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"Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 12th 03, 10:24 PM
KC
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!

For me ff was simpler because bf was:
1) Sit down
2) Plop out breast(s)?
3) switch breast
4) switch breast
5) switch breast
etc. alot for hours on end. Both my babies wanted to constantly for
hours on end be on the nipple because of supply issues. I gave up on
bf with my first and persevered with the help of domperidone with my
second.

while ff was:

1) pour water in bottle
2) put formula in bottle
3) shake
4) feed baby for max 15 min

Which required no refrigeration, microwave, pitcher, or measuring
cups. It did require a store :-)

I think it is my supply issues and inability to move while bf because
of large breasts which make it hard for my dd to keep her latch that
make me think bf is hard.

What I think it comes down to is YMMV. For someone who has a baby
that nurses every 2 hours for 10 minutes and can walk around during
that, and sleeps fine on their side at night and doesn't get mastitis
or have a bad latch, or a baby with a small mouth, bf the easier. For
people who don't worry about sterilizing bottles, give kids room temp
formula made with powder on the spot with a fast flow nipple, formula
feeding is a breeze. It is just different for different people in
different circumstances.

KC

dragonlady wrote in message news:mehouck- OK -- but how was that simpler than:

1) Sit down
2) Plop out breast(s)?

Which requires no refrigeration, microwave, store, pitcher, or measuring
cups?

(Again, I really am NOT trying to be difficult; I've heard people say
that bottles were simpler than breasts. Since my first was
bottle/formula fed after a few months, and my twins breastfed, I have
the comparison, and considered breast SO much simpler -- I'm just trying
to understand why, for some folks, the bottle is simpler.)

(And, yes, I understand that for many people bottle feeding is
necessary/desirable for reasons that have nothing to do with simplicity.)

meh

  #22  
Old July 12th 03, 10:47 PM
dragonlady
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!

In article ,
blacksalt wrote:

dragonlady wrote:

Well, heck, if they're going to include pumping for women who have to go
back to work, or who for some other reason are unable to nurse
comfortably, it IS more time consuming!


It is? I used a double pumper and could whip out my 7-9 oz. in 8 minutes
flat. However, to keep baby interested in me, daddy brought baby in to
my work2-3 times a day. *That* was time consuming. Getting up half an
hour early to feed him first thing, that was tiring. The pumping, which
I did for the weeks I worked overnight, was the easy part. I'm glad I
did it, but without a homeDaddy, it would have been durn tough.
As for the article, what do you expect from a magazine that uses such an
ungrammatical phrase for a title.
blacksalt


Good point.

For me, it wasn't the expressing while I was at work that bothered me;
I could do that pretty fast, too. It was expressing while watching my
baby cry because she was hungry but refusing to nurse, THEN giving her a
bottle -- somewhere along the line, it just stopped making sense!

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #23  
Old July 12th 03, 10:56 PM
toto
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 01:46:33 -0400, "Kara H"
wrote:

I have to say that this is a load of sh*t and I can't believe that anyone
would even think of calling breastfeeding a "time waster".


No kidding.

IMHO, it saves
time! No bottle prep time, you can feed the child ANYWHERE and not have to
wait for a place to warm the formula, etc. I'm glad that they included the
last statement. But I think that if they absolutely had to use this, they
could have AT LEAST worded it in a different way to make BF'ing mothers not
feel like what they are doing is unimportant. I think "some of the bonding"
is an understatement as BF is a *huge* bonding oportunity.

I breastfed both children. I think it not only saved time, but it
was so much easier than preparing bottles and carrying all kinds
of paraphanelia with me when I went out.

I could, put a couple of diapers and some wipes in my purse and
head off - no looking for stuff, no preparing bottles, just pack up
baby and off I went. Now, there are more ready mixed formulas
today, but the expense of that is the trade off and you still have to
go get the bottles out of the fridge, warm them up and be careful
about throwing out formula after feedings which is wasteful.

I do think mom's and dad's can bond with babies when they
feed bottles, though. I don't think we have to be so insistent
that someone who bottle feeds is a bad mom or won't bond.

Still, breastfeeding is best for both baby and mom, imo. I don't
know where this physician is coming from at all.

-Kara
(who hasn't even BF a child yet but is still a little peeved by this!)



--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits
  #24  
Old July 12th 03, 11:18 PM
Jarkat2002
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!

OK -- but how was that simpler than:

1) Sit down
2) Plop out breast(s)?


For SOME ppl it is that easy, but not everyone.

This is what BFing entails for me.

Rent a hospital grade pump.
See a multitude of lactation consultants and a myriad of LLL meetings also
multiple discussions w/ LLL leaders (even speaking w/ LLL leaders that have
experience w/ my BFing issues out of state and the country)
Store pumped milk
Fill a finger tube feeder.
Feed w/ finger tube.
Clean and sterilize all equipment.
Buy extra tubing.
Buy storage bags.

Buy nursing shields (several types to find what DD can handle)
Then ... after using the finger feeder it was off to buy a Supplemental Nursing
System.
Then train DD to use the SNS. (didn't work)
Clean all the parts, and sterilize.
Then after that didn't work very well, buy nipples and bottles and bags (I use
playtex bottles w/ the bags because the other 10 or so kinds of bottles and
nipples that we tried didn't work.) and fill w/ breast milk.
More pumping. More pumping. And more pumping.
I am sure I missed quite a few steps along explaining our BFing journey ... But
I'm sure you get the idea.
We are on opposite ends of the spectrum ... for you it has been extremely easy,
for me it has been extraordinarily difficult. Most people are somewhere
in-between and who is anyone else to make a judgment on the feeding choice that
a mother makes for her own child, self, and family.
A few days ago I was feeding DD at a restaurant. (DD gets formula as well as
breast milk at this time) A woman asked me "is that formula or breast milk?" I
said formula, she gave me a dirty look, shook her head, and turned her back to
me.
Bitch.
IF she only had any idea.
~Kat



Planet Claire has pink air
All the trees are red
No one ever dies there
No one has a head
  #25  
Old July 12th 03, 11:45 PM
Clisby Williams
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!



dragonlady wrote:

In article ,
Barbara Bomberger wrote:



On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:30:47 GMT, dragonlady
wrote:



Aside from everything else that's wrong with this, I can't, personally,
imagine that bottle feeding is LESS time consuming that breast feeding
-- assuming you aren't "propping" your baby, which is a bad idea anyway.
I know I visited households with twins the same age as mine who were
being bottle fed, and the amount of time devoted to mixing formula,
cleaning bottles, buying stuff, and, in one case, keeping the two
formulas seperate -- it just looked like a real time consuming effort
compared to plopping a breast (or two) out.


Well first of all, I didnt clean bottles. I used the replaceable bags
and had enough nipples to lst a long time.

Secondly (and this is a benefit, having done both), my younger
children could be held and fed by their dad, by me, by their ten year
old sister ..you get the drift.

I got much more sleep as a formula feeding parent, and much more free
time.

This is not a statement about the value of one kind of feeding over
the other, just a statement on my experience with the "time" factor.

Barb




I can definately see how formula and bottles would be a time saver and
simpler for the mother in a household with more adults (or older kids)
than babies; I know how much I enjoyed feeding my younger brother and
sister -- and if mom had nursed, I would not have had that particular
pleasure. I guess I was just thinking in terms of "person hours" --
the total time spent -- not just "mother hours".

meh



Yes. It's just like hiring a cleaning service makes life simpler for
me. Of course somebody
else is putting in the time cleaning - but the important factor is that
it ain't always me.

Clisby

  #26  
Old July 12th 03, 11:50 PM
Clisby Williams
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!



Nan wrote:

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 16:56:31 -0500, toto
wrote:




I breastfed both children. I think it not only saved time, but it
was so much easier than preparing bottles and carrying all kinds
of paraphanelia with me when I went out.



I've never understood the "all kinds of paraphanelia" comment, either.
I bf'd as well as bottlefed, and didn't find I had to tote all kinds
of anything when I went out.
2 bottles in my bag, and that was it.
Well, other than all the stuff *all* moms seem to need to tote....
diapers, wipes, etc in a diaper bag.



I don't get it either. I don't what people imagine you have to carry
around with
you. I always kept a couple of clean bottles and a couple of small
cans of
ready-to-feed formula in my backpack (I don't carry a purse or a diaper
bag -
everything I need goes in the backpack.) That was it for "all kinds of
paraphernalia."

Clisby




  #27  
Old July 12th 03, 11:57 PM
dragonlady
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!

In article ,
Clisby Williams wrote:

Banty wrote:

In article ,
says...


For me ff was simpler because bf was:
1) Sit down
2) Plop out breast(s)?
3) switch breast
4) switch breast
5) switch breast
etc. alot for hours on end. Both my babies wanted to constantly for
hours on end be on the nipple because of supply issues. I gave up on
bf with my first and persevered with the help of domperidone with my
second.

while ff was:

1) pour water in bottle
2) put formula in bottle
3) shake
4) feed baby for max 15 min

Which required no refrigeration, microwave, pitcher, or measuring
cups. It did require a store :-)



Yep.

I did both, and I think the perception varies on what the mother does and
considers relaxing. Also the milk supply and let down.

If it's feet up watching TV or sitting outside taking in the air and scenery
and
yammering on the phone to friends that mom loves, sitting and switching
breasts
is just the ticket.

If more active pursuits are what's satisfying and relaxing to mom, sitting
and
switching breasts for 1/2 hour or so can be really reaaally sloooooow. And
what's hard is what *else* has to be done with the time left over after
siiiiittting and leetting dooown and relllaaaaxxxing for a loooooong time.
(And
no - don't say "oh -doncha know you can let the housework go" - I got REAL
TIRED
OF the clutter and feeling allergic to boot in a dirty, cat-hair filled
house.)

I did nurse, but my experience of it was more like that latter. My
temprament
isn't one to sit day in day out and look at baby and TV and trees and grass
hours and yammer with whoever's hanging out hours in hours out day in day
out.
And I'm too heavy breasted to set up, hold baby in one arm, hold a paperback
in
the other.

Banty




Yep. And some of us don't get the side benefit of that supposed flow of
relaxing hormones during
nursing. I've nursed my son for 17 months, and the only hormonal side
effects I've felt have
been unpleasant (uterine contractions, and letdown.) Even once the
bad part was past, I've
seldom nursed him without thinking, "OK, honey, aren't you about through
now?"

Clisby


OK -- this makes sense. I'm the sort who'd rather sit in a corner
somewhere -- and managed to learn to nurse the twins while reading the
newspaper. Personally, I *liked* the feeling of letting down -- though
i could have passed on the uterine contractions!

I've always understood that for some people, nursing is a PIA: they may
have lactation problems, or a baby with a severe cleft pallatte or other
medical issues, or a baby who just can't seem to latch on, or baby with
neo-natal problems that meant they couldn't nurse for the first few
weeks or months, or they adopted, or they had to return to work, or for
some reason it made sense for someone else to be feeding the baby, or .
.. .

However, I guess I didn't understand that, for some people the sitting
down to nurse -- the time just sitting -- felt more like a chore, or at
least not pleasurable; since I'll use damned near ANY excuse to sit for
a while -- nursing (almost) never felt like a chore. (And I did enjoy
being able to tell other people, "Can you do the dishes? -- I have to
nurse the babies.")

Thanks for taking the time to put into words something I didn't really
"get" before.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  #28  
Old July 13th 03, 01:33 AM
Clisby Williams
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!



Stephanie and Tim wrote:

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...


In article ,
"The Ranger" wrote:



dragonlady asked in message
...
[snip]


but I can't figure out how formula and bottles could be
simpler than breastfeeding, [..]
Can you explain how it was simpler?


In our case it was as simple as:
1) Purchase multiple cases of concentrated liquid formula insert myriad


of


choices from Toys-R-Us (either at a B&M or on-line); store in pantry


until


needed. On our trip through TX, we were able to purchase pre-measured,
fully-mixed liquid formula where we swapped their lid for our bottle
nipples.
2) Get two cans from storage. Pop tops with can opener.
3) Pour both into pitcher; measure out appropriate amount of water.


Stir.


4) P(remeasure)our into all available bottles. Cap. Refrigerate.

During feeding the steps we
1) Grab two at a time from 'fridge, pop into microwave, nuke for 30


seconds,


shake, test.
2) Pop on nipple cap and pop into infants' mouths.

I remember feeding taking a maximum of 15 minutes for each child. (Spawn


was


a little more difficult because she was a lazy feeder and tended to try


to


nap.)

The Ranger




OK -- but how was that simpler than:

1) Sit down
2) Plop out breast(s)?

Which requires no refrigeration, microwave, store, pitcher, or measuring
cups?

(Again, I really am NOT trying to be difficult; I've heard people say
that bottles were simpler than breasts. Since my first was
bottle/formula fed after a few months, and my twins breastfed, I have
the comparison, and considered breast SO much simpler -- I'm just trying
to understand why, for some folks, the bottle is simpler.)

(And, yes, I understand that for many people bottle feeding is
necessary/desirable for reasons that have nothing to do with simplicity.)

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care




I thought Clisby's answer was pretty descriptive. Pumping is a drag. There
is nothing simple about it. Dad was home all day; she wasn't. And the
ability to share feeding can simplify things. Simple is in the eye of the
beholder if you ask me. Each family's organizational style is different.
Some people acheive efficiency by job sharing, some by stripping steps.

S





And just to be clear - I'm not advocating formula feeding. I wish I
had perservered
with breastfeeding my first child, and I'm glad I stuck with it for the
2nd. But there's
no question in my mind that formula feeding was *simpler*. It wasn't
better -
but it was easier.

Clisby

  #29  
Old July 13th 03, 02:21 AM
just me
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!


"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
For me, it wasn't the expressing while I was at work that bothered me;
I could do that pretty fast, too. It was expressing while watching my
baby cry because she was hungry but refusing to nurse, THEN giving her a
bottle -- somewhere along the line, it just stopped making sense!



The way I could get a decent amount expressed was to pump one side while
nursing the other. Husband brought DS to work to nurse during my lunch
break. It was very helpful and I really enjoyed the break from the office
to see them. I think, though, that the nursing would have been harder on me
if I had returned to work before the twelve week growth spurt because I
simply would not have been able to keep up, at least I think not.

This subject is clearly a YMMV area, though, and what worked for me may
well be the bane of someone else's existence.

-Aula


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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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  #30  
Old July 13th 03, 02:40 AM
dragonlady
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Default "Time Wasting Rules" - from Real Simple Magazine - NOT GOOD!

In article ,
"just me" wrote:

"dragonlady" wrote in message
...
For me, it wasn't the expressing while I was at work that bothered me;
I could do that pretty fast, too. It was expressing while watching my
baby cry because she was hungry but refusing to nurse, THEN giving her a
bottle -- somewhere along the line, it just stopped making sense!



The way I could get a decent amount expressed was to pump one side while
nursing the other. Husband brought DS to work to nurse during my lunch
break. It was very helpful and I really enjoyed the break from the office
to see them. I think, though, that the nursing would have been harder on me
if I had returned to work before the twelve week growth spurt because I
simply would not have been able to keep up, at least I think not.

This subject is clearly a YMMV area, though, and what worked for me may
well be the bane of someone else's existence.


I'd have been glad to keep on expressing milk (I don't say "pump"
because I found hand expressing easier and faster) -- but she wouldn't
nurse at all. She preferred the bottle, and would just cry and turn
away when offered the breast. So at some point (around 5 or 6 months, I
think) I just quit and switched to full time formula, just cutting down
the amount I expressed each day until there was none left. It seemed
simpler than expressing *and* always using a bottle, and I figured I'd
given her the early months of breast milk. I have a great deal of
admiration for those women who have to express milk and still use
bottles who continue for more than a few months! I know how important
it is, especially for premies, it just is very frustrating to do!

I suppose I could have tried to make her nurse by letting her get
extremely hungry -- but that never sounded like a Good Idea. (And with
the other two, they would never take to a bottle; again, I suppose I
could have forced the issue, but since I didn't have anyplace to go
where I wasn't taking them with me anyway, it didn't seem worth the
effort.)

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

 




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