The benefits of progesterone supplements

In the light of recent events, I've been doing some reading on
progesterone deficiency and its relation to miscarriages. My findings so
far seem to suggest that I've been having the wrong idea. I am wondering
if there are any experts here that could point me to some additional
literature or websites to read up on it. NOTE: this does not relate to
luteal phase defect, where the situation may be very different.

As I understand now, there is no evidence that progesterone deficiency is
a cause for recurrent miscarriages, but it is the other way around. Low
progesterone levels are a consequence of a faillure in early pregnancy,
and taking supplements would only prolong an unviable pregnancy
unnecessarily.

Here's the website that I found this info on, there is a lot of other very
sensible stuff there, so I tend to believe it. For a fact, it was the
first page where I recognized what happened to me, and didn't find the
standard text-book description of miscarriages that seem so abundant on
the web.

http://www.womens-health.co.uk/prog.htm

and

http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarr.htm

--
-- I
mommy to DS (19m)
mommy to two tiny angels (28 Oct 2003 & 17 Feb 2004)
guardian of DH (33)
War doesn't decide who's right, only who's left

Ilse Witch wrote:

In the light of recent events, I've been doing some reading on
progesterone deficiency and its relation to miscarriages. My findings so
far seem to suggest that I've been having the wrong idea. I am wondering
if there are any experts here that could point me to some additional
literature or websites to read up on it.

You might want to check out the INCIID site. www.inciid.org

I'm almost positive that they'll have information regarding progesterone
supplements. Another thing you might want to look into is LDA therapy.

BTW, I'm glad you're sticking around. :-)

--
Brigitte aa #2145
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/j/joshuaandkaterina/
http://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrow...elected=782084

"Readers are plentiful; thinkers are rare."
~ Harriet Martineau

Ilse Witch wrote:

As I understand now, there is no evidence that progesterone deficiency is
a cause for recurrent miscarriages, but it is the other way around. Low
progesterone levels are a consequence of a faillure in early pregnancy,
and taking supplements would only prolong an unviable pregnancy
unnecessarily.

There is something that hasn't been considered. Some women have a
failure in the corpus luteum that doesn't register as a luteal phase
defect because it performs well enough to support the luteal phase. But
during early pregnancy, it will start to fail.

I do not have a luteal phase defect, but I did have astonishingly low
progesterone levels when we measured them at the beginning of this
pregnancy. I supplemented and credit that to the success of this
pregnancy. We did no testing with the miscarriage I had previously so I
can't say for certain that low progesterone was involved. I am however
normally estrogen dominant. (PCOS)

It is true that most miscarriages are as a direct result of heart
failure in the fetus, for some reason or other. There are studies just
now showing that giving the mother oxygen through a mask can stop some
of these miscarriages by providing more oxygen to the fetus, preventing
heart failure. (Trouble is finding and diagnosing a potential
miscarriage early enough to treat this way...)

Personally if there's even a small chance that progesterone may save a
pregnancy that is in doubt, I'd say go for it. Beta hCG levels do not
lie; they will not keep rising if there is fetal demise and you can keep
testing and discontinue the progesterone if the results show fetal
demise. Any prolonging of the miscarriage in this instance is minimal
and you'll know you've done everything you could to try and save your baby.

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 23:20:48 +0000, Shena Delian O'Brien wrote:

There is something that hasn't been considered. Some women have a
failure in the corpus luteum that doesn't register as a luteal phase
defect because it performs well enough to support the luteal phase. But
during early pregnancy, it will start to fail.

Thanks for the info Shena, I didn't find this yet. Would such a defect
only register through progesterone deficiency, or would other hormones
also be affected? Is there a name for this that I can look it up or do you
perhaps know a good website to read about it? The u/s tech mentioned that
I had a well defined corpus luteum two days after the m/c, if it had
failed, would it still be visible? I know, you probably cannot answer
this, but maybe someone else knows...

I've read stories from several women who carried a healthy baby to full
term, in spite of very low progesterone. One almost had a D&C done, but
declined and now has a healthy daughter. Goes to say, they are just
touching the surface when it comes to understanding hormonal processes in
the human body.

Personally if there's even a small chance that progesterone may save a
pregnancy that is in doubt, I'd say go for it. Beta hCG levels do not
lie; they will not keep rising if there is fetal demise and you can keep
testing and discontinue the progesterone if the results show fetal
demise. Any prolonging of the miscarriage in this instance is minimal
and you'll know you've done everything you could to try and save your baby.

I fully agree with you on that one. As far as I could find, progesterone
supplements do no harm to the baby. Even if the effect is only a placebo,
I'd rather do something than nothing.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (19m)
mommy to two tiny angels (28 Oct 2003 & 17 Feb 2004)
guardian of DH (33)
War doesn't decide who's right, only who's left

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 14:09:49 -0800, DeliciousTruffles wrote:

You might want to check out the INCIID site. www.inciid.org

I'm almost positive that they'll have information regarding progesterone
supplements. Another thing you might want to look into is LDA therapy.

BTW, I'm glad you're sticking around. :-)

Thanks Brigitte. I'm still thinking whether I want to talk to a specialist
now or wait out another pregnancy, but I'll read up on these pages for
sure!

--
-- I
mommy to DS (19m)
mommy to two tiny angels (28 Oct 2003 & 17 Feb 2004)
guardian of DH (33)
War doesn't decide who's right, only who's left

Ilse Witch wrote:

Thanks for the info Shena, I didn't find this yet. Would such a defect
only register through progesterone deficiency, or would other hormones
also be affected?

I don't think there's a name for it and I haven't found any concrete
medical articles on it, but my RE and I have discussed it as relates to
my condition (PCOS). I started this out estrogen dominant but did not
have a luteal phase defect. My ovaries are undoubtedly somewhat scarred
from the PCOS and I suspect that contributes.

perhaps know a good website to read about it? The u/s tech mentioned that
I had a well defined corpus luteum two days after the m/c, if it had
failed, would it still be visible? I know, you probably cannot answer
this, but maybe someone else knows...

On my u/s they saw my corpus luteum too. Before I went on supplements I
was having very harsh twisting, burning ovary pains. A few days into the
supplements they stopped. I suspect the pain was my ovaries trying to
keep up with my body's needs and failing miserably.

Did you ever have your progesterone levels tested?

I've read stories from several women who carried a healthy baby to full
term, in spite of very low progesterone.

What were her numbers? On my labs the low end of the range was 10 and
mine was 8.9. I haven't heard a lower number except when someone
hasn't ovulated *at all*.

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:02:08 +0000, Shena Delian O'Brien wrote:

On my u/s they saw my corpus luteum too. Before I went on supplements I
was having very harsh twisting, burning ovary pains. A few days into the
supplements they stopped. I suspect the pain was my ovaries trying to
keep up with my body's needs and failing miserably.

I have been having ovary pains on and off for about a year now, which is
why I have been looking into PCOS, but I don't seem to have most of the
risk factors. Twice now and u/s has been clear (except for the corpus
luteum) and my impression is it is more ovulating pain than cysts. There
seems to be some relation to my cycle phase.

Did you ever have your progesterone levels tested?

No, never bothered to ask for that. I thought about it this time when I
had a bit of spotting earlier on, but decided I didn't want to know and
just take things as they would come. The spotting stopped well before the
m/c, and my sense of things is that it was not related. I made that
choice, and I am still OK with it, but I also have loads of questions
about what did happen.

What were her numbers? On my labs the low end of the range was 10 and
mine was 8.9. I haven't heard a lower number except when someone
hasn't ovulated *at all*.

She mentioned numbers of 2 and 1.2, but that was probably on a different
scale (European). I don't know how these relate to what they measure here
in the US.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (19m)
mommy to two tiny angels (28 Oct 2003 & 17 Feb 2004)
guardian of DH (33)
War doesn't decide who's right, only who's left

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 17:02:08 GMT, Shena Delian O'Brien
wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!

On my u/s they saw my corpus luteum too. Before I went on supplements I
was having very harsh twisting, burning ovary pains. A few days into the
supplements they stopped. I suspect the pain was my ovaries trying to
keep up with my body's needs and failing miserably.

I'm interested reading this. I'm still waiting for my appointment
with the Gynaecologist (could be up to 3 months) but am currently 7DPO
and feeling these symptoms exactly. I have had two, possibly three,
4-5 week miscarriages in the last 7 months (5 cycles - I have 6 week
cycles).

I'm tempted to ask my GP for prog supplements tomorrow, just in case
I've conceived.

Megan
--
Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth)

To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com

"Ilse Witch" wrote in message
news
In the light of recent events, I've been doing some reading on
progesterone deficiency and its relation to miscarriages. My findings so
far seem to suggest that I've been having the wrong idea. I am wondering
if there are any experts here that could point me to some additional
literature or websites to read up on it. NOTE: this does not relate to
luteal phase defect, where the situation may be very different.

As I understand now, there is no evidence that progesterone deficiency is
a cause for recurrent miscarriages, but it is the other way around. Low
progesterone levels are a consequence of a faillure in early pregnancy,
and taking supplements would only prolong an unviable pregnancy
unnecessarily.

Here's the website that I found this info on, there is a lot of other very
sensible stuff there, so I tend to believe it. For a fact, it was the
first page where I recognized what happened to me, and didn't find the
standard text-book description of miscarriages that seem so abundant on
the web.

http://www.womens-health.co.uk/prog.htm

and

http://www.womens-health.co.uk/miscarr.htm

--
-- I
mommy to DS (19m)
mommy to two tiny angels (28 Oct 2003 & 17 Feb 2004)
guardian of DH (33)
War doesn't decide who's right, only who's left



Hi Ilse,
Thanks so much for posting these links.
Maybe it is because we are both scientists ... but I suspect that has
nothing to do with it .... but the one thing that frustrated me so much when
I m/c was the complete lack of good information available to me. I
foolishly beloved one page that had heaps of refs .. that there was no way
known that I'd ovulate the first month after a D&C ... proved that one
wrong! I did ovulate ... just 2 days later than a normal cycle.

I found many books and web pages full of platitudes but very little hard
information on the "little" questions. The med pages I found were full of
too much jargon (worse than ecological jargon which is bad enough to
follow), and the other pages were often just the standard response.
At the moment, I'm having trouble finding much on being pregnant and
breastfeeding ... the ABA has a booklet and some pages (like kellymom.com)
that discuss it, but most seem to assume that it is your 1st pg and that you
wouldn't be breastfeeding at all anyway ("What to Expect WYE" almost demands
that you stop bf!).

Luckily for me, a midwife answered a number of my questions this week ...
yes it is colostrum that I am producing now and that is all that DD is
getting, but that's OK and I can continue to "feed" her as long as I want
through the pg. ... no, the bf probably did not contribute to my m/c etc
etc. This I knew, but wanted *some* information on it to chew over in my
head.
.... so thanks for the link....good info is hard to find

Amanda

--
DD 15th August 2002
1 tiny angel Nov 2003
EDD 19th August 2004

On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 21:00:39 +0000, Buzzy Bee wrote:

I'm tempted to ask my GP for prog supplements tomorrow, just in case
I've conceived.

If you don't have any medical reason not to take them, you can also get
some Wild Yam supplements and take ~1g a day. I did this in one cycle and
conceived, but it led to my most recent m/c unfortunately, so I'm still
not sure if it did anything or not. Anyway, these supplements do not harm
the baby and you can slowly build them down when you get pregnant (takes
1-2 weeks). However, if your GP wants to do some testing related to
progesterone production by your body, it's better not to take anything.

If you do, be careful not to take them before ovulation though, as the
progesterone will interfere with it and sometimes even prevent it.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (19m)
mommy to two tiny angels (28 Oct 2003 & 17 Feb 2004)
guardian of DH (33)