Not so fast there

greegor?

0:-x

Yyyyawwwwwwnnnnnn!

"Doan" wrote in message
...
LOL! All your words are like a wilted figleaf. They
can't hide what
small modesty you have left.

Doan


On Thu, 12 May 2005, Mario Rodriguez wrote:

....

LaVonne:
You are against spanking.
But it's legal in all 50 US States.

Does your political "cause" justify the many situations
where caseworkers can't "get" parents for spanking
so they lie and accuse them of other things?

Where are your ethics on that?

The VAST majority of citizens in this country are
in FAVOR of spanking being legal.

Would you foist a law on US citizens that goes
completely against the will of the people?

Do you think your BS ""expertise"" trumps the
will of the people?

Come on, LaVonne, your position on this is such
a minority as to be virtually nonexistant!

Can you say "Kook Left"?
Left of the left in the Land O Humphrey?
That's pretty freaking LOONY!

But ya got one or two stooges so you think you're
a ""movement""! (not!)

Respond if you're not too busy ""Lecturing""!

Greegor wrote:
LaVonne:
You are against spanking.
But it's legal in all 50 US States.

Slavery was, as was the subjugation of women, and the working of
children in the mines and factories in leiu of school. It used to be
legal to challenge you to a duel and kill you. It used to be you could
beat a horse to death and only have the disgust of your neighbors.
Which laws do you want and which not based on your own biases, greegor?


That is "political" thinking, greegor...yours.

Does your political "cause" justify the many situations
where caseworkers can't "get" parents for spanking
so they lie and accuse them of other things?

What has that to do with this issue in this ng except for your blatant
attempt to harrass rather than debate?

Where are your ethics on that?

Where are yours? Why do you lie? What has harrassing someone about an
issue they have not addressed one way or the other got to do with
debate?

The VAST majority of citizens in this country are
in FAVOR of spanking being legal.

Wrong. A majority, but not a vast one. And you have no way of knowing
one way or the other, and neither do I.

How many pro spanking organizations are there? How many anti spanking
ones?

Would you foist a law on US citizens that goes
completely against the will of the people?

Yes. We have. It is morally right to do so, even in the face of massive
resistence, or even passive compliance. Would you have supported a move
by germans to put down Hitler and his gang through laws? They would at
some point in his and their reign been very much gone "completely
against the will of the people."

Do you think your BS ""expertise"" trumps the
will of the people?

Actually, her expertise is not bull****, your ignorance is.

Studying how children develop is not bull****, greegor, though we can
see, from your posted history with children and life, that you would
think it so.

Come on, LaVonne, your position on this is such
a minority as to be virtually nonexistant!

And you can prove this how?

Let's take a look at how the public is actually viewing this spanking
issue, shall we:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin2.htm

"Status:
bullet As of 2003-APR-15, 27 states in the U.S. have banned corporal
punishments in schools. An anti-spanking bill awaits the Governor's
signature in Delaware."

Opps! There goes your "vast majority." Sorry 'bout that.

And this is through the legal process of legislation. Politics. Enjoy
0:-
And interestingly in a time of a strong swing to conservatism in
politics too. How paradoxical, or can it be that political
conservatives, and moderate republicans, such as myself, can be
conservative AND humane and decent human beings?

Can you say "Kook Left"?

Can you say, "greegor is a nutcase, and a brute toward children?"

Left of the left in the Land O Humphrey?
That's pretty freaking LOONY!

Your vile harassing attacks are duly noted as the behavior of a loony
kook.

But ya got one or two stooges so you think you're
a ""movement""! (not!)

One or two?

"http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin2.htm"

"Status:
bullet As of 2003-APR-15, 27 states in the U.S. have banned corporal
punishments in schools. An anti-spanking bill awaits the Governor's
signature in Delaware."

Respond if you're not too busy ""Lecturing""!

Respond to what? Your mindless drivel and vicious attacks against
someone with the education and knowledge you lack?

Why?

Here, greegor, to show what an ignorant fool you are, incapable of
mounting an argument unless you avoid facts, are the ones that show the
progress you try to deny...by your claim that LaVonne is virtually
alone in her position on CP:

Looking at the broader picture of state sanctioned violence, we see
that it is gradually decreasing. In the past:



- Slave-owners could whip slaves. This was theoretically abolished in
the U.S. at the end of the Civil War.


- Masters could whip indentured servants.


- Husbands could beat wives with little chance of being arrested;
this immunity has been recently reduced in most areas of North America.


- The public could commit violence against people found guilty and
held captive in a pillory. This was abolished in most US states by
1839; in 1905. Delaware was the last state to eliminate stocks.


- Jail guards could cane or whip prisoners. The last flogging in
Britain was in 1967; in the U.S. it was in 1952, also in Delaware --
apparently a very violent state.


- Ship officers could flog sailors until the practice was abolished
by the US Senate in 1850; it was banned in Britain in 1957.


- Boxers were expected to beat each other senseless, often to the
point of causing brain damage.


- Parents and guardians could use corporal punishment on their
children.


- School teachers could use corporal punishment on their students.
Laws were passed to abolished spanking in British state-run schools in
1986, and in privately funded schools in 1998. It is still permitted in
some states of the U.S.

In 1996, only the last three categories are still legal in North
America. And the degree of violence is in decline:


- The use of violence against students in US public schools dropped
from 1.4 million students in 1981 to 500,000 in 1991.


- The Boston-based national Coalition of Advocates for Students found
that in the late 1980s, 5.22% black schoolchildren and 2.28% of white
students were spanked annually. 11


- Status of corporal punishment in U.S. public schools:


- In 1999-AUG, 27 states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico
banned corporal punishment in their school systems. 1 25 states
permitted the beating of students.


- By the year 2000, 23 states -- mostly in the South -- continued to
allow their students to be beaten: AL, AZ, AR, CO, DE, FL, GA, ID, IN,
KS, KY, LA, MS, MO, NM, NC, OH, OK, PA, SC, TN, TX, WY. It is still
legal in Rhode Island, but is banned by each of the public school
districts in the state. 2


- By 2003-FEB, 23 "spanking" states remained. A bill to ban corporal
punishment in Wyoming died in the Senate with a 15-15 tie vote. Bills
to outlaw the beating of students are currently active in four other
states.


- By 2003-APR-1, bill SB15, which bans paddling and other forms of
physical punishment of students in public schools, passed by a healthy
margin in the Delaware Senate (14 to 7) and House (22 to 16). Governor
Ruth Ann Minner signed the bill into law in 2003-APR. 9,10


- As of 2003-APR-15, there was active discussion in Pennsylvania and
Missouri to ban corporal punishment of students in those states. 9


- During the 1997-8 school year, 49,859 students (10.1%) were
punished in Mississippi; 40,811 (9.2) in Arkansas, and 45,811 (6.3%) in
Alabama. All of the other states punished fewer than 5% of their
students. 6


- A survey of U.S. parents shows a drop in the use of spanking as the
main disciplinary method from 59% in 1962 to 19% in 1993. Parents now
prefer using time-outs (38%) and lecturing (24%)."

Gee, that last one is such a killer. I almost feel sorry for you...but
then I know the lengths a narcissist will go to for attention, up to
and including making a complete ass of himself for it, and then easily
dismiss the exposure and RUN RUN RUN...little rabbit.

So, instead of harassing LaVonne, why don't you and I talk a bit...say
about the facts above, and more importantly, the very serious issue of
where you stand on the right of parents to attack govenment agents with
guns, using lethal force to take their children from state custody?

So, do you defend their "right" to do this? And what degree and kind of
lethal force do you consider the limit? Say blowing up CPS offices? Or
putting poison, say, dioxin, in worker's drinks at meetings. Or using
C4 to blow up their cars with them in them? Or just a gun to their head
and pull the trigger?

All of these were defended and even in some instances, threatened in
ascps, and I asked your view on this subject, and you seem to have run,
rather than answered.

So, are you in favor of such things, and do you support a right for
parents to use such lethal force?

Tell us what you think about this, this factual list of things I've
asked you, that do exist in that newsgroup, that you keep trying to lie
about and deny their existence.

Or would you prefer to discuss the facts I've uncovered HERE that you
were mistaken about?

Or would you rather, as usual, prefer to run? And get your attention
some other way?

0:-

Getting kind of lonely are you greg? Can't get anyone
to argue with you that you think you can beat? You
can't beat LaVonne; you don't have the ability to beat
anyone but yourself, I don't think. When you can't
push, pull, insult, or otherwise control you drop to
full-trollish behavior, don't you? That's obvious in
so many places on the net... Gets a little lonely
sometimes doesn't it? I hope it's eating at you; you
deserve it. As with all good antisocial psychopathic
trolls like you, most will ignore them. I do too,
unless I think I can get the occasional smile or even
an lol for me, from them. You won't go away, so
instead I choose to see what kind of entertainment you
are. You're lots of entertainment. Glad I stopped by.
No one is REALLY paying any attention to you, you know.
You're nothing but a time passer for anyone that
responds to you. It's so easy and takes so little
time, too.




"Greegor" wrote in message
oups.com...
LaVonne:
You are against spanking.
But it's legal in all 50 US States.

Does your political "cause" justify the many
situations
where caseworkers can't "get" parents for spanking
so they lie and accuse them of other things?

Where are your ethics on that?

The VAST majority of citizens in this country are
in FAVOR of spanking being legal.

Would you foist a law on US citizens that goes
completely against the will of the people?

Do you think your BS ""expertise"" trumps the
will of the people?

Come on, LaVonne, your position on this is such
a minority as to be virtually nonexistant!

Can you say "Kook Left"?
Left of the left in the Land O Humphrey?
That's pretty freaking LOONY!

But ya got one or two stooges so you think you're
a ""movement""! (not!)

Respond if you're not too busy ""Lecturing""!

Greegor wrote:

LaVonne:
You are against spanking.
But it's legal in all 50 US States.

Yes, I am against spanking. Yes, spanking is legal in all 50 US States.

The VAST majority of citizens in this country are
in FAVOR of spanking being legal.

There was a time when the "VAST majority of citizens in this country"
were opposed to allowing women to vote. There was a time when the "VAST
majority of citizens in this country" viewed women as property of their
husbands or family if they had no husband and denied women the right to
own property. There was a time when the "VAST majority of citizens in
this country" thought states should have the right to import African
people and enslave them.

Would you foist a law on US citizens that goes
completely against the will of the people?

Absolutely! Changing laws change societal norms. Just as women were
given the right to vote and to own property, and African Americans were
given freedom, both against the will of the people, I believe children
should have the right to grow up without being legally assaulted by
their parents and in some states, school personnel.

Do you think your BS ""expertise"" trumps the
will of the people?

Absolutely! Read what I said above.

Come on, LaVonne, your position on this is such
a minority as to be virtually nonexistant!

This was true regarding regarding slavery and women's rights. Would you
have preferred slavery to remain legal, Black individuals be sold as
property, and Black families destroyed on the auction block, because it
was the "will of the people?"

Regarding my same question about women, I can most likely predict the
answer.

Can you say "Kook Left"?
Left of the left in the Land O Humphrey?
That's pretty freaking LOONY!

Can you debate without being engaging being personally derogatory? Most
people can't that have no debating position.

LaVonne

But ya got one or two stooges so you think you're
a ""movement""! (not!)

Respond if you're not too busy ""Lecturing""!

Forgive me, everyone on the ng. I can't resist this one (grin).

Greegor wrote:

LaVonne has lost patience with you.

With whom? Trolling for a response?

Have no fear though..

Fear of what?

Even though she would project herself as some
sort of superior parent, she is very likely
bitter, barren, manless and childless.

My girls are 22 and 25. I've been happily married for 22 years. I found
parenting to be the most rewarding and the most challenging thing I have
ever done. I learned early on from education, reading, and empathy for
my girls that I did not need to hit them in order to parent them.

Greegor, where is your wife and where are your children on holidays? Did
your daughter bring her boyfriend back to your house for a two week
Christmas break from college? Do you have another, older child, living
near you, that you took Christmas shopping and helped with her new
apartment?

This is hurtful stuff, and I think it's why you try so hard to be hurtful.

I have a great husband and two young women in my live that I never hit
when they were children. What do you have, greegor?

LaVonne

On Mon, 16 May 2005, Carlson LaVonne wrote:

Forgive me, everyone on the ng. I can't resist this one (grin).

Greegor wrote:

LaVonne has lost patience with you.

With whom? Trolling for a response?

I think he meant me. ;-) Remember me? I am the one who exposed the
lies of yours. I've even given Kane0 a chance to defend your honor
but he failed. So sad indeed! But don't take it out on him, just take
him for a walk by the electric pole. ;-)

Doan