Every child wanted

If you conceive a way to assure every child is wanted and loved you're a
genius. If you think that the family court would allow you to disseminate
that knowledge you're crazy.

There are two things, I think, that would change the current sad state of
affairs to something more equitable and just. In fact, because the change
would be so drastic these things have either been held back from serious
consideration or from serious research.

The first is mandatory DNA testing at birth. This is such a simple and
sensible approach to eliminating paternity fraud and is something that
because the primary potential beneficiaries would be men, is going to be
decades in the making. The idea of reducing options for women is so
politically incorrect that even the "best interests of the child" pale
before it.

The second, and in my opinion most important one, is the male birth
control pill. It has been decades supposedly in the making,(although it's
finally been done, and with 100% effectiveness, but we have yet to see it on
the market), but because it is 100% effective, it again has the potential to
reduce paternity fraud and takes an option away from women and gives it to
men. Men should be clamoring for the release of the pill.

I find it amusing when women say,(about men taking their pill), "I
wouldn't trust a man to take his pill. It's not like he would get pregnant".
No, only the woman has to go through all the physical changes that accompany
pregnancy and childbirth for about 9 months. And that's if they don't avail
themselves to the myriad of options open to women only. As things are a man
can only wait to see what the women is going to choose to see how it is
going to affect the rest of his life, not just 9 months.

And if women are truly concerned that a man couldn't be trusted to take the
pill this is not a bad thing, if it will keep women taking their own birth
control as well. Then what are the chances of an unwanted pregnancy? Just
think of it, what are the chances of a guy "oopsing" a woman? That women
"oops" men with an alarming frequency is a very sad fact. In fact I think
it's the idea of taking the responsibility for birth control out of women's
hands that is the biggest reason for the lack of male pills.

I believe that men would not just welcome male birth control pills, but
that they would embrace them with such enthusiasm that the pharmaceutical
companies would be hard pressed to keep up with demand at first. In fact, I
can see NOW and their ilk rallying against male birth control using the
argument that the birth rates are rapidly declining, (with 6 billion people
on this planet I wouldn't concern myself until it got down to oh say, 2
billion people). While anyone involved in the family courts would oppose it
based on the fact that they would begin to lose their cash cow of men paying
child support. The advent of the male birth control pill is so huge that
there will be repercussions radiating throughout every facet of the
government, the economy and even the social strata.

So when will we see male birth control pills or routine DNA testing? Two
approaches that are exquisite in their simplicity, but that benefit men
primarily. Only when women find a way to use them to their advantage.
Women not only have all the options before, during and after pregnancy but
perhaps they are holding up the future options as well?


~AZ~

Please post the source of your information about male birth control pills.
And please be specific.

Thanks.

Brad


"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
....

The second, and in my opinion most important one, is the male birth
control pill. It has been decades supposedly in the making,(although it's
finally been done, and with 100% effectiveness, but we have yet to see it
on
the market), but because it is 100% effective, it again has the potential
to
reduce paternity fraud and takes an option away from women and gives it to
men. Men should be clamoring for the release of the pill.
....

~AZ~

I'm getting mine tomorrow. I wouldn't trust a pill anyway, not on something
this important. Tomorrow I'm taking the day off to get my nuts chopped.
Scared to death, but more scared of going though this mess all over again.
For anyone that has looked into this, it's not a fun thing to go through.
The doc says it's not so bad, and he got snipped himself, but I don't care,
anytime you put a knife by the jewels, it can't be considered a happy time.
They make you shave too, so I'm sure the itching will creep in sometime next
week. My package looks like Dr. Phil's head.
I'll be sure to post the details tomorrow night to let you know how bad it
is, but I would be wary of the pills.

-Drew


"Brad" wrote in message
.. .
Please post the source of your information about male birth control pills.
And please be specific.

Thanks.

Brad


"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
...

The second, and in my opinion most important one, is the male birth
control pill. It has been decades supposedly in the making,(although
it's
finally been done, and with 100% effectiveness, but we have yet to see
it
on
the market), but because it is 100% effective, it again has the
potential
to
reduce paternity fraud and takes an option away from women and gives it
to
men. Men should be clamoring for the release of the pill.
...

~AZ~

The nutectomy will only keep you from getting someone pregnant. It won't
save you from a woman who names you as father of her child, but "doesn't
know where you are." The DA won't try to find you, and a default judgment
will be made against you. You'll get the tab after it's added up for a
while, and it will be too late for DNA. Have a nice day.

Brad

PS: Please don't post any images of your operation.


"Father Drew" wrote in message
news:%GPKa.172090$eJ2.107604@fed1read07...
I'm getting mine tomorrow. I wouldn't trust a pill anyway, not on
something
this important. Tomorrow I'm taking the day off to get my nuts chopped.
Scared to death, but more scared of going though this mess all over again.
For anyone that has looked into this, it's not a fun thing to go through.
The doc says it's not so bad, and he got snipped himself, but I don't
care,
anytime you put a knife by the jewels, it can't be considered a happy
time.
They make you shave too, so I'm sure the itching will creep in sometime
next
week. My package looks like Dr. Phil's head.
I'll be sure to post the details tomorrow night to let you know how bad it
is, but I would be wary of the pills.

-Drew


"Brad" wrote in message
.. .
Please post the source of your information about male birth control
pills.
And please be specific.

Thanks.

Brad


"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
...

The second, and in my opinion most important one, is the male birth
control pill. It has been decades supposedly in the making,(although
it's
finally been done, and with 100% effectiveness, but we have yet to see
it
on
the market), but because it is 100% effective, it again has the
potential
to
reduce paternity fraud and takes an option away from women and gives
it
to
men. Men should be clamoring for the release of the pill.
...

~AZ~

Hahaha, no images? I'll spare you the visuals Brad.
You are wrong about the DNA, at least in AZ. There is only a year to
contest if I remarry and a kid is born, but of course I would contest if I
was dumb enough to remarry, especially knowing my little walletts don't swim
anymore. As for a girlfriend getting pregnate, I would love to be brought
into court to fight it. The first step is paternity establishment.
Obviously I will pass that, then file for sanctions if I incurred any cost
for the DNA test, not to mention any time off from work, pain and suffering
ect. I'm not worried.

-Drew

"Brad" wrote in message
.. .
The nutectomy will only keep you from getting someone pregnant. It won't
save you from a woman who names you as father of her child, but "doesn't
know where you are." The DA won't try to find you, and a default judgment
will be made against you. You'll get the tab after it's added up for a
while, and it will be too late for DNA. Have a nice day.

Brad

PS: Please don't post any images of your operation.


"Father Drew" wrote in message
news:%GPKa.172090$eJ2.107604@fed1read07...
I'm getting mine tomorrow. I wouldn't trust a pill anyway, not on
something
this important. Tomorrow I'm taking the day off to get my nuts chopped.
Scared to death, but more scared of going though this mess all over
again.
For anyone that has looked into this, it's not a fun thing to go
through.
The doc says it's not so bad, and he got snipped himself, but I don't
care,
anytime you put a knife by the jewels, it can't be considered a happy
time.
They make you shave too, so I'm sure the itching will creep in sometime
next
week. My package looks like Dr. Phil's head.
I'll be sure to post the details tomorrow night to let you know how bad
it
is, but I would be wary of the pills.

-Drew


"Brad" wrote in message
.. .
Please post the source of your information about male birth control
pills.
And please be specific.

Thanks.

Brad


"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
...

The second, and in my opinion most important one, is the male
birth
control pill. It has been decades supposedly in the
making,(although
it's
finally been done, and with 100% effectiveness, but we have yet to
see
it
on
the market), but because it is 100% effective, it again has the
potential
to
reduce paternity fraud and takes an option away from women and gives
it
to
men. Men should be clamoring for the release of the pill.
...

~AZ~

AZ Astrea wrote:
If you conceive a way to assure every child is wanted and loved you're a
genius. If you think that the family court would allow you to disseminate
that knowledge you're crazy.

Your objective is good. I believe that family courts wouldn't necessarily
oppose your objective. But they would oppose specific measures which would
contribute to it, because they would not rate your objective as important as
other things. I'll go further below. By the way, I live in the UK, so what I
say may not apply elsewhere.

There are two things, I think, that would change the current sad state
of affairs to something more equitable and just. In fact, because the
change would be so drastic these things have either been held back from
serious consideration or from serious research.

The first is mandatory DNA testing at birth. This is such a simple and
sensible approach to eliminating paternity fraud and is something that
because the primary potential beneficiaries would be men, is going to be
decades in the making. The idea of reducing options for women is so
politically incorrect that even the "best interests of the child" pale
before it.

Currently I'm not convinced about mandatory testing. It sounds like state
intrusion into private morality, it might have significant cost, and might
deter some women from seeking suitable health care at birth - they might try
to "go it alone". But I don't have a rigid objection to this - I just feel
very uncomfortable with it.

I do favour ready access to home testing kits for paternity testing, including
motherless kits. Unfortunately, in the UK (and Australia) there are moves by
some politicians and others to ban such services and/or criminalise the use of
them without the mother's permission. (I started another thread on that
topic).

I have written 2 papers on the topic of paternity testing & eliminating
"surprising paternity", and submitted them to the UK's Human Genetics
Commission. They are available, both as online versions and Word versions, at
the following URL (look for "The Truth is out there" and "Knowledge is
bliss"):
http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.u...and_papers.htm

I have tried to make the case that it is ethically right for men & children to
be able to determine paternity without the mother being involved. Increasingly
courts are accepting (at least in the UK and Europe as a whole) that children
have the right to knowledge of their paternity, even if the mother doesn't
agree.

The second, and in my opinion most important one, is the male birth
control pill. It has been decades supposedly in the making,(although it's
finally been done, and with 100% effectiveness, but we have yet to see it
on the market), but because it is 100% effective, it again has the
potential to reduce paternity fraud and takes an option away from women
and gives it to men. Men should be clamoring for the release of the pill.
[snip]

This is an important site:
http://www.malecontraceptives.org/

I have a lot of discussion of the above topics, reached from:
http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.u...behaviours.htm
It includes links to surveys on whether women favour men having such
contraceptives. Many do, while others wouldn't trust men to use them but
wouldn't object. Few women say that men shouldn't have them - but perhaps some
women think that but just don't say it.

I believe that the so-called male pill has not reached the stage you claim. It
is a long way, for example, from being submitted to the FDA. But there are
other interesting possibilities. One is RISUG. It comes from India, where it
has passed its trials. The doctor who introduced scalpel-less vasectomies into
Canada wants to introduce this into Canada, but told me it would probably be 5
years or more.

I believe people should be lobbying hard for these next generation of male
contraceptives (all kinds). But I have also detected a backlash from some men,
who say the answer is not better contraception for men, it is C4M. I believe
there are those who believe that better male contracetives for men would
remove any last hope of C4M.

--
Barry Pearson
http://www.Barry.Pearson.name/photography/
http://www.ChildSupportAnalysis.co.uk/

Brad wrote:
Please post the source of your information about male birth control pills.
And please be specific.

I have a few pages on the topic at the following:

http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.u...n_overview.htm

http://tinyurl.com/feqy

This is an important site:
http://www.malecontraceptives.org/

"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
...
The second, and in my opinion most important one, is the male birth
control pill. It has been decades supposedly in the making,(although
it's finally been done, and with 100% effectiveness, but we have yet to
see it on the market), but because it is 100% effective, it again has
the potential to reduce paternity fraud and takes an option away from
women and gives it to men. Men should be clamoring for the release of
the pill.

--
Barry Pearson
http://www.Barry.Pearson.name/photography/
http://www.ChildSupportAnalysis.co.uk/

"Father Drew" wrote in message
news:%GPKa.172090$eJ2.107604@fed1read07...
I'm getting mine tomorrow. I wouldn't trust a pill anyway, not on
something
this important. Tomorrow I'm taking the day off to get my nuts chopped.
Scared to death, but more scared of going though this mess all over again.
For anyone that has looked into this, it's not a fun thing to go through.
The doc says it's not so bad, and he got snipped himself, but I don't
care,
anytime you put a knife by the jewels, it can't be considered a happy
time.
They make you shave too, so I'm sure the itching will creep in sometime
next
week. My package looks like Dr. Phil's head.
I'll be sure to post the details tomorrow night to let you know how bad it
is, but I would be wary of the pills.

-Drew

It ain't all that bad. There will likely be some bruising due to the
increased vascularity in that region and it may extend down your legs as
well (your scrotum *will* be purple, it's quite decorative, actually ).
The actual procedure is relatively painless, even the initial needle sticks
are well within my range of acceptable pains, and I hate shots. The only
caveat is that the doctor use ample anesthetic (mine didn't, but my
acquaintances assure me theirs did).
Take a movie home with you and try to sleep, as best you can with an iceberg
on your groin.
Of the men I've known having this procedure, one other and myself have had
some acute residual pains. Because it was always associated with the snipped
vas, the pain was in the abdominal cavity, not in the scrotum. (The vas
takes a long trip to the prostate).
Oh, and in case no one told you, you won't be sterile for several weeks due
to the accumulated sperm along the path from the actual cut in the vas to
the urethra. Get a sperm count done after about a month and yearly or
semi-annually, thereafter.
I've never regretted it after 12 years.
Phil #3



"Brad" wrote in message
.. .
Please post the source of your information about male birth control
pills.
And please be specific.

Thanks.

Brad


"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
...

The second, and in my opinion most important one, is the male birth
control pill. It has been decades supposedly in the making,(although
it's
finally been done, and with 100% effectiveness, but we have yet to see
it
on
the market), but because it is 100% effective, it again has the
potential
to
reduce paternity fraud and takes an option away from women and gives
it
to
men. Men should be clamoring for the release of the pill.
...

~AZ~

"Father Drew" wrote
I'm getting mine tomorrow. I wouldn't trust a pill
anyway, not on something this important. Tomorrow
I'm taking the day off to get my nuts chopped. Scared
to death, but more scared of going though this mess
all over again. For anyone that has looked into this,
it's not a fun thing to go through. The doc says it's not
so bad, and he got snipped himself, but I don't care,
anytime you put a knife by the jewels, it can't be
considered a happy time. They make you shave too,
so I'm sure the itching will creep in sometime next
week. My package looks like Dr. Phil's head.
I'll be sure to post the details tomorrow night to let
you know how bad it is, but I would be wary of the pills.

By the time you see this, it'll be done, but I can say it really isn't that
big of a deal. Yes, it's uncomfortable, but it doesn't hurt. I was sore
and moved slowly for about a day, but after that was fine.

"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...
If you conceive a way to assure every child is wanted and loved you're a
genius. If you think that the family court would allow you to disseminate
that knowledge you're crazy.


[snipped]

Mandatory DNA tests and the male birth control pill will *not* give every
child what they want. Even planned children are left out in the cold in
terms of love from their parents. If you really look at children which are
deprived of love from their parents - no matter if the lack of love is from
divorce or otherwise - those two items you mention will not solve nothing.
Determining *who* is the child's father won't guarantee to a child they will
be loved. Providing men a birth control pill won't guarantee to a child
they will be loved. The only way you can guarantee that love is to provide
a change of attitude overall - across all people. That is impossible.

Don't *use* children as an excuse to push for mandatory DNA testing and a
male birth control pill. Don't do what NOW, and other feminist-extremist,
has done. The current system is NOT for the child. The current system is
for the "parents". Adding more to it will not fix it... nor will it provide
any love for the child. Big deal - the child will know *who* daddy is, or
who daddy is not. It won't provide love.


Tracy
~~~~~~~
http://www.hornschuch.net/tracy/
"You can't solve problems with the same
type of thinking that created them."
Albert Einstein

*** spamguard in place! to email me: tracy at hornschuch dot net ***