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How to stop the night wakings?



 
 
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  #51  
Old March 15th 08, 02:12 AM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Anne Rogers[_4_]
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Posts: 670
Default How to stop the night wakings?


I'm just thinking that odds are you're not very likely
to accomplish the goal of having her and you sleep through
soundly without different rooms.


Unfortunately, based on what I'm hearing, I'd tend to agree, not
necessarily because of the disturbance of lack of it when slipping
(though it is a factor) because if it's going to be a tough process,
then a tough process can become more bearable when there are 2 doors
between you and it. When I was finally convinced that DS's night feeds
were not needed nutritionally we did the method known an controlled
crying, we only were able to stick with it by the fact that the crying
was more tolerable when you weren't in the same room as it, we also used
a timer and instead of pretending we were trying to sleep, we just
switched the light on, sat up in bed and chatted, read etc, whilst
watching that timer. I know this method wouldn't work for every child,
but I think the key to it working for us was that we stuck to absolutely
rigidly.

Cheers
Anne
  #52  
Old March 15th 08, 02:42 AM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
cjra
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Posts: 1,015
Default How to stop the night wakings?

On Mar 14, 7:03*pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
cjra wrote:
btw - I don't mean to sound so flippant. I really appreciate all the
helpful advice from this thread and I'm processing it to figure out
what might and what might not be feasible in our situation. I find,
though, that more and more extreme suggestions are offered, getting
away from the original problem, and then I'm accused of making excuses
when I say those just aren't reasonable in the current situation. As a
last resort, maybe, but I don't think we're there yet.


* * * * I'm just thinking that odds are you're not very likely
to accomplish the goal of having her and you sleep through
soundly without different rooms,


Possibly true. Maybe we should go straight to that, but I'm unable to
convince my DH of that (wonder where DD gets her stubborness from? And
he blames me!) and we're willing to try this first.

but it sounds like that leaves
you with the move the bed scenario, the improve the bed scenario,
or the DH suffers on the less comfortable bed scenario. *


Honestly I'm all for the last scenario, since I sleep on that very
comfy bed every night. We might be able to block off that room with
some effort, we'll see when we get to that point which is the best
solution.
  #53  
Old March 15th 08, 03:06 AM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Nikki
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Posts: 486
Default How to stop the night wakings?


"cjra" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to figure out how I can still have
her in that room, with DH, and sleep.


I'm 95% sure that if when she wakes up he lays there and lets her cry with
only a hand on her back she will start sleeping through (for the most part)
while co-sleeping. I think you could even be in there too. Do not get up
with her, do not feed her, do not do more then say "Time to sleep" and lay
your hand on her. It is CIO except you are right next to her so
considerably gentler. It would also work to plunk her in the crib and do
the same thing but the crying would likely be more intense and take more
days.

I never had luck with laying next to but separate from with my hand on them
(i.e. crib next to bed) but it would be worth a shot.


--
Nikki, mama to
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Brock 4/06
Ben 4/06


  #54  
Old March 15th 08, 03:12 AM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
cjra
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Posts: 1,015
Default How to stop the night wakings?

On Mar 14, 5:29*pm, Rosalie B. wrote:


Wanting a specific mattress, not wanting white noise, and not being
able to sleep where there is talking or the like means problem sleeper
to me and cjra also mentioned that her parents laughed hysterically
when she complains which means to me that they probably had the same
problems with her or at any rate SOME problems.


I never suggested otherwise about myself. Yes, I have a problem
sleeping. Same as when I was a kid. That's why my parents laugh, they
say it's karma. But I wasn't discussing *my* sleep issues. I was
discussing my daughter's.

As for DH, yeah, he has some specific needs, but he doesn't have a
problem sleeping usually. He can wake up and fall back to sleep
easily. The mattress is an issue because he has a bad back, and his
mattress (which he had shipped to the US from Europe when he moved
here) works for him. He claims mine does not. His white noise (or lack
thereof) are just his issues.

All that said, I'm not sure why any of that matters, except that maybe
DD inherited my sleep problems.

I don't think this is heavy vs light. *It is what the person has
trained themselves to do. *I was a sound sleeper until I had children.
Then I had to train myself to wake up and go back to sleep again


My dad can sleep like a log, but say one word and he's up in a second.
My sister who's an MD is the same way - which is fortunate for her as
she often had to take advantage of short intervals for sleep. One
brother is also like that. My mom too. No one trained themselves,
that's just how they are. I don't know about the rest of my siblings,
but I've always had issues with insomnia.

Sleep problems are not something I'd choose, and I don't think they're
very simple to overcome. My parents treated/trained me sleep-wise the
same as my 6 older siblings. I still had problem sleeping as a kid.
  #55  
Old March 15th 08, 08:49 AM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Penny Gaines[_2_]
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Posts: 124
Default How to stop the night wakings?

Nikki wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to figure out how I can still have
her in that room, with DH, and sleep.


I'm 95% sure that if when she wakes up he lays there and lets her cry with
only a hand on her back she will start sleeping through (for the most part)
while co-sleeping. I think you could even be in there too. Do not get up
with her, do not feed her, do not do more then say "Time to sleep" and lay
your hand on her. It is CIO except you are right next to her so
considerably gentler. It would also work to plunk her in the crib and do
the same thing but the crying would likely be more intense and take more
days.

I never had luck with laying next to but separate from with my hand on them
(i.e. crib next to bed) but it would be worth a shot.


This is effectively what we did with an 18mo, who was coming into our
room every night (they had they own room with a bed). It took 2.5 hours
for them to get back to sleep, but only one night. There was an adult
there the entire time (except when we were swopping over).

--
Penny Gaines

  #56  
Old March 15th 08, 01:22 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Ericka Kammerer
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Posts: 2,293
Default How to stop the night wakings?

Penny Gaines wrote:
Nikki wrote:
"cjra" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to figure out how I can still have
her in that room, with DH, and sleep.


I'm 95% sure that if when she wakes up he lays there and lets her cry
with only a hand on her back she will start sleeping through (for the
most part) while co-sleeping. I think you could even be in there
too. Do not get up with her, do not feed her, do not do more then say
"Time to sleep" and lay your hand on her. It is CIO except you are
right next to her so considerably gentler. It would also work to
plunk her in the crib and do the same thing but the crying would
likely be more intense and take more days.

I never had luck with laying next to but separate from with my hand on
them (i.e. crib next to bed) but it would be worth a shot.


This is effectively what we did with an 18mo, who was coming into our
room every night (they had they own room with a bed). It took 2.5 hours
for them to get back to sleep, but only one night. There was an adult
there the entire time (except when we were swopping over).


I agree that it's worth trying, but we never had any
luck being in the room. That just seemed to encourage the
screaming. Even now, if one of mine loses their temper, it
is far, far better to walk away and give them some breathing
room. They won't get themselves under control if you hang
around.
Different kids are very different on this front, so
it's always worth trying the easy road first, but I don't
think it's always the case that having a parent right there
is the gentlest thing for the child.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #57  
Old March 15th 08, 02:43 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Sue
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Posts: 613
Default How to stop the night wakings?

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
I agree that it's worth trying, but we never had any
luck being in the room. That just seemed to encourage the
screaming. Even now, if one of mine loses their temper, it
is far, far better to walk away and give them some breathing
room. They won't get themselves under control if you hang
around.
Different kids are very different on this front, so
it's always worth trying the easy road first, but I don't
think it's always the case that having a parent right there
is the gentlest thing for the child.


I agree, I think it is more confusing to the child because you are right
there. Not picking them up or doing whatever it is they want would just make
mine even more madder and they would cry longer. I think it is far better to
have them in their own rooms and going to them if the screaming escalates.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)


  #58  
Old March 15th 08, 04:07 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Rosalie B.
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Posts: 984
Default How to stop the night wakings?

cjra wrote:

On Mar 14, 5:29*pm, Rosalie B. wrote:

Wanting a specific mattress, not wanting white noise, and not being
able to sleep where there is talking or the like means problem sleeper
to me and cjra also mentioned that her parents laughed hysterically
when she complains which means to me that they probably had the same
problems with her or at any rate SOME problems.


I never suggested otherwise about myself.


What I wrote above was in response to "Jamie Clark"
wrote:

*It sounds to me like she has a family of light sleepers, not problem
*sleepers.


What I wrote was meant at least partly in jest (there was a g in
there which she cut out.

Yes, I have a problem
sleeping. Same as when I was a kid. That's why my parents laugh, they
say it's karma. But I wasn't discussing *my* sleep issues. I was
discussing my daughter's.

As for DH, yeah, he has some specific needs, but he doesn't have a
problem sleeping usually. He can wake up and fall back to sleep
easily. The mattress is an issue because he has a bad back, and his
mattress (which he had shipped to the US from Europe when he moved
here) works for him. He claims mine does not. His white noise (or lack
thereof) are just his issues.

All that said, I'm not sure why any of that matters, except that maybe
DD inherited my sleep problems.

I don't think this is heavy vs light. *It is what the person has
trained themselves to do. *I was a sound sleeper until I had children.
Then I had to train myself to wake up and go back to sleep again


My dad can sleep like a log, but say one word and he's up in a second.
My sister who's an MD is the same way - which is fortunate for her as
she often had to take advantage of short intervals for sleep. One
brother is also like that. My mom too. No one trained themselves,
that's just how they are. I don't know about the rest of my siblings,
but I've always had issues with insomnia.

Have you ever heard of someone who did not 'pass' their internship
because they had insomnia? Yes they are frequently sleep deprived,
but I think anyone who does long shifts at the hospital, MUST learn to
take advantage of short sleep intervals.

Sleep problems are not something I'd choose, and I don't think they're
very simple to overcome. My parents treated/trained me sleep-wise the
same as my 6 older siblings. I still had problem sleeping as a kid.


I developed my attitude toward sleeping during a long train trip we
made when I was about 5 to see my Colorado grandparents. It was too
expensive for us to see them very often. I know I was taken when I
was about 9 months although I don't remember that trip at all. And we
drove out again when I was 10. But the trip(s) (there may have been
more than one) in the middle was/were by train. My mother told me
that she was absolutely frantic because I would not use the toilet on
the train. I don't remember that and it may have been a trip when I
was 3.

In the trip I remember, my dad was sitting reading some technical
journal, and my sister (who was probably about 3) asked him to read
her a story. He told her he would do that after he finished his
article. So she tried valiantly to stay awake for the story. And she
couldn't do it.

The lesson I learned from this was that if you try to stay awake, you
will go to sleep. I always did this when I was a kid - I tried to
stay awake by telling myself stories (in my mind - not out loud). I
nearly always fell asleep before I finished the story, and if not, it
was at least entertaining.

I used my dad's technique later with my own kids - my dd#2 was very
active and didn't need or want a nap when her older sister was still
needing and taking a nap. So I would tell her that if she lay on the
bed quietly for 15 minutes (we had an analog clock for her to watch),
that she could then get up and play quietly. And about half the time,
she'd go to sleep. If she didn't, she'd get up and play quietly.

I also found with myself that the only times I had trouble getting to
sleep was when I was anxious or worried about something so that I
couldn't keep my mind from circling the track. Like if my son was out
at his work I'd find it hard to get to sleep, or if I was in the
middle of an argument with someone, or if I had to get up especially
early to make it to some work site before 6 am. I'd have a very
troubled sleep in those cases because my mind wouldn't stay on the
calming things but would keep snapping back to whatever I was worried
about. So I also evolved a relaxation system (like they do in yoga)
which helped. Sometimes anyway.

But I don't blame the environment for making it hard to sleep. I
blame myself for not being strong minded enough to will myself to
sleep in SPITE of the environment.


  #59  
Old March 15th 08, 06:05 PM posted to misc.kids,misc.kids.pregnancy,misc.kids.breastfeeding
Sarah Vaughan
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Posts: 443
Default How to stop the night wakings?

Sue wrote:
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
I agree that it's worth trying, but we never had any
luck being in the room. That just seemed to encourage the
screaming. Even now, if one of mine loses their temper, it
is far, far better to walk away and give them some breathing
room. They won't get themselves under control if you hang
around.
Different kids are very different on this front, so
it's always worth trying the easy road first, but I don't
think it's always the case that having a parent right there
is the gentlest thing for the child.


I agree, I think it is more confusing to the child because you are right
there. Not picking them up or doing whatever it is they want would just make
mine even more madder and they would cry longer. I think it is far better to
have them in their own rooms and going to them if the screaming escalates.


IME, this depends not just on the child, but on their age and the time
of night!

When I first tried sleep training my son, I used a method of picking him
up in order to immediately lower him down again onto the mattress, and
repeating this until he fell asleep. This was very quick and effective
in getting him to the point where he would fall asleep at bedtime with
just a few minutes of patting his back.

Then, over the next few weeks, things went downhill and he kept refusing
to fall asleep while I patted his back. Eventually I did have to try
walking out of the room, because that was the only thing that would work
(he was one of the kids who was sent nuts by the
moving-further-away-from-the-cot method). Again, quick and effective.
Now, I could have just gone to that one straight away and saved myself a
few weeks of hassle, but I'm glad I didn't. Doing the easier method
first meant that, by the time I moved on to walking out and leaving him
in his room, I knew that he had already had a few weeks of being put to
bed in his cot and thus knew what it was for and what was meant to
happen at this time of night. I knew that although he might not *like*
having to go to sleep there, at least he wouldn't be wondering "What the
hell's going on?!" the way I felt he would have if I'd gone straight
from co-sleeping to leaving him alone in the cot. And it meant I knew
that I had already tried everything else and found it didn't work, so I
was absolutely clear in my mind that this needed to be done and didn't
have any qualms at all about it. I didn't find it awful at all - I knew
the alternatives weren't working, and that was that.

But the interesting thing (to me) is that all of this was *only* done in
order to get him to sleep at bedtime, and, during all this time, I went
on taking him into bed whenever he woke up at night. This worked out
perfectly well. A few months later I night-weaned him but went on
taking him into bed with us whenever he woke up at night and wouldn't
settle immediately - I just wasn't up for a lot of middle-of-the-night
hassle at that point and was prepared to leave that battle for another
time. But, you know what? It never was a battle. As soon as I'd
night-weaned him the night wakings dropped markedly, and within a week
or two he was sleeping through, without me doing a thing further to make
him.

And then, when he was about two, he went through a phase of waking up in
the middle of the night and coming into our bedroom, whereupon I'd take
him back to his room and climb into bed with him and he would fall
asleep. He didn't do this every night and within a few weeks had
stopped doing it, so it seemed to be just a phase. But having me there
settled him down very quickly in the middle of the night, even though he
*still* needed us to be out of the room at bedtime for him to get the
message that it was time to go to sleep instead of staying up chatting.
He had different needs at the different times of night.

So, I guess the message is - I agree with Ericka that it's worth trying
the gentler methods first, and then be prepared to move on if they
aren't working!


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

 




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