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Vaccines Did Not Save Us! - 2 Centuries of Official Statistics



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 3rd 10, 04:51 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,alt.health
Steelclaws
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Vaccines Did Not Save Us! - 2 Centuries of Official Statistics

"carole" wrote in news:wJ5Ao.1243$MF5.805
@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com:


"Steelclaws" wrote in message
4.39...
"carole" wrote in
nd.com:

Vaccines Did Not Save Us! - 2 Centuries of Official Statistics
http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/#Scurvy


You might just as well cite WorldNutDaily - both are equally reliable
sources. That is to say, they're not one bit reliable.

As for the real effect of vaccines, try this one:
http://www.uvm.edu/~bwilcke/ehreth.pdf

It's an article on the global value of vaccination, and it is easy to
understand. Not much complex terminology in it.


crap deleted


Not able to deal with the actual issues, eh? Try reading that article I
posted and talk about it. I do understand why Jan uses that technique
when she cannot respond to something - maybe you're doing the same?

--
We certainly shouldn't abandon the field to the quacks by not
turning up to play. - Peter Moran
  #12  
Old November 3rd 10, 06:39 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,alt.health
carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default Vaccines Did Not Save Us! - 2 Centuries of Official Statistics


"Steelclaws" wrote in message
4.39...
"carole" wrote in news:xI5Ao.1246$gM3.795
@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com:


"Steelclaws" wrote in message
4.39...
"carole" wrote in
nd.com:

Yeah, the graphs show that after immunization was introduced, the
rates of illness and death went down.

Apparently death rates were going down before vaccinations were
reduced.

Red herring. Death rates went down before vaccination because of

better
medical care of patients. What you need to look at is incidence

rates,
and those did not go down before the vaccines were introduced.

--


Crap deleted


How about dealing with the actual point instead of sounding like Jan?


Why don't you stop sounding like bob and Jeff?


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Bob Officer finally admits it -"I am a tool"
http://groups.google.com.au/group/mi...ss+epidemic%22



  #13  
Old November 3rd 10, 10:18 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,alt.health
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Vaccines Did Not Save Us! - 2 Centuries of Official Statistics

On 11/2/10 11:54 PM, Steelclaws wrote:
wrote in
nd.com:

Yeah, the graphs show that after immunization was introduced, the
rates of illness and death went down.


Apparently death rates were going down before vaccinations were
reduced.


Red herring. Death rates went down before vaccination because of better
medical care of patients. What you need to look at is incidence rates,
and those did not go down before the vaccines were introduced.


And, the death rates did not go down to zero with good medical care.
About 1 in 2000 kids who get measles in well-developed countries still die.

My favorite graph was the one where they showed deaths from scarlet
fever going down. That was because of antibiotics!

  #14  
Old November 3rd 10, 10:52 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,alt.health
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Vaccines Did Not Save Us! - 2 Centuries of Official Statistics

On 11/2/10 11:39 PM, carole wrote:
wrote in message ...
On 11/2/10 7:38 PM, carole wrote:
wrote in message ...
Please explain how the measles death rate went from about 2000 per day in 2000 to 450 per day in 2008.
There are just as many poor
people now as then. The answer: vaccinations.

And kids still die from chicken pox, measles, rubella and other vaccine preventable diseases in rich
countries if the population
is not vaccinated - in other words, good nutrition lowers the death rate, but even with good nutrition,
people still die. The only
way to lower deaths and illness to zero from vaccine preventable illnesses is to vaccinate.

Jeff

Did you read the article or even look at it?

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.c...as_Mort_UK_USA

Say thankyou carole.


Yeah, the graphs show that after immunization was introduced, the rates of illness and death went down.


Apparently death rates were going down before vaccinations were reduced.

http://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

"You make several other errors. You say "You never show us the data from before the vaccine was introduced".
Go back and look again. Other than for smallpox, the data goes back decades before the vaccines and shows the
far more dramatic falls in mortality rates without vaccines. Do you think the natural falls in mortality
simply stopped just because a vaccine was introduced? Of course not."

Further -

"Not one paediatric vaccine has been tested in double blinded controlled randomised trials. The controlled
trials which are carried out use another vaccine as "placebo" of similarly untested safety [and this
invalidates the trials]. The vaccines are also tested only on healthy individuals but then given to all
regardless of risk."



However, the site is a good example of misuse of graphs. The graphs are poorly legible. It is a good example
of misinformation.


Oh diddums ...can't handle the truth Dr Jeff, goes into denial mode.


ROTFL!

You crack me up: "Oh diddums."

Jeff

Jeff



  #15  
Old November 3rd 10, 03:21 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,alt.health
Steelclaws
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Vaccines Did Not Save Us! - 2 Centuries of Official Statistics

"carole" wrote in news:ds7Ao.1251$MF5.388
@viwinnwfe02.internal.bigpond.com:


"Steelclaws" wrote in message
4.39...
"carole" wrote in news:xI5Ao.1246$gM3.795
@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com:


"Steelclaws" wrote in message
4.39...
"carole" wrote in
nd.com:

Yeah, the graphs show that after immunization was introduced, the
rates of illness and death went down.

Apparently death rates were going down before vaccinations were
reduced.

Red herring. Death rates went down before vaccination because of

better
medical care of patients. What you need to look at is incidence

rates,
and those did not go down before the vaccines were introduced.

--

Crap deleted


How about dealing with the actual point instead of sounding like Jan?


Why don't you stop sounding like bob and Jeff?


Stop trying to sidetrack and deal with the real point instead:

Red herring. Death rates went down before vaccination because of
better medical care of patients. What you need to look at is incidence
rates, and those did not go down before the vaccines were introduced.

--
The subject of homeopathy is so far removed from medicine that
works, from reason and rationality, that we must stand in awe of
the fact that a billion-dollar industry still thrives by
peddling something that a good friend of mine defined as, 'An
infinitely thin slice of nothing, with the crust trimmed off and
the center removed.' -James Randi
  #16  
Old November 3rd 10, 03:23 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,alt.health
Steelclaws
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 79
Default Vaccines Did Not Save Us! - 2 Centuries of Official Statistics

dr_jeff wrote in
:

Apparently death rates were going down before vaccinations were
reduced.


Red herring. Death rates went down before vaccination because of
better medical care of patients. What you need to look at is
incidence rates, and those did not go down before the vaccines were
introduced.


And, the death rates did not go down to zero with good medical care.
About 1 in 2000 kids who get measles in well-developed countries still
die.


And in the light of that anti-vaxxer stance makes no sense whatsoever -
unless they really care more about their agenda than they care about
kids.

My favorite graph was the one where they showed deaths from scarlet
fever going down. That was because of antibiotics!


I've seen goofs like that before. Either the alternuts are so
incompetent that they don't understand what the graphs/articles they
cite really show, or they hope that their audience is too stupid or lazy
to look them up.

--
The best means of combating the spread of pseudo-science is an
enlightened public, able to distinguish the work of a reputable
investigator from the work of the incompetent and self-deluded. -
Martin Gardner
 




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