his own, and it
seems to be improving the situation. Though he's still really hard to
burp.

Great! It sounds like he's starting to regulate and making sure to go at
his own pace. I'm glad that it's helping.


(Vain Mommy warning) He's really strong, and can pretty much hold his head
up already, so that actually makes it harder to burp him, because he's
always arching up, or throwing himself from side to side when I want him
to just be on my shoulder to burp.


You are MORE than allowed to be a vain Mommy. It's in the rule book.
Instead of the shoulder burp, try putting his head in your hand and his body
lying down your arm and burp him that way. If you aren't able to hold him
that way you could try just lying him across your lap. Of course, with the
spitting issue it's DEFINITELY better to have him upright. But if it's an
issue of him not burping at all, or not doing so easily these positions may
help.


I actually retract the question. That was only the second time in his
life that he spit up, and it was most likely due to my attempts to quiet
him with feeding (formula), when I should have been working on the gas.

Yup yup yup! Sounds like the culpret to me, I wouldn't worry about Reflux
at all at this point then. Formula is likely going to make the gas
situation worse too (which I'm sure you already know) so until you are back
to 100% on the breast you may continue to have a few problems getting him to
burp.



Thanks for spending so much time on this with me, Carrie. I think part of
my problem is that I'm remembering his brother, five years ago, who nursed
until just past a year, so I'm working off fuzzy memories of a much older
baby. I'm confident we'll get it.

It's no problem at all, it's what I love to do. I'm happy to help.
It's SO hard not to compare. As humans, the way that we approach new
experiences is to take what we know about similar experiences in the past
and try to make them fit. It makes more sense that way. But babies
certainly don't make sense most of the time...haha. so it's easier if you
can just let go and go with the flow with each individual child. If you are
type-A like me it's difficult to let go so much and trust your instincts,
but the more you do it, the easier it is.


Oh, and, best part - no formula at all today! Yay!

EXCELLENT news!!! You are well on your way!!

Carrie & Jazz