Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?

wrote in message
ups.com...
S'alright, I've replied to the other post you made about this.

Bloody Google doesn't make quotes always that obvious. At least,
that's my story and I'm sticking with it. Upon-re-reading the thread
it is clearer now I know who I should be reading!

I'll try to keep tabs on all the groups but I mostly monitor
misc.health.aids.

Cheers

Bennett


Hi,

I linked over to your report from Oracknows. I thought it was very
interesting. (and I did find some of your posts on the google archive of
misc.health.aids )

I did a check on www.amazon.com for Maggiore's book... and noticed that SHE
has posted a review refuting the posts that claim her beliefs killed her
daughter. She claims they were getting an "independent" review of the
report. I am amused at what is considered "independent" from the "Alive and
Well" group.... like members of its advisory board.

JanD wrote:
Uh huh.

Seems like you are rather good at making up stories.

Like:

Hello there. I am the Nick Bennett you are talking about. I am a long
time regular, or rather ex-regular to misc.health.aids. I have posted
here since the summer of 1998. Right now I'm working full-time in
medicine and my ability to track down and respond to dissident articles
is severly curtailed. I simply don't have the time...

I see you have time to waste and quite an EGO.

I also note you seem to use the same posting host as Ted Nidiffer.

Road Runner
OrgID: RRNY
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US

Quite amazing.

Then when you speak of the UK, you seem to switch to NY.

SUNY Health and Science Center
OrgID: SHSC-1
Address: 750 East Adams Street
City: Syracuse
StateProv: NY
PostalCode: 13210
Country: US


My posting host? You mean RoadRunner from Time Warner Cable. Cripes.
I wonder how many thousands of people are using that one...

Did you bother to read anything I gave you?

Born in the UK, I studied medicine at Cambridge and got my BA, MB/BChir
and PhD from there. I moved to upstate NY in March 2004, and started
work as a clinical research associate in August 2004 while I sat the
USMLE exams. I started my residency a few months back in pediatrics.

Do you need to be spoonfed from the archives?

http://tinyurl.com/bzv89
http://tinyurl.com/afflg
http://tinyurl.com/cq26v
http://tinyurl.com/8qp8a

Do you even care...? Probably not I think.

Do I have time to waste? Sure! It's a Saturday. I'm post-call so I
get a guaranteed 24hrs off from work!

If you research science as well as you research people it's no wonder
you believe the things you do.

Oh yeah, why quote from an post I wrote about ribavarin?

As amusing as all this repartee is, you don't seem much more than a
troll right now. Having fun?

Cheers

Bennett

(cross-posting to MHA to avoid contamination - will cut other groups
next time)

wrote in message
oups.com...

JanD wrote:
Uh huh.

Seems like you are rather good at making up stories.

Like:

Hello there. I am the Nick Bennett you are talking about. I am a long
time regular, or rather ex-regular to misc.health.aids. I have posted
here since the summer of 1998. Right now I'm working full-time in
medicine and my ability to track down and respond to dissident articles
is severly curtailed. I simply don't have the time...

I see you have time to waste and quite an EGO.

I also note you seem to use the same posting host as Ted Nidiffer.

Road Runner
OrgID: RRNY
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US

Quite amazing.

Then when you speak of the UK, you seem to switch to NY.

SUNY Health and Science Center
OrgID: SHSC-1
Address: 750 East Adams Street
City: Syracuse
StateProv: NY
PostalCode: 13210
Country: US


My posting host? You mean RoadRunner from Time Warner Cable. Cripes.
I wonder how many thousands of people are using that one...

From

Herndon
StateProv: VA

NOT that many.


Did you bother to read anything I gave you?

No, actually I didn't, I am not going to search through thousands of
archives back to 1998.

What I saw in 2005 was quite enough for me.



Born in the UK, I studied medicine at Cambridge and got my BA, MB/BChir
and PhD from there. I moved to upstate NY in March 2004, and started
work as a clinical research associate in August 2004 while I sat the
USMLE exams. I started my residency a few months back in pediatrics.

Do you need to be spoonfed from the archives?

NO.

I have spoonfed more than you will ever know, sonny boy.

http://tinyurl.com/bzv89
http://tinyurl.com/afflg
http://tinyurl.com/cq26v
http://tinyurl.com/8qp8a

Do you even care...? Probably not I think.

You are not sure of what you think?

Interesting.

Do I have time to waste? Sure! It's a Saturday. I'm post-call so I
get a guaranteed 24hrs off from work!

I am afraid that doesn't fly, you seemed to have time to waste as I proved
with your other posts.

If you research science as well as you research people it's no wonder
you believe the things you do.

LOL!!!

I can see you pretty much fit right into the *GANG*.

Guess what Nicky, ole boy, this is NOT about *me*.

Oh yeah, why quote from an post I wrote about ribavarin?

As amusing as all this repartee is, you don't seem much more than a
troll right now. Having fun?

Newsflash.

Trolls don't stick around. I have been here since 1999.

I am good at spotting *organized medicine* brainwashed mumbo jumbo, and
those who get paid to do so.

Along with those who are EGO driven.

Cheers

Bennett

(cross-posting to MHA to avoid contamination - will cut other groups
next time)

Oh deara, you won't have time to post until next Saturday, so no need to
worry. *;*.

Run a long now sonny. See if others will fall for your jargon.

Toot A Lu,

Jan

"HCN" wrote in message
. ..

wrote in message
ups.com...
S'alright, I've replied to the other post you made about this.

Bloody Google doesn't make quotes always that obvious. At least,
that's my story and I'm sticking with it. Upon-re-reading the thread
it is clearer now I know who I should be reading!

I'll try to keep tabs on all the groups but I mostly monitor
misc.health.aids.

Cheers

Bennett


Hi,

I linked over to your report from Oracknows.

Poor, poor HCN.

Orac has been proven a BLATANT LIAR, right here on this newsgroups.

And, I KNOW HCN saw it.

Mark Probert posted it!!!

Newsgroups: sci.med, misc.health.alternative, uk.people.health,
talk.politics.medicine
From: Mark Probert - Find messages by
this author
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 18:51:29 -0500
Local: Sat, Dec 10 2005 6:51 pm
Subject: WARNING: Industry is Blogging These NewsGroups to
Maintain Their Monopolies
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse




- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

JanD wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...

JanD wrote:


The onus of proof is on those who claim that her program works.
Remember,
last year Hulda's Henchmen agreed that they could not prove her claims.


I see Mark is repeating this LIE.


He can NOT show where they did any such thing.


Because he made up this LIE.


http://tinyurl.com/cxbh5



ORAC'S LIES ARE ALL THERE FOR ALL TO SEE.

THAT'S ONLY ONE EXAMPLE!


Actually, Janny, that link takes you to this link:


http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/02230...tip0223051.pdf


which is the *stipulation*.


The word stipulation does nothing to prove your case or clear your lie.



It proves that they agreed that they could not prove her claims. After
they agreed to that, they also agreed to pay back the money and never
sell her junk with those claims ever again.

That is good enough for me.



It's no wonder, you were disbarred.




stip·u·late 1 (stpy-lt) KEY

VERB:
stip·u·lat·ed , stip·u·lat·ing , stip·u·lates
VERB: tr.


To lay down as a condition of an agreement; require by contract.
To specify or arrange in an agreement: stipulate a date of payment and a
price.
To guarantee or promise (something) in an agreement.


VERB:
intr.


To make an express demand or provision in an agreement.
To form an agreement.


Note the word "agreement".


Sorry, Janny, but you are still wrong.


NO, I am NOT wrong, YOU LIED.



No, you did not understand.


The word *quackery* is NOT used.


So what? I used it. What they agreed to was that they were making claims
that they could not substantiate, and that is quackery when it is in
medicine.


LIE #1.

In the US. is NOT listed.


LIE #2.


There was NO agreement that anyone could not prove any claim



Yes, there was. They were given the opportunity to prove the claims, and
when they could not, they agreed to stop making them, and give back the
money they took. While the precise words are not there, they did agree
that they could not prove their claims, BECAUSE IF THEY COULD, there was
NO reason to enter into the stipulation. They would have fully defended
the action brought by the FTC. When they didn't, they agreed.





LIE #3.

Furthermore.


That URL proved your buddy Orac LIED.


ORAC IS A LIAR.


TED Nidiffer LIED.


TED NIDIFFER IS A LIAR


Coleah joined in.


COLEAH IS A LIAR


THEY ALL DIVERTED.


THEY ARE ALL DESPICABLE LIARS, LIKE YOU


THE ONLY TWO HONEST PEOPLE IN THE THREAD WERE IIENA AND MYSELF.






I thought it was very
interesting. (and I did find some of your posts on the google archive of
misc.health.aids )

I did a check on www.amazon.com for Maggiore's book... and noticed that
SHE
has posted a review refuting the posts that claim her beliefs killed her
daughter. She claims they were getting an "independent" review of the
report. I am amused at what is considered "independent" from the "Alive
and
Well" group.... like members of its advisory board.

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 18:33:16 -0500, Mark Probert
wrote:

wrote:
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 10:55:49 -0500, Mark Probert
wrote:



Another problem I find with the *basics* of child development is
al-Bayati's claim:

"Eliza Jane’s weight measured prior to autopsy was 29 pounds which is at
the 10th percentile rank."

Using weight of 29 lbs. age 3y6m, but not her height and head
circumference (which are always reported in the actual autopsy) and
applying this limited information to:

http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/usefu...ercentiles.htm

we get:

At 36 months: your child is 29 pounds, and that is
at the 33th percentile for weight.

al-Bayati is off by a large margin.

I wonder why he did not include Eliza's height and head circumference in
this report?


Page 18 of the pdf document containing the autopsy report also shows 10th
percentile. I wonder what criteria they are using.

Ora


Exactly, I used a caclulator I found on the web. One is clearly wrong,
the other is clearly right.


The autopsy report stated 10th percentile. Al-Bayati's report stated 10th
percentile. Bennett's stated below 5th percentile. Your source shows 33rd
percentile.

My 'source' is from a calculator I found on About.com. They usually
offer some decent tools.

I found another one that only goes to 36 months. At that age:

Sex = girl
Age = 36 Months
Weight = 29.0 pounds


Based on the data you submitted, your child falls into the following
percentiles:

Weight = between 25th and 50th percentile

Still quite off of the "experts".

See the chart at http://z.about.com/d/pediatrics/1/0/...lstwoyears.gif and
look at the little numbers on the right side of the page to the left of the kg.
column.

Ora

[I'm limiting followups to misc.health.alternative]

wrote in news:1134268398.500433.232160
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:


JanD wrote:
I also note you seem to use the same posting host as Ted Nidiffer.

Road Runner
OrgID: RRNY
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US

Quite amazing.

Then when you speak of the UK, you seem to switch to NY.

SUNY Health and Science Center
OrgID: SHSC-1
Address: 750 East Adams Street
City: Syracuse
StateProv: NY
PostalCode: 13210
Country: US


My posting host? You mean RoadRunner from Time Warner Cable. Cripes.
I wonder how many thousands of people are using that one...

Jan refuses to understand that when large national ISPs register their
various points of presence (which are often unattended machines co-
located in telephone company facilities) they use the address for their
corporate headquarters rather than the address of the POP itself (since
nobody is collecting postal mail at the POP locations). Since both
RoadRunner and AOL are headquartered in Herndon, she automatically
assumes that anyone posting from either of their POPs must be an alias
for Ted Nidiffer. Another time she accused one poster of being another
based on the fact that they were both SBC users; again, SBC registers all
its locations with the corporate address. This has been pointed out to
her several times, yet she keeps doing it.

HCN wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
S'alright, I've replied to the other post you made about this.

Bloody Google doesn't make quotes always that obvious. At least,
that's my story and I'm sticking with it. Upon-re-reading the thread
it is clearer now I know who I should be reading!

I'll try to keep tabs on all the groups but I mostly monitor
misc.health.aids.

Cheers

Bennett


Hi,

I linked over to your report from Oracknows. I thought it was very
interesting. (and I did find some of your posts on the google archive of
misc.health.aids )

I did a check on www.amazon.com for Maggiore's book... and noticed that SHE
has posted a review refuting the posts that claim her beliefs killed her
daughter. She claims they were getting an "independent" review of the
report. I am amused at what is considered "independent" from the "Alive and
Well" group.... like members of its advisory board.

It's only a newspaper article, but I found these efforts being made to
save kids contracting HIV from their mothers, in conditions we in the
west probably can't imagine, rather moving:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/christmasa...664125,00.html

Sorta makes Alive and Well look a bit irrelevant and trivial.

Cathy

"cathyb" wrote in message
oups.com...

.... It's only a newspaper article, but I found these efforts being made to
save kids contracting HIV from their mothers, in conditions we in the
west probably can't imagine, rather moving:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/christmasa...664125,00.html

Sorta makes Alive and Well look a bit irrelevant and trivial.

Cathy


I saw something similar. The alumnus publication of where I graduated from
college (the type that usually have a "Give money to continue research"
message) had a story of its medical school's research in keeping children of
HIV+ women uninfected. It included a story of one woman who had been
homeless and drug addicted, but now was on the mend with custody of her
child (who was protected by the meds).

Alive and Well is not trivial in as much as Maggiore has claimed to convince
50 mothers to not protect their children.

"HCN" wrote in message
...

"cathyb" wrote in message
oups.com...

... It's only a newspaper article, but I found these efforts being made
to
save kids contracting HIV from their mothers, in conditions we in the
west probably can't imagine, rather moving:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/christmasa...664125,00.html

Sorta makes Alive and Well look a bit irrelevant and trivial.

Cathy


I saw something similar. The alumnus publication of where I graduated
from
college (the type that usually have a "Give money to continue research"
message) had a story of its medical school's research in keeping children
of
HIV+ women uninfected. It included a story of one woman who had been
homeless and drug addicted, but now was on the mend with custody of her
child (who was protected by the meds).

Alive and Well is not trivial in as much as Maggiore has claimed to
convince
50 mothers to not protect their children.

http://groups.msn.com/AliveandWellsu...urwebpage.msnw

Who We Are

Alive & Well AIDS Alternatives is a 501 (c) (3) non-profit support,
education and health advocacy network founded in 1995 by a group of HIV
positive diagnosed men and women. Our advisory board includes medical
doctors, scientists, attorneys, journalists, business professionals,
university professors, health experts and human rights leaders.

Alive & Well is not a philosophy, belief system or authoritarian
organization. We do not tell you what to think, how to live, or what to do.
Our mission is to inspire productive dialogue and vital research in order to
bring about healthy solutions to the global tragedy of AIDS. We encourage
independent thinking, responsible and respectful behavior, and healthy life
choices. We honor your right to make your own informed decisions regarding
HIV and AIDS.

Alive & Well does not promote conspiracy theories or cures or any
information not referenced from medical or scientific journals, government
publications, international health agencies, or recognized news sources. We
offer only verifiable data that can help you distinguish between fear and
facts.

What We Do

Most, if not all impartial scientific findings on AIDS contrast with
orthodox views and mainstream opinions. Based on this growing body of
scientific, medical, and epidemiological evidence, Alive & Well provides
information that raises questions about the accuracy of HIV tests, the
safety and effectiveness of AIDS drug treatment, and the validity of most
common assumptions about HIV and AIDS. Our mission is to open much needed
dialogue on HIV, to advocate for unprejudiced scientific research on AIDS,
to assist people in making truly informed decisions about their lives and
health, and to provide legal, medical and peer support for HIV positives
seeking immune-enhancing alternatives to toxic AIDS interventions.

Through our web site, book, films and community events, Alive & Well offers
a carefully researched presentation of medical and scientific facts on HIV
and AIDS unavailable through most orthodox AIDS organizations and unreported
by most media. Our free services include referrals to holistic healthcare
providers and legal assistance for HIV positives threatened with loss of
employment, insurance, child custody or human rights based on informed
decisions to decline toxic AIDS drugs.

Alive & Well works locally by sponsoring a yearly calendar of free community
events, and works globally by sharing our resources with individuals and
organizations throughout the world promoting open dialogue and informed
choice with regard to HIV, AIDS and health.

Unlike most AIDS organizations, Alive & Well does not solicit or accept
funding from the pharmaceutical industry, federal or local government, or
any entity that may limit public access to factual information on HIV, AIDS
and health. It's people like you that enable Alive & Well to share
life-affirming news and important facts about HIV and AIDS that open avenues
for healthy solutions.

This grassroots base of support enables us to operate without the conflicts
of interest that plague many established AIDS efforts. Being independent
keeps our efforts practical and dynamic with services shaped by the needs of
people dealing with real life issues of HIV and AIDS. To support our efforts
with tax-deductible donation, please click here.

How We Started

Founder/director Christine Maggiore tested HIV positive in 1992 and was
given five to seven years to live. In response to this dire prognosis, she
became a public speaker and educator for AIDS Project Los Angeles and LA
Shanti Foundation as well as a founding board member of Women at Risk. A
series of conflicting HIV test results in 1993 inspired questions about her
diagnosis as well as the AIDS information she taught and was teaching
others. A search for answers ultimately changed the direction of her public
service and inspired the creation of Alive & Well.

Since testing positive in 1992, Christine has lived without illness or AIDS
medications and is the mother of two exceptionally healthy children, both
born with no medical interventions.

About Our Web Site

The Alive & Well web site introduces scientific challenges to widely held
beliefs about HIV and AIDS and explains these in simple terms. You'll find
surprising facts and insights into why testing HIV positive is not a death
sentence or even a reliable indicator of infection with HIV, and discover
how unfounded estimates and unfulfilled predictions have shaped public
perception of AIDS.

The effects of our web site can be measured in the hundreds of messages we
receive each month from grateful people across the globe. The communications
arrive from almost everywhere and just about everyone: a Maasai village in
Kenya, a chiropractor's office in Connecticut, from HIV positives swearing
off and swearing by the drugs, from AIDS educators, HIV counselors, doctors
and nurses, journalists, students, and surviving partners, friends and
family of those passed on-all expressing appreciation for a new way to
understand AIDS.

We invite you to use the articles, information, references, and links at our
site to conduct your own investigation and arrive at your own conclusions
about HIV and AIDS. We also encourage you to send us your thoughts, ideas
and suggestions-your input is invaluable to our progress.

"JanD" wrote in message
news:HJ%mf.620515$_o.589625@attbi_s71...

"HCN" wrote in message
...

"cathyb" wrote in message
oups.com...

... It's only a newspaper article, but I found these efforts being made
to
save kids contracting HIV from their mothers, in conditions we in the
west probably can't imagine, rather moving:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/christmasa...664125,00.html

Sorta makes Alive and Well look a bit irrelevant and trivial.

Cathy


I saw something similar. The alumnus publication of where I graduated
from
college (the type that usually have a "Give money to continue research"
message) had a story of its medical school's research in keeping children
of
HIV+ women uninfected. It included a story of one woman who had been
homeless and drug addicted, but now was on the mend with custody of her
child (who was protected by the meds).

Alive and Well is not trivial in as much as Maggiore has claimed to
convince
50 mothers to not protect their children.

http://groups.msn.com/AliveandWellsu...urwebpage.msnw

Who We Are

Alive & Well AIDS Alternatives is a 501 (c) (3) non-profit support,
education and health advocacy network founded in 1995 by a group of HIV
positive diagnosed men and women. Our advisory board includes medical
doctors, scientists, attorneys, journalists, business professionals,
university professors, health experts and human rights leaders.

Alive & Well is not a philosophy, belief system or authoritarian
organization. We do not tell you what to think, how to live, or what to
do. Our mission is to inspire productive dialogue and vital research in
order to bring about healthy solutions to the global tragedy of AIDS. We
encourage independent thinking, responsible and respectful behavior, and
healthy life choices. We honor your right to make your own informed
decisions regarding HIV and AIDS.

Alive & Well does not promote conspiracy theories or cures or any
information not referenced from medical or scientific journals, government
publications, international health agencies, or recognized news sources.
We offer only verifiable data that can help you distinguish between fear
and facts.

What We Do

Most, if not all impartial scientific findings on AIDS contrast with
orthodox views and mainstream opinions. Based on this growing body of
scientific, medical, and epidemiological evidence, Alive & Well provides
information that raises questions about the accuracy of HIV tests, the
safety and effectiveness of AIDS drug treatment, and the validity of most
common assumptions about HIV and AIDS. Our mission is to open much needed
dialogue on HIV, to advocate for unprejudiced scientific research on AIDS,
to assist people in making truly informed decisions about their lives and
health, and to provide legal, medical and peer support for HIV positives
seeking immune-enhancing alternatives to toxic AIDS interventions.

Through our web site, book, films and community events, Alive & Well
offers a carefully researched presentation of medical and scientific facts
on HIV and AIDS unavailable through most orthodox AIDS organizations and
unreported by most media. Our free services include referrals to holistic
healthcare providers and legal assistance for HIV positives threatened
with loss of employment, insurance, child custody or human rights based on
informed decisions to decline toxic AIDS drugs.

Alive & Well works locally by sponsoring a yearly calendar of free
community events, and works globally by sharing our resources with
individuals and organizations throughout the world promoting open dialogue
and informed choice with regard to HIV, AIDS and health.

Unlike most AIDS organizations, Alive & Well does not solicit or accept
funding from the pharmaceutical industry, federal or local government, or
any entity that may limit public access to factual information on HIV,
AIDS and health. It's people like you that enable Alive & Well to share
life-affirming news and important facts about HIV and AIDS that open
avenues for healthy solutions.

This grassroots base of support enables us to operate without the
conflicts of interest that plague many established AIDS efforts. Being
independent keeps our efforts practical and dynamic with services shaped
by the needs of people dealing with real life issues of HIV and AIDS. To
support our efforts with tax-deductible donation, please click here.

How We Started

Founder/director Christine Maggiore tested HIV positive in 1992 and was
given five to seven years to live. In response to this dire prognosis, she
became a public speaker and educator for AIDS Project Los Angeles and LA
Shanti Foundation as well as a founding board member of Women at Risk. A
series of conflicting HIV test results in 1993 inspired questions about
her diagnosis as well as the AIDS information she taught and was teaching
others. A search for answers ultimately changed the direction of her
public service and inspired the creation of Alive & Well.

Since testing positive in 1992, Christine has lived without illness or
AIDS medications and is the mother of two exceptionally healthy children,
both born with no medical interventions.

About Our Web Site

The Alive & Well web site introduces scientific challenges to widely held
beliefs about HIV and AIDS and explains these in simple terms. You'll find
surprising facts and insights into why testing HIV positive is not a death
sentence or even a reliable indicator of infection with HIV, and discover
how unfounded estimates and unfulfilled predictions have shaped public
perception of AIDS.

The effects of our web site can be measured in the hundreds of messages we
receive each month from grateful people across the globe. The
communications arrive from almost everywhere and just about everyone: a
Maasai village in Kenya, a chiropractor's office in Connecticut, from HIV
positives swearing off and swearing by the drugs, from AIDS educators, HIV
counselors, doctors and nurses, journalists, students, and surviving
partners, friends and family of those passed on-all expressing
appreciation for a new way to understand AIDS.

We invite you to use the articles, information, references, and links at
our site to conduct your own investigation and arrive at your own
conclusions about HIV and AIDS. We also encourage you to send us your
thoughts, ideas and suggestions-your input is invaluable to our progress.



Yes, that explains their anti-science views, and why they would like to
delude themselves that little Eliza did not have AIDS.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/