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How do you decide?



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 27th 03, 04:24 AM
Cindy Wells
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Default How do you decide?

"Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-)" wrote:

Something that I have found is that they need to know they have strong
points in different things. Whether they are in the same class or not
believe me, they know. They hear each other read, do math or just
question/answer things. It is sooo important to stress that even though
they are twins, they are very different and have different talents. One may
be better at math or reading, but the other might be better at drawing. My
DS is a fantastic artist, it shows in everything that he does, he has a
perceptive eye that can distinguish symmetry, lines, distance, etc. His
sister doesn't have any of those skills and does talk about how Chris is
better at drawing. Chris's art teacher is the same one Kathleen has and he
works with all kids, but has said many times how talented Chris is, of
course he doesn't say that Kathleen isn't but it's there just by the grades
he gets. She is a wonderful Irish Dancer, passionate, dedicated and very
artistic in her presentation. Something that even Chris says he of course
could never achieve. I try to stress over and over, just as everyone has a
burden to carry in life (loss of parents, disease or other things - in our
house Chris has seizures and medicine and tests that he has to live with),
each one of us also has a talent that grows and needs to be fed. They will
be compared all of their lives, maybe not directly but they compare each
other - especially as they get older, and you would be lying if you told
both they were equal in everything. It's more truthful to let them know how
they are talented and what they seem to excel in. BTW, Kathleen is a
straight A student (Chris A/B). She retains some things quicker and school
work comes easier to her than him. They see that too, one seems to have to
study more than the other. Chris write better, I could go on and on. But
it will start to grow and I think especially with multiples you have to be
prepared to be honest but supportive.

Shirley
Chris and Kathleen 1/95



Each child's strong points should be noted and encouraged - as they
need it. However, I would advise caution on any scale that starts them
competing to excell at the same things (or stop excelling so as to not
be different). I've unfortunately met some multiples who had learned
either side of these abnormal attitudes.

That is why I dislike seeing a statement of a teacher comparing two
students who share a last name. In the school situation, it's more
informative for the parents to know if the student(s) abilities are
consistently improving over time compared to that child's starting
point. (Comparison to an average for the age is useful for determining
special needs or assistance - whether it be tutoring to bring up to the
norm or additional activities to avoid boredom.)

For something like reading skills, comparing siblings can lead to
odd anomalies in evaluating their skills. I'm a faster reader than
my sister and this sometimes made me seem like a better reader. However
throughout school we were both considered advanced compared to our
age-groups averages. The major difference was that I completed more
questions on the tests - no significant differences in comprehension
for the material we both completed.

Cindy Wells
(who excelled in the humanities and did reasonably well in math and
science; both of my siblings were better with the math and science.
However when we went off to our various college experiences, I chose
to major in chemistry at a school with a good liberal arts program
available for my electives (coursework outside of the major was
required). My sister went to an engineering college where there were
fewer humanities requirements. After those programs we both went on
to do grad work in our respective majors.)
  #22  
Old August 27th 03, 12:13 PM
Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)
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Default How do you decide?

I agree about the teachers comparing the child but the kids do this all on
their own. They do see the other excel in an area that they might be
struggling in or they are very aware of the other child coming home with A's
or on the honor roll with the same curriculum - you don't have to split the
twins not to have the same courses for the same grades. The teachers pretty
much have a set plan daily witch in 3rd grade is the same for each. Granted
their approach to teaching varies but the A's and B's come from the same
stuff. It's very tough to curtail the comparison - again, not necessarily
the spoken word but unspoken. In our situation the teachers don't (even in
the same class), we certainly don't compare them but they compare each
other.

Shirley

"


That is why I dislike seeing a statement of a teacher comparing two
students who share a last name. In the school situation, it's more
informative for the parents to know if the student(s) abilities are
consistently improving over time compared to that child's starting
point. (Comparison to an average for the age is useful for determining
special needs or assistance - whether it be tutoring to bring up to the
norm or additional activities to avoid boredom.)

For something like reading skills, comparing siblings can lead to
odd anomalies in evaluating their skills. I'm a faster reader than
my sister and this sometimes made me seem like a better reader. However
throughout school we were both considered advanced compared to our
age-groups averages. The major difference was that I completed more
questions on the tests - no significant differences in comprehension
for the material we both completed.

Cindy Wells
(who excelled in the humanities and did reasonably well in math and
science; both of my siblings were better with the math and science.
However when we went off to our various college experiences, I chose
to major in chemistry at a school with a good liberal arts program
available for my electives (coursework outside of the major was
required). My sister went to an engineering college where there were
fewer humanities requirements. After those programs we both went on
to do grad work in our respective majors.)



  #23  
Old August 27th 03, 11:14 PM
Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-\)
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Posts: n/a
Default How do you decide?

First off It sounds like anyone who would compare children of any age group
to say "why aren't you more like" is just plain bad parenting IMHO. I
don't care if they are minutes apart or years. Again, luckily we've never
had teachers compare the two even in the same class. Maybe good teachers, I
don't know, but neither kid cares in that sense. What they care about is
just being behind the other one in some way and that is something you can't
hide - unless you lie. Both my kids get a trip out of seeing how big/tall
or how much they each weigh. Yes, they get annoyed when one is above the
other but the doctor keeps telling Kathleen she doesn't want to be 6'3"
which is what Chris (at this rate of growth and shoe size) should be. She
seems to think this is ok. I think at 8.5 they can handle a lot more and
adjust better than children of 5. At 5 these things were issues and took a
lot of coddling to get them through the "bigger, heavier, stronger" issues
including loosing teeth. One lost before the other - how do you control
that or protect the other from the pain of being "behind." There really are
some things that all ages just must come to terms with without being mean or
nasty (which is what I think the "why aren't you" quote is).

Shirley

"Cindy Wells" wrote in message
...
"Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-)" wrote:

I agree about the teachers comparing the child but the kids do this all

on
their own. They do see the other excel in an area that they might be
struggling in or they are very aware of the other child coming home with

A's
or on the honor roll with the same curriculum - you don't have to split

the
twins not to have the same courses for the same grades. The teachers

pretty
much have a set plan daily witch in 3rd grade is the same for each.

Granted
their approach to teaching varies but the A's and B's come from the same
stuff. It's very tough to curtail the comparison - again, not

necessarily
the spoken word but unspoken. In our situation the teachers don't (even

in
the same class), we certainly don't compare them but they compare each
other.

Shirley


I'm aware of that. Most siblings will do that. (My dad is a year
younger than his brother but they had several classes together in
high school. Uncle John apparently was very annoyed by dad's better
grades in the science class.) However, I've seen the misuse of the
comparisons. Variously - expectations of equal achievements (to the
point of making every assignment a competition), "why can't you be more
like your sibling" applied to all activities/subjects, placing twins
in the same class when not appropriate academically so that one fails
or is bored (and then gets in trouble for daydreaming or whatever),
and the like. For most families, these types of excessive comparisons
don't become a factor but you do have to watch out that no one (the
children, parents and their teachers) obsesses about the issues.

Similarly, at the doctor's office a height and weight comparison between
multiples is not important unless it indicates a health problem
developing. In that case the comparison to the normal growth charts
is still more useful (obesity or failure to thrive issues).

Cindy Wells
(In one case, expectations of equal achievement was met by both children
aiming at C's and D's. (How do I know they expected equal grades? They
teased my sister because she'd gotten second honors (A/Bs) and I'd
gotten first honors. We shut them down fast with a "talk to us when you
make any honor role".))



  #24  
Old August 28th 03, 12:44 AM
Cindy Wells
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default How do you decide?

"Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-)" wrote:

First off It sounds like anyone who would compare children of any age group
to say "why aren't you more like" is just plain bad parenting IMHO. I
don't care if they are minutes apart or years. Again, luckily we've never
had teachers compare the two even in the same class. Maybe good teachers, I
don't know, but neither kid cares in that sense. What they care about is
just being behind the other one in some way and that is something you can't
hide - unless you lie. Both my kids get a trip out of seeing how big/tall
or how much they each weigh. Yes, they get annoyed when one is above the
other but the doctor keeps telling Kathleen she doesn't want to be 6'3"
which is what Chris (at this rate of growth and shoe size) should be. She
seems to think this is ok. I think at 8.5 they can handle a lot more and
adjust better than children of 5. At 5 these things were issues and took a
lot of coddling to get them through the "bigger, heavier, stronger" issues
including loosing teeth. One lost before the other - how do you control
that or protect the other from the pain of being "behind." There really are
some things that all ages just must come to terms with without being mean or
nasty (which is what I think the "why aren't you" quote is).

Shirley


You really can't but you do the coddle/comfort routine until they
get old enough to understand. Your children seem rather good at
settling in to that understanding. My parents similarly treated it
calmly until we did too (mom remembers it starting as soon as one of
us crawled); we outgrew it before kindergarten but hit teachers and
other students making the dumb comparisons (and like all bullying, it
needed special handling). It's just that I've seen the constant
competing/comparing between siblings continued at the
Jr. High, high school and college levels. (The college situation was
one always competing while the other ignored the issue.)

When the classmates started teasing because one was in school and the
other is out sick, it is annoying. It's still the type of bullying that
can result in poor coping skills such as the obsession with being the
same; this happens more when combined with bad teachers. I will admit
the schools in general are getting better at handling the response
to all teasing.

Cindy Wells
(there are good and bad ways to handle comparisons; the majority of
parents and teachers probably don't have a problem finding the good
ways. I've just met enough of the exceptions to be very wary of the
issue with school. Since the odds of the other classmates making
comparisons and dumb comments are high, any comparison a teacher might
say can end up being badly misinterpreted by the child already
frustrated by other comments.)
  #25  
Old August 28th 03, 04:12 AM
Cindy Wells
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Posts: n/a
Default How do you decide?

"Shirley M...have a goodaa \\;-)" wrote:

I guess I'm very sensitive to it as my SIL is so incredibly jealous of my DH
that it's ridiculous, considering that they are in their 50's and should get
beyond it - but she still is suffering from "you were smarter and I wasn't."
She has 2 Master's in totally different fields, holds a great job and is
'successful' (whatever that means). My DH did indeed get a graduate degree
but had to change careers as his went defunct with the economy. I can't
believe she still harbors that old "sibling rivalry" something my in-laws
were very good at flaming to death - the "why aren't you like your brother
routine". I do understand that it sometimes never goes away - as the
above - we only talk when necessary and it always comes out. Anyhow, I am
glad that my kids go with the flow.

Shirley



There's nothing like seeing the other mistakes to help you avoid those
(and find new ones) in parenting. All you can do is stay alert and
help your children resolve the issues in beneficial ways as they
come up (or recur).

Cindy Wells
(My mom was luckier - a lot of the sibling issues generated
by her mother's behavior ended up being things mom and her sister
discussed and resolved at summer camp (they went to the same camp
exactly once because of their age differences). Despite being in
different areas of the camp, they got together at one point and
talked things out. The discussion resulted in them both realizing
their mother made mistakes that hurt their relationship so they needed
to start over with each other.)
 




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