Why Did "Aids Baby" Eliza Jane Really Die?

"JanD" wrote:

Do come back. Rich, AFTER, YOU have been given five to seven years to live.

Jan, I have an incurable disease. That would be about my life
expectancy if I did nothing about it and had no treatment. There are
treatments available for people with HIV, but Christine Maggiore chose
not to use them. In fact, she advises people not to be have treatment.
Put another way, she tells them to go home and die.
--
Peter Bowditch aa #2243
The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

"Peter Bowditch" wrote in message
...
"JanD" wrote:

Do come back. Rich, AFTER, YOU have been given five to seven years to
live.

Jan, I have an incurable disease. That would be about my life
expectancy if I did nothing about it and had no treatment. There are
treatments available for people with HIV, but Christine Maggiore chose
not to use them. In fact, she advises people not to be have treatment.
Put another way, she tells them to go home and die.
--

Yes, Jan has this pet theory that all of us skeptics will go leaping into
the arms of the alternative quacks as soon as we become ill with a disease
that conventional medicine cannot cure. Now she is defending a mother who
prefers denial to even alternative therapy; a mother who reports her
daughter is "exceptionally healthy" even though she is in the tenth
percentile of weight for her age and dying of AIDS. Jan does not realize
that rational people neither run to the quacks nor deny their illness when
they are diagnosed with serious disease. They collaberate with their doctors
to plan the best course of treatment and management of their disease, and
then get on with their lives.

Actually, it's the alties who change horses. Many people rely on their
chiropractors and naturopaths for treatment of their aches and pains and
colds, but when they get really sick they run right down to a real doctor to
get real medicine. But Jan will never let go of her fantasy that people seek
"alternative" treatment because conventional medicine has failed them.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/

JanD(eceitful) wrote:
"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...

JanD wrote:

wrote in message
egroups.com...


JanD wrote:


Uh huh.

Seems like you are rather good at making up stories.

Like:

Hello there. I am the Nick Bennett you are talking about. I am a long
time regular, or rather ex-regular to misc.health.aids. I have posted
here since the summer of 1998. Right now I'm working full-time in
medicine and my ability to track down and respond to dissident articles
is severly curtailed. I simply don't have the time...

I see you have time to waste and quite an EGO.

I also note you seem to use the same posting host as Ted Nidiffer.

Road Runner
OrgID: RRNY
Address: 13241 Woodland Park Road
City: Herndon
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 20171
Country: US

Quite amazing.

Then when you speak of the UK, you seem to switch to NY.

SUNY Health and Science Center
OrgID: SHSC-1
Address: 750 East Adams Street
City: Syracuse
StateProv: NY
PostalCode: 13210
Country: US


My posting host? You mean RoadRunner from Time Warner Cable. Cripes.
I wonder how many thousands of people are using that one...


From

Herndon
StateProv: VA

NOT that many.

Jan, take a look...see *RRNY*???? What do you think, a term I use loosely
with you, the NY stands for? I'll give you a hint, it does not stand for
Virginia.


Poor Mark

Is that the best response you can muster? You were wrong. Take a moment
and admit it to yourself.

Mark wrote:
Jan is a scientifically illiterate pest with a foul disposition and a
knee-jerk aversion to anyone who disagrees with her firmly held
beliefs.

If you **** her off, you can expect that she'll find out where you are
training and get in touch with your residency director to tattle.

Yes, JanD(ishonst) refuses to answer that burning question of whether
she ever contacted anyone outside of usenet regarding you.

JanD(eceitful) screams and yells when someone emails her, but, when she
does it, she remains silent.


So how are you liking RSV season as a pediatrics intern? It's been a
few years since I was in your shoes, but I still have nightmares

Take care. I liked your rebuttal.

Mark, MD (peds)

JanD wrote:
A long with:
Orac, Coleah and Ted Nidiffer.

Since JanD(ishonest) is incapable of rational discussion and writing her
own ideas, she has this obsessive need to trash, abuse, harass and stalk
anyone with whom she disagrees.


"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...

JanD wrote:

"HCN" wrote in message
om...


wrote in message
egroups.com...


S'alright, I've replied to the other post you made about this.

Bloody Google doesn't make quotes always that obvious. At least,
that's my story and I'm sticking with it. Upon-re-reading the thread
it is clearer now I know who I should be reading!

I'll try to keep tabs on all the groups but I mostly monitor
misc.health.aids.

Cheers

Bennett


Hi,

I linked over to your report from Oracknows.


Poor, poor HCN.

Orac has been proven a BLATANT LIAR, right here on this newsgroups.

Translation. Jan did not understand what Orac said, thus he is a liar.


Poor Mark

What Orac said was trying to cover for Mark.

In article ,
Ilena Rose wrote:




On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:57:00 -0500, "Mark Probert" Mark
wrote:


Where does it use the word "quackery" Quack Flack in Drag Marla Probert?



Where does it say that her products can not be sold in the US?




A better question is: Why are you posting and reposting the same damned
post over and over again?

JanD(ishonest) wrote:
"HCN" wrote in message
. ..

"cathyb" wrote in message
groups.com...

JanD wrote:

...snip....

Since testing positive in 1992, Christine has lived without illness or

AIDS

medications and is the mother of two exceptionally healthy children,

both

born with no medical interventions.


Poor Rosalind.

Gee... why does this look familiar? Oh, wait.. I know! I posted it a
almost a week ago! Check it out:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....e1e2810972d8c7



Obviously JanD dismissed it as a "lie", only to post it HERSELF!!!!!! (is
that enough exclamation marks?)

But when I posted I was called a "liar"...


OOOPPPPSSSS. Now, how do you suppose HCN would know that, since he claims to
have me killfiled?!?!

Maybe because HCN reads others posts who quote you. IIRC at one time you
claimed to have me and others killfiled, but you still responded to us
when others quoted us.

Imagine that...whining about what you yourself did....

As a matter of FACT, *I* did NOT call YOU a liar, HCN!!!!!! (is that enough
exclamation marks?)

NOW, who is lying?!?! (is that enough question marks + exclamation marks?)

until SHE posts it on Usenet... calling herself one of the of only two who
tell the truth....

Now, now, HCN, do tell the *whole* truth*

http://tinyurl.com/cxbh5

THE ONLY TWO HONEST PEOPLE IN THE THREAD WERE IIENA AND MYSELF.

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Ain't hypocrisy grand?


Ain't it awful when LIARS are caught!!!!

[snip Rosalind crap]

Perhaps HCN isn't aware, I don't read her crap.

One of the reasons I killfiled Jan Drew


(2222 funny, he claims too, and then claims, I called him a liar, of course
that was a made up LIE)

and Ilena Rose is because of this.

Ho hum.


For some reason Jan thinks that a child who is dead is "exceptionally
healthy".


What a load of crap.

[snip more of same]

cathyb wrote:
JanD wrote:

Another pile of dribble.

Can anyone remember the last time she posted anything on-topic, along
with an opinion of hers about that topic?

No? Just this endless crap calling other posters liars?

It's noted that she still hasn't managed to refute a single one of the
points made by Nick Bennet in his excellent analysis of al-Bayati's
incompetent and biased appraisal of poor Eliza Jane's autopsy.

I am beginning to beleive that JanD(eceitful) finds a need to personally
trash anyone with whom she disagrees because she does not have faith in
what she posts.

And indeed that she is repeatedly posting stuff from "Alive and Well"
that includes:

"Since testing positive in 1992, Christine has lived without illness or
AIDS medications and is the mother of two exceptionally healthy
children, both born with no medical interventions."

Despite the fact that one of those children tragically died of
AIDS-related pneumonia.

Perhaps she'd care to explain why, as HCN put it, she 'thinks that a
child who is dead is "exceptionally healthy"'.

Yes, a child whose size is decribed as being at the 10th percentile,
which means that 90% of the children her age are bigger, and the
emergency room physicians describe her as "fragile".

Furthermore, if al-Bayati is correct when he said this:

The weight of Eliza Jane’s lungs, heart, liver, and kidneys were 184%,
131%, 121%, and 146% of the expected average normal weight for
her age, respectively.

She was even smaller that one would expect at 3.5 years as a significant
part of her weight was made up of enlarged organs. She also had ascites,
which contributed to her weight.

Not since her daughter Eliza Jane tragically died of AIDS-related
pneumonia.


"HCN" wrote in message
m...

"cathyb" wrote in message
egroups.com...

JanD wrote:

...snip....

Since testing positive in 1992, Christine has lived without illness or

AIDS

medications and is the mother of two exceptionally healthy children,

both

born with no medical interventions.

Poor Rosalind.

Gee... why does this look familiar? Oh, wait.. I know! I posted it a
almost a week ago! Check it out:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....e1e2810972d8c7


Obviously JanD dismissed it as a "lie", only to post it HERSELF!!!!!! (is
that enough exclamation marks?)

But when I posted I was called a "liar"...

OOOPPPPSSSS. Now, how do you suppose HCN would know that, since he claims to
have me killfiled?!?!

As a matter of FACT, *I* did NOT call YOU a liar, HCN!!!!!! (is that enough
exclamation marks?)

NOW, who is lying?!?! (is that enough question marks + exclamation marks?)

until SHE posts it on Usenet... calling herself one of the of only two who
tell the truth....

Now, now, HCN, do tell the *whole* truth*

http://tinyurl.com/cxbh5

THE ONLY TWO HONEST PEOPLE IN THE THREAD WERE IIENA AND MYSELF.

Ain't hypocrisy grand?

Ain't it awful when LIARS are caught!!!!

[snip Rosalind crap]

Perhaps HCN isn't aware, I don't read her crap.

One of the reasons I killfiled Jan Drew

(2222 funny, he claims too, and then claims, I called him a liar, of course
that was a made up LIE)

and Ilena Rose is because of this.

Ho hum.


For some reason Jan thinks that a child who is dead is "exceptionally
healthy".

What a load of crap.

[snip more of same]

"Mark Probert" wrote

[snip]

JanD wrote:
A long with:
Orac, Coleah and Ted Nidiffer.


"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...

JanD wrote:

"HCN" wrote in message
news:zaudnVSr6JJaFAbenZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@comcast. com...


wrote in message
legroups.com...


S'alright, I've replied to the other post you made about this.

Bloody Google doesn't make quotes always that obvious. At least,
that's my story and I'm sticking with it. Upon-re-reading the thread
it is clearer now I know who I should be reading!

I'll try to keep tabs on all the groups but I mostly monitor
misc.health.aids.

Cheers

Bennett


Hi,

I linked over to your report from Oracknows.


Poor, poor HCN.

Orac has been proven a BLATANT LIAR, right here on this newsgroups.

Translation. Jan did not understand what Orac said, thus he is a liar.


Poor Mark

What Orac said was trying to cover for Mark.

In article ,
Ilena Rose wrote:




On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 09:57:00 -0500, "Mark Probert" Mark
wrote:


Where does it use the word "quackery" Quack Flack in Drag Marla Probert?

NO ANSWER IS NOTED

Where does it say that her products can not be sold in the US?

NO ANSWER IS NOTED


A better question is: Why are you posting and reposting the same damned
post over and over again?

THE QIESTION IS WHY DID MARK LIE?

Orac

That.s most easy to understand, Orac Knew YOU had told TWO LIES, he didn't
want IIena to keep asking.


Next post by Orac:


In article ,
Ilena Rose wrote:



On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 19:40:33 -0500, Orac wrote:
A better question is: Why are you posting and reposting the same damned
post over and over again?
Disagree ...


Disagree all you want. It doesn't change the fact that you've been
making repetitive posts. Do I really need to list the Google references
to all you repetitive posts?


your Rag Tag Posse Buddy claimed that Dr Clark's products were banned from
being sold in the US and of course ... he lied and you backed him up as
always.


Who lied? Prove it.


God help your patients ... you are blind, deaf and dumb to anything that
doesn't suit the backers of your Ragtag Posse of Quacks.


YAWN I guess I'll return the favor of your same tired old attempts to
**** me off by questioning my ability as a surgeon:

God help the women you claim to advocate for. You are blind, deaf, and
dumb to anything that doesn't support your hatred of conventional
medicine.


That's easy to understand, Orac's diverting away from YOUR LIES and focusing
on IIena.


Next post by Orac:


WITH HELP FROM LIAR COLEAH, TED NIDIFFER & YOURSELF ALL DIVERTING TO IIENA


n article ,




- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

"Coleah" wrote:
"Nana Weedkiller" wrote in message
news:6zqxd.584$Y57.419@trnddc08...
"Ilena Rose" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 10:41:35 -0500, "Mark Probert" Mark
wrote:
G-d help you if you ever need a doctor who knows how to Google.
God knows I know lots and lots of doctors ... Google proficient and
otherwise ... They back my campaign against your Team of SLAPP suers
... and others aganst medical freedom.
Interesting comments, don't you think? Ilena admits that lots of doctors
back her campaign. Ilena admits that she has a campaign against a "Team"
and others. Given that Ilena has a long history associated with the
voodoo medicine world, one wonders ,,, how much are you being paid for
your campaign?
Well damn, here I thought Ilena was Director of the Humantics Foundation
devoted to educating and supporting women damaged by silicone breast
implants. So now she says she is focused on campaigning against others
who are against medical freedom? Does that compute to: If women want
implants they should have the medical freedom to do so?


Indeed. Ilena can't seem to give a straight answer to that question,
even if one puts the condition on it that the women are told all the
risks. She usually comes up with a cutesy answer to avoid a simple yes
or no.

===========



Jan, being the ever helpful elf, posted proof of that even before I said
it:



http://tinyurl.com/cxbh5


- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

And, I KNOW HCN saw it.


Mark Probert posted it!!!


Newsgroups: sci.med, misc.health.alternative, uk.people.health,
talk.politics.medicine From: Mark Probert
- Find messages by this author Date: Sat,
10 Dec 2005 18:51:29 -0500 Local: Sat, Dec 10 2005 6:51 pm Subject:
WARNING: Industry is Blogging These NewsGroups to Maintain Their
Monopolies Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message
| Show original | Report Abuse


JanD wrote:


"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...


JanD wrote:


The onus of proof is on those who claim that her program works.
Remember, last year Hulda's Henchmen agreed that they could not prove
her claims.


I see Mark is repeating this LIE.


He can NOT show where they did any such thing.


Because he made up this LIE.


http://tinyurl.com/cxbh5


ORAC'S LIES ARE ALL THERE FOR ALL TO SEE.


THAT'S ONLY ONE EXAMPLE!


Actually, Janny, that link takes you to this link:


http://www.ftc.gov/os/caselist/02230...tip0223051.pdf


which is the *stipulation*.


The word stipulation does nothing to prove your case or clear your lie.


It proves that they agreed that they could not prove her claims. After
they agreed to that, they also agreed to pay back the money and never
sell her junk with those claims ever again.


That is good enough for me.


It's no wonder, you were disbarred.


stip·u·late 1 (stpy-lt) KEY


VERB: stip·u·lat·ed , stip·u·lat·ing , stip·u·lates VERB: tr.


To lay down as a condition of an agreement; require by contract. To
specify or arrange in an agreement: stipulate a date of payment and a
price. To guarantee or promise (something) in an agreement.


VERB: intr.


To make an express demand or provision in an agreement. To form an
agreement.


Note the word "agreement".


Sorry, Janny, but you are still wrong.


NO, I am NOT wrong, YOU LIED.


No, you did not understand.


The word *quackery* is NOT used.


So what? I used it. What they agreed to was that they were making claims
that they could not substantiate, and that is quackery when it is in
medicine.


LIE #1.


In the US. is NOT listed.


LIE #2.


There was NO agreement that anyone could not prove any claim


Yes, there was. They were given the opportunity to prove the claims, and
when they could not, they agreed to stop making them, and give back the
money they took. While the precise words are not there, they did agree
that they could not prove their claims, BECAUSE IF THEY COULD, there was
NO reason to enter into the stipulation. They would have fully defended
the action brought by the FTC. When they didn't, they agreed.


LIE #3.


Furthermore.


That URL proved your buddy Orac LIED.


ORAC IS A LIAR.


TED Nidiffer LIED.


TED NIDIFFER IS A LIAR


Coleah joined in.


COLEAH IS A LIAR


THEY ALL DIVERTED.


THEY ARE ALL DESPICABLE LIARS, LIKE YOU


THE ONLY TWO HONEST PEOPLE IN THE THREAD WERE IIENA AND MYSELF.


I thought it was very


interesting. (and I did find some of your posts on the google archive of
misc.health.aids )


I did a check on www.amazon.com for Maggiore's book... and noticed that
SHE has posted a review refuting the posts that claim her beliefs killed
her daughter. She claims they were getting an "independent" review of
the report. I am amused at what is considered "independent" from the
"Alive and Well" group.... like members of its advisory board.

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
JanD(ishonest) wrote:
"HCN" wrote in message
. ..

"cathyb" wrote in message
egroups.com...

JanD wrote:

...snip....

Since testing positive in 1992, Christine has lived without illness or

AIDS

medications and is the mother of two exceptionally healthy children,

both

born with no medical interventions.


Poor Rosalind.

Gee... why does this look familiar? Oh, wait.. I know! I posted it a
almost a week ago! Check it out:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....e1e2810972d8c7



Obviously JanD dismissed it as a "lie", only to post it HERSELF!!!!!! (is
that enough exclamation marks?)

But when I posted I was called a "liar"...


OOOPPPPSSSS. Now, how do you suppose HCN would know that, since he claims
to have me killfiled?!?!

Maybe because HCN reads others posts who quote you.

NOT. OPEN MOUTH INSET FOOT

[spin]

As a matter of FACT, *I* did NOT call YOU a liar, HCN!!!!!! (is that
enough exclamation marks?)

NOW, who is lying?!?! (is that enough question marks + exclamation
marks?)

until SHE posts it on Usenet... calling herself one of the of only two
who tell the truth....

Now, now, HCN, do tell the *whole* truth*

http://tinyurl.com/cxbh5

THE ONLY TWO HONEST PEOPLE IN THE THREAD WERE IIENA AND MYSELF.



Ain't hypocrisy grand?


Ain't it awful when LIARS are caught!!!!

[snip Rosalind crap]

Perhaps HCN isn't aware, I don't read her crap.

One of the reasons I killfiled Jan Drew


(2222 funny, he claims too, and then claims, I called him a liar, of
course that was a made up LIE)

and Ilena Rose is because of this.

Ho hum.


For some reason Jan thinks that a child who is dead is "exceptionally
healthy".


What a load of crap.

[snip more of same]

"Mark Probert" wrote in message
...
cathyb wrote:
JanD wrote:

Another pile of dribble.

Rosalind can't stand the truth.

Can anyone remember the last time she

She,,,,,,,,,,, is NOT the subject!

[snip]


"HCN" wrote in message
om...

"cathyb" wrote in message
legroups.com...

JanD wrote:

...snip....

Since testing positive in 1992, Christine has lived without illness or

AIDS

medications and is the mother of two exceptionally healthy children,

both

born with no medical interventions.

Poor Rosalind.

Gee... why does this look familiar? Oh, wait.. I know! I posted it a
almost a week ago! Check it out:
http://groups.google.com/group/misc....e1e2810972d8c7


Obviously JanD dismissed it as a "lie", only to post it HERSELF!!!!!!
(is
that enough exclamation marks?)

But when I posted I was called a "liar"...

OOOPPPPSSSS. Now, how do you suppose HCN would know that, since he claims
to
have me killfiled?!?!

As a matter of FACT, *I* did NOT call YOU a liar, HCN!!!!!! (is that
enough
exclamation marks?)

NOW, who is lying?!?! (is that enough question marks + exclamation
marks?)

until SHE posts it on Usenet... calling herself one of the of only two
who
tell the truth....

Now, now, HCN, do tell the *whole* truth*

http://tinyurl.com/cxbh5

THE ONLY TWO HONEST PEOPLE IN THE THREAD WERE IIENA AND MYSELF.

Ain't hypocrisy grand?

Ain't it awful when LIARS are caught!!!!

[snip Rosalind crap]

Perhaps HCN isn't aware, I don't read her crap.

One of the reasons I killfiled Jan Drew

(2222 funny, he claims too, and then claims, I called him a liar, of
course
that was a made up LIE)

and Ilena Rose is because of this.

Ho hum.


For some reason Jan thinks that a child who is dead is "exceptionally
healthy".

What a load of crap.

[snip more of same]