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Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 27th 10, 11:25 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science


"Bob Officer" -*-*[email protected]*-*- wrote in message ...
On Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:06:43 +1100, in misc.health.alternative,
"carole" wrote:


"Bob Officer" [email protected] wrote in message ...
On Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:08:47 +0100, in misc.health.alternative,
"john" wrote:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-science/8269/

snip of stolen material

This time scudmore removed the copyright notice. but he is still a
thief.


But bob, you have broken copyright yourself many times, by quoting something I said (below).
And the link doesn't work either - so who's the dummy now?


actually It isn't Carole. you need to learn what is and isn't proper
quoting and citation. The link bring up your original article in my
newsreader. so it is 100% properly referenced according to
international standards.

Exactly How is it a violation of your copyright? it is a considered
fair use under the rules of "public utterance".

Are you claiming you didn't say it? Then that would be considered
libel, not copyright violations. But I have evidence that you did
write it. ergo, it is not libel. and since it is a citation
consisting of less than 10% of what you wrote in that massage it is
considered a properly and accurate citation.


No but you did take me out of context, didn't you?


See how easy it is for you to "be shown to be an idiot", Carole?


Well according to you it is violation of copyright to quote anything and everything.
There is nothing you can't make a case out of.
You spend so much time and effort supervising what people write that you inhibit the free flow of information.
You have already scared of pautrey and now you work on conspiracy john.


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
Most people have built in "slides" that short circuit the mind's critical examination process when it comes to certain sensitive
topics. "Slides" is a CIA term for a conditioned type of response which dead-ends a person's thinking, and terminates debate or
examination of the topic. For example, the mention of the word "conspiracy" usually solicits a slide response with many
eople. -Fritz Springmeier (author)




  #22  
Old October 27th 10, 11:26 AM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

On 10/27/10 6:04 AM, carole wrote:
wrote in message ...
On 10/25/10 7:58 AM, carole wrote:
"Steven wrote in message ...
On 10/22/2010 1:30 AM, carole wrote:

Depends on whether you're talking about medical intervention for emergencies or long-term treatment of chronic disease.
Conventional medicine is good for the former but alternative good for the latter.




Assuming this dichotomy exists, why do you think it exists? What examples would you give?

Steve

Obviously Steve, success stories abound about people who get treated by paramedics, at hospital outpatient clinics, bones get
set,
cuts stitched up, and various operations and interventions to save lives. However, when it comes to treatment of chronic disease
such as cancer, ms, asthma, rheumatic, arthritic and so on, not so good.


If you consider that most people with cancer are cured, then it is pretty good. Not as good people would like, but better than
anything else.

Allopathic medicine has its limitations. I was facing a tonsilectomy myself at one stage but decided instead to see a
chiropractor
which fixed the problem.


No. Chiropractic can't "fix" tonsillitis. You got better on your own.


Haha ...you can't admit it or handle it.


I used to be asthmatic and had allergies to housedust - all fixed after a few years on cellsalts.


In other words, you got better on your own.


You're a real dufus.


Medicine is a racket. In my opinion there is a conspiracy to keep cheap and simple cures from the people in favour of lifelong
dependence on pharmaceutical drugs.


That's your opinion. Back it up with facts.


Get over yourself.


There are many examples of cures to diseases being suppressed, although none of the skeptics in this ng would agree.


Please, share some of those cures that are being suppressed. Please provide evidence both that the cures work (good evidence, not
just anecdotes). And, evidence that the cures are being suppressed.


There was a website called http://www.cancer-tutor.org with all sorts of cancer cures, but it has been suppressed.


How has it been suppressed? Try www.cancertutor.org (no dash).

They all seem
to follow along with the establishment mantra about alternative medicine being useless while allopathic can do no wrong.


I don't recall anyone saying allopathic medicine can do no wrong. All things have risks, allopathic medicine included.


You make all sorts of allowances for scientific medicine - the massive amounts spent on research, the minimal returns, the
pharmaceutical "me too" drugs that don't do anything more than the cheaper ones, the scientific studies that are mostly flawed, and
the vaccinations that probably cause autism in 1/100 kids.


The vaccinations do not cause autism. This conjecture has been tested in
many studies and has been supported. There is no good evidence that
autism is caused by vaccines at all.

Yet OTOH you bag alternative medicine relentlessly and call it rot, rubbish and crap because there are no scientific studies.


That, and that there is no scientific basis to beleive that the
alternative medicine work and plenty of scientific basis to believe that
they don't work, like the over $1 billion wasted at NCCAM that found
that not one alternative therapy tested worked. Not one.

Of course, con-med (aka conjecture-based medicine or alternative medicine) is, by definition, unproven.


So is 90% of science based medicine with its flawed studies.


Wrong. The flawed studies are ignored or proven to have unreliable
results. You are very misleading when you say that 90% of medicine is
wrong to the point of lying.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-science/8269/
Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science
"Much of what medical researchers conclude in their studies is misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong. So why are doctors-to a
striking extent-still drawing upon misinformation in their everyday practice? Dr. John Ioannidis has spent his career challenging
his peers by exposing their bad science."


And the bad science is ignored. Many of the studies are pilot studies
that have too few subjects to be useful. Others have other flaws. The
difference between science and alternative medicine is that the flawed
studies get routed out or ignored, while alternative medicine keeps
using the flawed studies because either they don't know better or are
more interested in selling their snake oil medicine rather than helping
people.

Jeff

  #23  
Old October 27th 10, 02:02 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
Peter Bowditch
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Posts: 1,038
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

"carole" wrote:

There was a website called http://www.cancer-tutor.org with all sorts of cancer cures, but it has been suppressed.


http://www.cancertutor.org/

Those Big Pharma/Illuminati suppressers aren't as smart as they think
they are.

--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com
I'm @RatbagsDotCom on Twitter
  #24  
Old October 27th 10, 07:05 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
john[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 822
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science


"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"carole" wrote:

There was a website called http://www.cancer-tutor.org with all sorts of
cancer cures, but it has been suppressed.


http://www.cancertutor.org/

Those Big Pharma/Illuminati suppressers aren't as smart as they think
they are.



true, but they have you hook line and sinker, but that didn't require too
much effort


  #25  
Old October 28th 10, 02:14 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
carole
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 251
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science


"dr_jeff" wrote in message ...
On 10/27/10 6:04 AM, carole wrote:




There are many examples of cures to diseases being suppressed, although none of the skeptics in this ng would agree.

Please, share some of those cures that are being suppressed. Please provide evidence both that the cures work (good evidence,
not
just anecdotes). And, evidence that the cures are being suppressed.


There was a website called http://www.cancer-tutor.org with all sorts of cancer cures, but it has been suppressed.


How has it been suppressed? Try www.cancertutor.org (no dash).


Thanks for that jeff -- appreciated.


They all seem
to follow along with the establishment mantra about alternative medicine being useless while allopathic can do no wrong.

I don't recall anyone saying allopathic medicine can do no wrong. All things have risks, allopathic medicine included.


You make all sorts of allowances for scientific medicine - the massive amounts spent on research, the minimal returns, the
pharmaceutical "me too" drugs that don't do anything more than the cheaper ones, the scientific studies that are mostly flawed,
and
the vaccinations that probably cause autism in 1/100 kids.


The vaccinations do not cause autism. This conjecture has been tested in many studies and has been supported. There is no good
evidence that autism is caused by vaccines at all.


Except that the autism began at the same time they increased the amount of vaccinations.
There are ways of manipulating studies.


Yet OTOH you bag alternative medicine relentlessly and call it rot, rubbish and crap because there are no scientific studies.


That, and that there is no scientific basis to beleive that the alternative medicine work and plenty of scientific basis to
believe that they don't work, like the over $1 billion wasted at NCCAM that found that not one alternative therapy tested worked.
Not one.


I don't think they looked very hard, and probably found ways to manipulate the studies which is easy when you have the complementary
remedies function NCCAM under the control of the pharmaceutical section..


Of course, con-med (aka conjecture-based medicine or alternative medicine) is, by definition, unproven.


So is 90% of science based medicine with its flawed studies.


Wrong. The flawed studies are ignored or proven to have unreliable results. You are very misleading when you say that 90% of
medicine is wrong to the point of lying.


But they don't know which studies are flawed.
I didn't say 90% of medicine is wrong, rather 90% of studies have flaws.


http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-science/8269/
Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science
"Much of what medical researchers conclude in their studies is misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong. So why are doctors-to
a
striking extent-still drawing upon misinformation in their everyday practice? Dr. John Ioannidis has spent his career challenging
his peers by exposing their bad science."


And the bad science is ignored. Many of the studies are pilot studies that have too few subjects to be useful. Others have other
flaws. The difference between science and alternative medicine is that the flawed studies get routed out or ignored, while
alternative medicine keeps using the flawed studies because either they don't know better or are more interested in selling their
snake oil medicine rather than helping people.


I'll let that go just this time, since you found the website www.cancertutor.org that I'd lost.


--
Carole
www.conspiracee.com
"Of course, no one in this modern day and age really believes in the conspiracy theory of history - except those who have taken the
time to study the subject." -Gary Allen




  #26  
Old October 28th 10, 09:58 PM posted to misc.health.alternative,misc.kids.health,sci.med
dr_jeff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 293
Default Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science

On 10/28/10 9:14 AM, carole wrote:
wrote in message ...
On 10/27/10 6:04 AM, carole wrote:




There are many examples of cures to diseases being suppressed, although none of the skeptics in this ng would agree.

Please, share some of those cures that are being suppressed. Please provide evidence both that the cures work (good evidence,
not
just anecdotes). And, evidence that the cures are being suppressed.

There was a website called http://www.cancer-tutor.org with all sorts of cancer cures, but it has been suppressed.


How has it been suppressed? Try www.cancertutor.org (no dash).


Thanks for that jeff -- appreciated.


They all seem
to follow along with the establishment mantra about alternative medicine being useless while allopathic can do no wrong.

I don't recall anyone saying allopathic medicine can do no wrong. All things have risks, allopathic medicine included.

You make all sorts of allowances for scientific medicine - the massive amounts spent on research, the minimal returns, the
pharmaceutical "me too" drugs that don't do anything more than the cheaper ones, the scientific studies that are mostly flawed,
and
the vaccinations that probably cause autism in 1/100 kids.


The vaccinations do not cause autism. This conjecture has been tested in many studies and has been supported. There is no good
evidence that autism is caused by vaccines at all.


Except that the autism began at the same time they increased the amount of vaccinations.
There are ways of manipulating studies.


Really? When you compare the times that new vaccines came out with the
autism rates, there is no bump up when new vaccines were introduced or a
year or two later.

In addition, those who claim that mercury causes autism predicted that
autism rates would fall when mercury was removed from vaccines. That
didn't happen.

Yet OTOH you bag alternative medicine relentlessly and call it rot, rubbish and crap because there are no scientific studies.


That, and that there is no scientific basis to beleive that the alternative medicine work and plenty of scientific basis to
believe that they don't work, like the over $1 billion wasted at NCCAM that found that not one alternative therapy tested worked.
Not one.


I don't think they looked very hard, and probably found ways to manipulate the studies which is easy when you have the complementary
remedies function NCCAM under the control of the pharmaceutical section..


You might also note that while not one study found any effect, NCCAM
didn't conclude that the conjecture-based medicine (con-med or
alternative medicine) didn't work, but in every case that more study was
needed. If the pharmaceutical companies were really in control, the
conclusion on would be the one supported by the data: Con-med doesn't work.

Of course, con-med (aka conjecture-based medicine or alternative medicine) is, by definition, unproven.

So is 90% of science based medicine with its flawed studies.


Wrong. The flawed studies are ignored or proven to have unreliable results. You are very misleading when you say that 90% of
medicine is wrong to the point of lying.


But they don't know which studies are flawed.
I didn't say 90% of medicine is wrong, rather 90% of studies have flaws.


Whatever.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...-science/8269/
Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science
"Much of what medical researchers conclude in their studies is misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong. So why are doctors-to
a
striking extent-still drawing upon misinformation in their everyday practice? Dr. John Ioannidis has spent his career challenging
his peers by exposing their bad science."


And the bad science is ignored. Many of the studies are pilot studies that have too few subjects to be useful. Others have other
flaws. The difference between science and alternative medicine is that the flawed studies get routed out or ignored, while
alternative medicine keeps using the flawed studies because either they don't know better or are more interested in selling their
snake oil medicine rather than helping people.


I'll let that go just this time, since you found the website www.cancertutor.org that I'd lost.


You'll let it go because you screwed up? How kind of you.

Jeff
 




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