OT religion and smacking

"Nina" wrote in message ...
"Nevermind" wrote in message
om...
"Chotii" wrote
I bought a pack because I'm using them to help Victoria learn to
put food
items of some size into her mouth, and eat them. But of course the
other
kids want them too. After removeing the bag from their bedroom
where they
had sneaked it, with display of much displeasure on my part, I
brought it
down and put it in front of me at my desk. Emmaline came and very
very
slowly crept her hand toward it, watching my face the whole time.
I said
"No, we're not having any more." The hand kept creeping.

Now, what would YOU do?

Threaten them with a punishment for direct disobedience, e.g., no
junk
food at all for the next X amount of time. And follow through, time
after time. Eventually, most kids will respond to this kind of
discipline.


Most isnt all. And some of us do happen to have the kids who are
in the minority/

But what makes you think they'll respond quicker and in a more
positive way to being hit? The behavior Chotii described is not that
of a child who was "cured" of her disobedience by spanking.

"Nevermind" wrote in message
om...
"Nina" wrote in message
...
"Nevermind" wrote in message
om...
"Chotii" wrote
I bought a pack because I'm using them to help Victoria learn
to
put food
items of some size into her mouth, and eat them. But of course
the
other
kids want them too. After removeing the bag from their
bedroom
where they
had sneaked it, with display of much displeasure on my part, I
brought it
down and put it in front of me at my desk. Emmaline came and
very
very
slowly crept her hand toward it, watching my face the whole
time.
I said
"No, we're not having any more." The hand kept creeping.

Now, what would YOU do?

Threaten them with a punishment for direct disobedience, e.g.,
no
junk
food at all for the next X amount of time. And follow through,
time
after time. Eventually, most kids will respond to this kind of
discipline.


Most isnt all. And some of us do happen to have the kids who are
in the minority/

But what makes you think they'll respond quicker and in a more
positive way to being hit? The behavior Chotii described is not that
of a child who was "cured" of her disobedience by spanking.

When all else fails and you try it, it either works or doesn't.

(Irene) wrote in message . com...
Marie wrote in message . ..
On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 18:52:44 -0500, Bruce and Jeanne
wrote:
My best childhood friend lived with a gun in her house. Locked. Given
safety lessons. Then, at 18, because she wasn't doing well at college,
she unlocked the case because she knew where the key was and shot
herself.

That is really, really sad to hear (
But I feel the need to make the point that there are other objects to
commit suicide with...drugs, or a car, or a knife.
Marie

Yes, but people who attempt suicide with a gun are much, much more
likely to end up dead. I don't have statistics handy, but I am sure
they are readily available to support that.

Even if this is true, I still think the benefits outweigh the risks
because where upstanding people legally own guns crime rates are
reduced. I am more worried about an external threat than an internal
threat at this point as I know my dh and I aren't going to kill
ourselves and we make sure the girls don't have access to our guns.
We are just moving to an isolated area too, so there is no doubt we
must take care of ourselves, and cannot rely on the police (not that
anyone can really rely on the police to save them).

I was saved from at least being robbed by having weapons years ago.
Who knows what else would have happened besides being robbed. My dh
and I lived in a bad neighborhood to live cheap while going to
college, and at first we stuck out like victims because we were too
clean cut for the neighborhood. We came out of a grocery store with a
cart full of groceries, and started putting them in our car. Two men
totally veered off their path to a path that would intersect with us,
and the really weird thing was they were not looking at us even though
their path changed to intersect us. They were trying really hard to
look like they weren't coming toward us. Both my dh and I became
alarmed. He reached in his coat to touch the gun he was carrying, and
I reached in my coat to touch the stungun I was carrying. They very
quickly changed their path again to one that would avoid us. We
suddenly looked alot less like victims. That is the wonderful way
that guns can work to protect you without any violence happening.


KC



Irene

Simply making guns illegal doesn't make crime go away. And not just in
America - see
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/e...lk/3009769.stm - this
fellow's house was burgled so many times that he used an (illegal) gun and
shot somebody to death. He is now in prison, because "The parole
board...has
continually refused him early release - saying he has shown no remorse and
would continue to pose a danger to any other burglars."

This guy is no longer in prison and if you read the article you will note
that he shot the burglar in the BACK as he was leaving the property - this
was not self defense it was revenge because he was sick of being burgled and
this was why he was locked up by the UK justice system,which does allow for
a legitimate defence of self defence (providing you use reasonable force).

As a furhter note the last thing I heard about Tony Martin on the UK news
was that he had been arrested for vehicle registration theft ......

Not so squeaky clean after all ...

Ellie

This whole topic has been facinating and has sparked a good discussion
between DH and myself.

I was never smacked as a child, not especially the norm in the UK 30+ years
ago when nobody particularly saw anything against spanking. I was no angel
and remember other punishments that had a far greater impact than spanking
would have done. (Time outs, loss of priveleges (sp?) etc)

DH was spanked at home, had physical punishments at school - he says it
never deterred him and interestingly the one person he has most respect for
is his (now deceased) Grandfather, who was the one member of his immediate
family who never spanked him.

Ellie

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 22:04:14 GMT, "Chotii"
wrote:


"Clisby" wrote in message
...

Nevermind wrote:

If someone has a gun in their house, your kid can get shot with it
there, or that person can take it out of the house, or unwittingly
allow some other dope to do so, thus possibly endangering the rest of
us. Your friend can get shot by her jealous ex-boyfriend, etc. Guns do
kill people, all too easily.

I don't have to wonder about *someone* having a gun in his/her home; we
have a gun in our home. Yes, what you're saying is theoretically
possible. It is not anything I would lose sleep over.

We have a gun. It is kept locked away in a gun safe.

Purely out of interest, why do you have a gun? Serious question - I
know some people keep a gun in the house for self defence in the event
of being burgled, but wouldn't a gun in a safe be a bit hard to get at
in such an event?
--
Linz
YB: 4 months, 15lbs 14oz

Linz wrote:

Purely out of interest, why do you have a gun? Serious question - I
know some people keep a gun in the house for self defence in the event
of being burgled, but wouldn't a gun in a safe be a bit hard to get at
in such an event?

I can answer that as a gun owner (well I'm not but dh is). Dh hunts so has
a variety of guns for that. When we lived out in the boonies we used them
for vermin that were scary for one reason or another. My BIL collects guns
though. He has lots of them, including handguns. He hunts and is also a
member at some gun shooting club and so target practices a lot. He's not
crazy or 'off center' either which is what I previously thought of people
that owned so many guns, lol. Well, and the people I knew that owned so
many (I'm sure others did and I didn't know about it) were a bit crazy. The
non-crazy ones probably don't go out of their way to make sure you know! I
wouldn't know BIL did if dh didn't tell me.
--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

Irene wrote:

So far, ds (age 2.5) has never been spanked. We asked him the other
day, and he had no idea what the word "spanking" meant, in fact! I
definitely think that spanking him would just open up the idea that
hitting is ok, which I'm trying to discourage.

I think I said somewhere else that I spanked Hunter twice. He was at least
3 the first time and he was over 4 the second. His grandma one time asked
him if he wanted a spanking. He perked up and said 'Whats that' like it
might be some kind of special rare treat :-) When I did spank him he
started to cry and scream...You hit me You hit me :-( :-( It was aweful.
I gave two open handed swats on the butt. Luke is a different personality
(and I can definatly get pushed to the end of my rope easier with the two of
them because they interact with each other and can totally ignore me) so he
is only 2.5 now and been spanked three times :-( Twice was over this
aweful biting phase that I just couldn't figure out how to curb. Thankfully
they don't seem to have come to the conclusion that it is OK to hit as they
don't do much of that to each other at all.

When I was small and played house, I spanked my dolls. Everyone I know did
that, but then 34 years ago I bet most girls I knew were spanked by their
parents. Tine if you are reading....I bet little girls in Denmark don't do
that huh?

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

"Nikki" skrev i en meddelelse
...
I can answer that as a gun owner (well I'm not but dh is). Dh hunts so
has
a variety of guns for that. When we lived out in the boonies we used them
for vermin that were scary for one reason or another. My BIL collects
guns
though. He has lots of them, including handguns. He hunts and is also a
member at some gun shooting club and so target practices a lot. He's not
crazy or 'off center' either which is what I previously thought of people
that owned so many guns, lol. Well, and the people I knew that owned so
many (I'm sure others did and I didn't know about it) were a bit crazy.
The
non-crazy ones probably don't go out of their way to make sure you know!
I
wouldn't know BIL did if dh didn't tell me.

Even to me it's ok if you are shooting for game or in clubs. It's the common
mans right to bear arms I don't understand.

Tine, Denmark

"Nikki" skrev i en meddelelse
...
I think I said somewhere else that I spanked Hunter twice. He was at
least
3 the first time and he was over 4 the second. His grandma one time asked
him if he wanted a spanking. He perked up and said 'Whats that' like it
might be some kind of special rare treat :-) When I did spank him he
started to cry and scream...You hit me You hit me :-( :-(

He must somehow know that you are not supposed to. As I believe I've said
befo I don't accept hitting as a means of bringing up children, but I CAN
understand a parent at her ropes end who by accident lashes out. I don't
accept it, but I can understand it - after all we are human and we make
mistakes.

When I was small and played house, I spanked my dolls. Everyone I know
did
that, but then 34 years ago I bet most girls I knew were spanked by their
parents. Tine if you are reading....I bet little girls in Denmark don't
do
that huh?

I'm 45 - I believe it was quite ordinary in maybe 25% of the house holds to
swat once in the bottom of small children. I have never in my grown up life
seen a child playing with dolls hit a doll and say: 'bad, bad doll' or the
like. On the other hand: I know that in lots of families it is not unusual -
even in these days. So much for legislation :-)

Tine, Denmark