Why are new cars missing car seat LATCH for rear middle seat????

Angi wrote in message . ..
On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 04:15:05 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Daniel J Stern wrote:

On 2 Nov 2003, Paula wrote:


I have been looking at SUVs and the only one I've seen that has a
middle seat LATCH anchor is the Saturn VUE. Does anyone else know if
other car manufacterers are including a middle seat LATCH anchor, or
is this the only one? This is really stupid


She's looking at SUVs instead of safer passenger cars, and bitching about
two child seat anchorages instead of three.

Sad. Not amazing or surprising, but sad. You have to have a licence to go
down to the lake and fish, but they'll let anyone who can figure out how
to fit tab "A" into slot "B" be a parent.

DS


What's even more sad is that she's posting from a .ca address. Is there
some kind of Canadian equivalent of CAFE that has killed off all the
decent cars there too? Or has the SUV craze just spread that far that
fast? (not that the VUE would last 5 minutes off road, anyway... at
least not if I were driving it...)

nate


You know, she could just not know. And she isn't going to learn if you
insist on being jerks. We're supposed to be here to support one
another, if that is not the case, maybe I should leave...

Angi

How could one "not know?" Does one not test drive these vehicles and
go "gee, this thing handles like a bobblehead?" Does one not read the
newspaper, watch TV, have any contact with the outside world? I'd
suspect a troll were it not for the fact that people continue to buy
these half-SUV, half-car abominations in astonishing numbers -
probably because all the good, large cars are long dead (moment of
silence, please) and, well, I really don't know why they're popular.
I apologize if I sound a little blunt, but this is a repetitive (and
pointless) discussion over here (RAD) - those who like cars and prefer
their safety in handling and performance flavors and those who prefer
their SUVs and live by crash test results and a general "safer feel"
don't seem to be able to find any common ground at all, and it's
generated endless threads that go nowhere (and I admit, I've been a
participant in a few and found myself biting my metaphorical tongue
for even more.)

In any case, I'd recommend against buying any Saturn product just
because of the fscking obnoxious DRLs. "Safety feature" my lower
alimentary canal. Could I interest the OP in a nice Subaru perhaps?

nate

--
http://www.toad.net/~njnagel

Uhh... Last time I checked all seatbelt latches in cars and trucks were
either firmly anchored to the frame or attached to the body with bolts and
sufficiently large washers. Seatbelts for all passengers have been
standard
since '68 on all autos IIRC.

Anyway, as otehrs have said, if you are looking for the safest possible
vehicle for your child you should be looking at full-size cars. They are
very safe in accidents, and also give you a much better ability to avoid
an
accident than a truck.

Cory


The LATCH system is a fairly new way to anchor child car seats to automobile
seats. It has nothing to do with seat belts. But the OP should try to find
a car seat (maybe used) that actually uses a seat belt, and belt it to the
middle of the seat. Problem solved? -Dave

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Dave C. wrote:

the OP should try to find a car seat (maybe used) that actually uses a
seat belt, and belt it to the middle of the seat. Problem solved?

No, problem *not* solved. Symptom addressed, but problem not solved.

The *problem* is that far too many stupid people are breeding. The
solution has nothing to do with car seats. By the time the stupid
contemplate car seat questions, it's far too late.

DS

"Paula" wrote in message
om...
| Hi - just wondering if anyone out there has a vehicle with the car
| seat LATCH in the middle seat? Seems like a lot of the auto
| manufacturers included a tether hook for the middle seat, but only put
| the LATCH anchors on the side seats.
|
| I think this is ridiculous!!!! Isn't it common knowledge that most
| parents seat their children in the middle seat because it's the safest
| position in the vehicle? What is the point of installing the LATCH
| anchors for two of three possible seats? I just don't understand it.
|
| I have been looking at SUVs and the only one I've seen that has a
| middle seat LATCH anchor is the Saturn VUE. Does anyone else know if
| other car manufacterers are including a middle seat LATCH anchor, or
| is this the only one? This is really stupid, because I've heard
| stories of some people incorrectly using the side anchors to secure a
| child seat in the middle seat position!
|
| I've heard that some dealers may install a LATCH anchor for you if you
| ask (perhaps at a charge). Is this true? I know they will install
| tether hooks, but I've never heard of a LATCH achor. Can someone
| confirm that they have successfully done this and how much it was?
|
| Thanks!
| Paula

Dodge Stratus Sedan/Chrysler Sebring Sedan
Chevy Malibu

Both have the car seat latch mechanisms for the center backseat
position...at least in the USA...

Dave C. wrote:
||| Uhh... Last time I checked all seatbelt latches in cars and trucks
||| were either firmly anchored to the frame or attached to the body
||| with bolts and sufficiently large washers. Seatbelts for all
||| passengers have been standard since '68 on all autos IIRC.
|||
||| Anyway, as otehrs have said, if you are looking for the safest
||| possible vehicle for your child you should be looking at full-size
||| cars. They are very safe in accidents, and also give you a much
||| better ability to avoid an accident than a truck.
|||
||| Cory
|||
||
|| The LATCH system is a fairly new way to anchor child car seats to
|| automobile seats. It has nothing to do with seat belts. But the OP
|| should try to find a car seat (maybe used) that actually uses a seat
|| belt, and belt it to the middle of the seat. Problem solved? -Dave

Nope needs a seatbelt that's properly anchored in the car and a teether
anchor.

OP -Solving the problem would be simply using one of the side latches or
getting a middle seat belt installed. Perhaps the car manufactures are
trying to steer families away from SUVs. IMO far too many unskilled drivers
are buying SUVs anyhow. --?

Jenn
-WAHM
-DS Feb'02
-DD Feb'97
-Jellybean due June 25/04

"Fer" wrote in message
news:37Gpb.286820$9l5.179360@pd7tw2no...
Dave C. wrote:
||| Uhh... Last time I checked all seatbelt latches in cars and trucks
||| were either firmly anchored to the frame or attached to the body
||| with bolts and sufficiently large washers. Seatbelts for all
||| passengers have been standard since '68 on all autos IIRC.
|||
||| Anyway, as otehrs have said, if you are looking for the safest
||| possible vehicle for your child you should be looking at full-size
||| cars. They are very safe in accidents, and also give you a much
||| better ability to avoid an accident than a truck.
|||
||| Cory
|||
||
|| The LATCH system is a fairly new way to anchor child car seats to
|| automobile seats. It has nothing to do with seat belts. But the OP
|| should try to find a car seat (maybe used) that actually uses a seat
|| belt, and belt it to the middle of the seat. Problem solved? -Dave

Nope needs a seatbelt that's properly anchored in the car and a teether
anchor.

Perhaps you missed where I said that since the late '60s all cars have been
federally mandated to have at least a lap belt for all passengers and
shoulder belts for the driver and front side passenger. Yes, all these
seatbelts are properly anchored to either the frame or body. In my '68 my
uncle put his daughter in a carseat in the middle of the back seat. It's the
safest location and in a '68 Galaxie 500 (sull-size car with a full frame).
Also, that car is probably one of the safest cars for a child to be in a
carseat in, and also is much more capable of collision avoidance than any
SUV or truck. The seatbelts are anchored to various parts of the car and
will sooner rip/tear/chew/break through you than come loose and let you
loose inside the passenger compartment. The carseat isn't gonig anywhere...
The child would sooner be in danger from excessive g-forces than from a
seatbelt failing.

Cory

"Cory Dunkle" wrote in message
...
(snip)
The seatbelts are anchored to various parts of the car and
will sooner rip/tear/chew/break through you than come loose and let you
loose inside the passenger compartment. The carseat isn't gonig
anywhere...
The child would sooner be in danger from excessive g-forces than from a
seatbelt failing.


I hate to keep replying to an x-posted topic, but the fact is (and you RAD
readers should be aware of this as well) that while seatbelts don't fail,
child seat installations do, and often. In order for the child seat to
perform within its specifications, it must be angled correctly AND must be
installed incredibly tightly, with almost no ability to move either
front-to-back or side-to-side. Trying to move the childseat laterally (from
side to side) should rock the car before it moves the seat. Getting it this
tight with just a seatbelt involves both correct seat selection (the angle
of the bench often doesn't equal the angle of the carseat base, allowing
unacceptable movement), using levelers and pool noodles to get a tight
enough fit, and a lengthy process of pressing down the seat into the bench
(most of us kneel in it) to get optimum tension on the seatbelt straps.
Seatbelts that are not of the locking type also need lockoff clips.

If either of these requirements (angle and tightness) are not met, the child
will not be protected by the seat, and about 80% of all parent-installed
seats don't meet these requirements. That's the whole reason for the new
LATCH system--it allows parents to have an automatically correct method for
installing their seats, giving a much better chance that the baby or child
will be protected in a crash. It's also easier on the car--getting a
seatbelt tight enough that there is no lateral movement means that the seat
"feet" will be constantly pressed into the bench; this can destroy leather
and vinyl and will leave permanent impressions on fabric. Since the LATCH
system relies on its own rigidity to prevent lateral movement, the carseat
does not have to be pressed down as hard.

Telling a parent that using a seatbelt is just as good as the LATCH system
is misleading. IF the seatbelt is absolutely correctly used with the
childseat (and again, very, very few are) it offers good protection, but
LATCH makes this a fairly foolproof process. The really ideal system is a
combination of LATCH and tether anchors (which are often skimped on in the
middle rear position, like LATCH), allowing minimal excursion of the carseat
during any type of crash.

--
Joanna
Meriwether, 6
Honour, 5
EDD 5/4/04

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:14:19 GMT, "Cory Dunkle"
wrote:

Perhaps you missed where I said that since the late '60s all cars have been
federally mandated to have at least a lap belt for all passengers and
shoulder belts for the driver and front side passenger. Yes, all these
seatbelts are properly anchored to either the frame or body. In my '68 my
uncle put his daughter in a carseat in the middle of the back seat. It's the
safest location and in a '68 Galaxie 500 (sull-size car with a full frame).
Also, that car is probably one of the safest cars for a child to be in a
carseat in, and also is much more capable of collision avoidance than any
SUV or truck. The seatbelts are anchored to various parts of the car and
will sooner rip/tear/chew/break through you than come loose and let you
loose inside the passenger compartment. The carseat isn't gonig anywhere...
The child would sooner be in danger from excessive g-forces than from a
seatbelt failing.

But what *you* missed was that the OP specified the LATCH system,
which means Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren. It's a new
standard that's supposed to make car seats idiot proof, since IIRC
about 80% of them are not installed correctly.
--
Brandon Sommerville
remove ".gov" to e-mail

Definition of "Lottery":
Millions of stupid people contributing
to make one stupid person look smart.

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:23:56 -0500, "James C. Reeves"
wrote:

Dodge Stratus Sedan/Chrysler Sebring Sedan
Chevy Malibu

Both have the car seat latch mechanisms for the center backseat
position...at least in the USA...

But they may not fit all car seats. The most important thing to do is
to *test* the various combinations before actually buying anything.
--
Brandon Sommerville
remove ".gov" to e-mail

Definition of "Lottery":
Millions of stupid people contributing
to make one stupid person look smart.

"Brandon Sommerville" wrote in message
s.com...
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 05:14:19 GMT, "Cory Dunkle"
wrote:

Perhaps you missed where I said that since the late '60s all cars have
been
federally mandated to have at least a lap belt for all passengers and
shoulder belts for the driver and front side passenger. Yes, all these
seatbelts are properly anchored to either the frame or body. In my '68 my
uncle put his daughter in a carseat in the middle of the back seat. It's
the
safest location and in a '68 Galaxie 500 (sull-size car with a full
frame).
Also, that car is probably one of the safest cars for a child to be in a
carseat in, and also is much more capable of collision avoidance than any
SUV or truck. The seatbelts are anchored to various parts of the car and
will sooner rip/tear/chew/break through you than come loose and let you
loose inside the passenger compartment. The carseat isn't gonig
anywhere...
The child would sooner be in danger from excessive g-forces than from a
seatbelt failing.

But what *you* missed was that the OP specified the LATCH system,
which means Lower Anchors and Tethers for CHildren. It's a new
standard that's supposed to make car seats idiot proof, since IIRC
about 80% of them are not installed correctly.

The person I replied to said


"Nope needs a seatbelt that's properly anchored in the car and a teether
anchor.

OP -Solving the problem would be simply using one of the side latches or
getting a middle seat belt installed."


Far was talking about plain old seatbelts being properly anchored.

My point was that traditional car seats restrained with seatbelts work
fine... There's nothing wrong with them. The error is not in how they are
'attached' to the car, but with people who don't take the time to ensure it
is installed in the car properly. No matter how idiot-proof you make
something there will always be a bigger idiot.

Cory