I was afraid it would come to this...

Shannon and Joe was all, like:
Is your day care feeding him too much? Many times centers prompt
babies to empty a bottle, or feed on a strick # of oz per hour, and
actually feed the baby more than he needs. Is there any way you can
assess this?

I don't believe they're overfeeding him...after some back and forth, where
it seemed that they were scheduling his feedings, I don't believe they're
doing this any more (more because Sprogly's wasn't putting up with it than
for any other reason). I also don't believe they're wasting any.

When I was feeling a little behind the 8-ball pumping wise, I would
try to sneak in some extra pumpings on the weekends. After DS went to
bed for the evening, I would pump as much as I could, and pop it into
the freezer or fridge. By the time he woke up during the night, my
body would have re-filled itself satisfactorily.

I'm pretty maxed out on pumping during the week...and haven't been able to
get him to sleep without me at night (which may become a problem at some
point, but since I need as much sleep as I can get, right now it works out).
I may try to fit in another pumping session in the weekend.

It's extra work, but there's an end in sight. When your sprogly
starts on solids, he will need less milk, so the burden on you will
be lightened, even though he still nurses.

And, if it comes down to it, formula was invented for those who could
not feed their infants. If you are not producing enough mother's
milk, then some formula to get him through the day will not hurt him,
because the bulk of his nourishment will still come from you.

You're doing great. Just keep on!

Thanks...

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m
http://NewsReader.Com/

AskeyKO was all, like:
Has anyone else reached this point? How do I wrap my mind around
giving him formula after all I've been doing?

I feel for you b/c I've been there. It was very hard for me. I
cried in WalMart when my husband called and said I needed to bring
home formula. We'd gone through my freezer stash and 16 oz of donor
milk and I just could not keep up any longer.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It makes it a tiny bit easier, when so
many people (including Bloke) shrug it off as no big deal. It is to me.

It has been a downward spiral, or course. Now Baby Joey has about
75% formula and 25% breastmilk. I just don't have the will to sit at
the pump endlessly every day now, and I did feel pretty defeatist
once that first ounce of formula hit his tummy. I felt like I should
throw in the towel immediately and just give him 100% formula from
then on (which I knew was way over the top).

I worry about that spiral, myself. It takes a certain amount of willpower to
keep going up to the nurse's office every day to pump. (Today I had to evict
someone from the room...she was an older lady, and she seemed confused when
I told her that my breast pump was in the room...) Blah. Plus it kills what
little spare time I have in the day, unless it's slow, as it is today.

If you do come to the point where you have to supplement, it is OK.
That is the good side to formula--that we DO have a choice and can
utilize it when we are not able to give breastmilk.

I've come to view formula this way--as an alternative to keep the baby from
going hungry when there has been some kind of failure (so it's hard not to
view it as *my* failure). I guess I'm surprised that my feelings about it
are so strong. We're doing some work for a formula company at the ad agency
where I work...working on all these images of babies and motherhood...it's
depressing me a bit.

And it also made me feel better that for a long time, *I* was not the
one giving the formula--DH did it for weeks before it got to the
point where I had to start giving it to him when DH was not at home.

You may get back to the point where you can drop formula altogether,
but in the meantime, make wise choices and do the best you can!
YOu've far exceeded what many women will do for their babies,
especially since you are back to work.

I suppose this is as good a time as any to ask what formula I should choose.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m
http://NewsReader.Com/

Lucy was all, like:
"zeldabee" wrote in message
...
My theory is that his eating pattern changed over the
week-and-a-half break I had over the holidays--he's doing less of
the reverse-cycle nursing than he was, though he does still nurse a
few times each night.

I think there's a good chance your theory is correct. Can you
encourage him to nurse a little more in the evenings and at night, to
get him back on his reverse-cycle track?

Yup, already do...

Not sure how easy that would be for you. It was never a problem with
my DD since she despised the bottle and totally reverse-cycled (she
ate around 6oz of EBM each day at day care!).

Sprogly doesn't seem to have much of a preference, though he does like the
boobie, and generally won't take a pacifier from me, while he will take one
from his dad, or Daycare Lady.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m
http://NewsReader.Com/

Dagny was all, like:
"zeldabee" wrote in message
...
Yesterday, I got a call from daycare at about 4:00 saying that
they'd run out of milk for (4-month-old) Sprogly. [...]

I am completely ignorant because (1) I haven't pumped and (2) I
haven't felt a letdown so I only think I know what it is.

For me it's a tingling, it almost stings. It's unmistakable.

So here's
my question, consider it more of a general question about pumping
than an attempt to solve your problem:

Can you pump *while* you are nursing at night to get more milk? When
I'm nursing esp. at night when I am more engorged, the other breast
often drips like crazy.

I've never mastered the pumping while nursing thing, and in any case I don't
want to get up in the middle of the night to pump. I get only just enough
sleep to function as it is.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m
http://NewsReader.Com/

HollyLewis was all, like:
I'd rather nurse him every two
hours at night than to give him formula, but it doesn't look like
I'll have that choice.

Well, you *could* try waking him to feed at night for a while, until
he gets re-accustomed to that pattern. It would probably be
exhausting, but it's something to consider.

We already nurse at night quite a bit, more than with most 4-month-olds, I
think. In any case, I do encourage it.

Has anyone else reached this point? How do I wrap my mind around
giving him formula after all I've been doing?

I was fortunate enough never to reach quite that point, but I had
plenty of fears about it when I first went back to work. And we've
certainly seen other moms here at mkb run into the same thing. So
you're definitely not alone.

One thing that may help you, if/when you do have to give him formula,
is to think of the formula as just another form of "solid food" --
one that has more nutritional value than any other, too. At 4 months
he's young to start solids but not outrageously so; you'd have begun
introducing foods other than breastmilk to him relatively soon in any
event. He'll just have formula first instead of rice cereal or
pureed banana. :-)

I know, it's just food...I wish he were ready for solids *now*, but he
doesn't even seem close. Daycare Lady wants to give him solids...but Sprogly
doesn't have much in the way of upper-body control, and isn't the slightest
bit interested in the food I eat, except in a puzzled sort of way.

And BTW, if you're pumping 16 oz. a day without letting down for the
pump, I'm impressed. I never got more than 14 or so (total in two
sessions) and that was with a good letdown!

That's in 4 sessions. The most I've ever had in one session is 6oz, and at
that point I was engorged. In a "good" pumping session, I'll get 5oz.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m
http://NewsReader.Com/

Ducky Lawyer was all, like:
[...]

Between my own experience adn what I'd read here, discussed with
friends, etc., is that sometimes babies will just have a hungry day or
hungry week, and then settle down to smaller amounts of EBM during the
day. Sometimes it's related to development or growth spurts or
something physical, and thus it's temporary in nature, even if it
seems really permanent at the time.

Of course. I've always tended to anticipate trouble. It's just that my
pumped output has remained the same over the last 2 months, while his eating
patterns have changed...and it just seems logical that he'll eat more as he
gets bigger.

Lots of sympathy from here....I'll keep my fingers crossed that
Sprog's increased input is temporary or that the gap atleast is
temporary! (Could it be possible for your breasts to 'catch up' to
the increased demand if S was also hungry on weekends? Not sure if
that would help, but maybe?)

He is hungry on weekends, *and* I pump (one session) in addition to
feedings.

If it is a permanent change, then one way to console yourself is to
repeat the advice I heard from Holly before I returned to work -- you
can consider formula just another 'solid food'. It's hard to do that
if S is not on other solids yet, but it's one way of looking at it.
This may help you feel better about the situation, even if you'd
intended to completely avoid formula, you need to follow rule number
one: Feed the baby.

That's what I keep telling myself. Mommy's got to work. Baby's got to eat.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m
http://NewsReader.Com/

Anne Rogers was all, like:
((hugs))

you may yet manage to get enough milk for him, or he may decrease the
amount he takes, I recall at around this stage milk consumption was
peaking, then gradually he started taking longer naps, so cut out one
of his feeds at daycare. When ds was a similar age to sprogly he
sometimes took 2 6oz bottles in 4 hours,

That's good to hear...so, he's eating less at daycare now?

I often had to send the
second bottle as a carton of formula (if you do use formula you might
find the small readymixed cartons are actual better value if it's not
used regularly, we found with a tin we would waste some as it had to
be prepared in advance and then not always eaten). How often does he
eat?

On demand, but it's hard to get a more specific answer than that from the
DCP.

Is there anyway of distracting him?

Not really...and all things being equal, I'd rather he be able to eat when
he's hungry.

As it is, they're complaining that I hold him too much at home, and that he
won't be put down at daycare now. Don't know what I can do about that...He
does seem less willing to amuse himself now than he was before my holiday,
but he'll often play by himself while I'm in the room doing something else,
so I'd think they'd be able to work with him at daycare.

Of course, there's always the problem of interpreting his signals, but I
actually think they're better at it than me...I first assume that he's
hungry when he fusses, then move on to other things if feeding him doesn't
make him happy, while they (or, the main Daycare Lady) seems to know when
he's hungry versus tired versus bored. (I can usually tell "tired" now, but
get "hungry" and "play with me" mixed up.)

Every drop of ebm you give your son is amazing, take pride in how
much you do give him in what must be very difficult circumstances.

I know...and he'll be fine. And compared to some others I've known, and
stories I've read in here, I've had an easy time of it, BF-wise.

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m
http://NewsReader.Com/

Circe was all, like:
zeldabee wrote:
Has anyone else reached this point? How do I wrap my mind around
giving him formula after all I've been doing?

First off: {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}

Thanks...

I think you need them. Whatever happens,
you've done GREAT. Don't berate yourself and feel inadequate. Things
are as they are.

I know, it's a physiological thing...pumping doesn't trigger the physical
response in me...it's just hard to let go, because it's taken some
determination to keep going (when I have little support from Bloke or
family), and I am *stubborn*.

Now, having got that out of the way, here are couple of things to
consider before you resign yourself to formula:

1. It's quite possible that now that you've gone back to work, your
baby will go back to nursing more at night and needing a bit less
milk during the day. It may just take a few weeks for him to get back
into that pattern. But, if he does, you may find that, at a minimum,
your freezer stash lasts a little longer than you currently think it
will.

Maybe, that would be nice. Maybe I should offer less during the day on
weekends, and add a weekend pumping session...?

2. Since he's now in the "window" for solids introduction, what about
offering him a small amount of solids at daycare as a way to "tide him
over"? If he's showing signs of readiness by the time your freezer
stash runs out, [...]

He's not now, though. I've been watching for signs, but not seeing any. Also
allergies run in my family--I've got a couple of serious food allergies (in
addition to being allergic to the planet and everything on it), and Bloke is
allergic to peanuts. So I'll be very careful with solids...

If you do wind up using formula, try to remind yourself that it is the
exception and your own milk is the rule. I know why it bothers you so
much to do it, as I always felt very strongly about avoiding formula
myself, but in the final analysis, what matters most is that he is
fed properly and is comfortable when you're not there to feed him.
You're probably only talking about a few ounces a day, at the most,
so it's really going to represent a very small proportion of his diet.

I know...that will be my chant: It's just food, baby's got to eat...

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m
http://NewsReader.Com/

Corrine was all, like:
How much domperidone are you taking and when are you taking it? I ask
because many women actually don't take enough and you can time your
dosage so you produce more at night or more during the day.

3 10mg tablets, 3x/day (with breakfast, lunch, and supper). And, obviously,
I don't need a boost at night, just during the day.

I asked this question the other day, but didn't get a reply, so might as
well ask again, just in case: does anyone here know anything about oxytocin
nasal spray?

--
z e l d a b e e @ p a n i x . c o m
http://NewsReader.Com/

"zeldabee" wrote in message
...
Yesterday, I got a call from daycare at about 4:00 saying that they'd run
out of milk for (4-month-old) Sprogly. I'd sent 20oz, which was more than
he
was eating each day last week. He's gone from 12-14oz/day pretty
consistently to about 16-18oz/day last week, and now this. I generally can
pump 14-16oz/day. So I was running a little ahead of him by about
10oz/week,
and as of last week I'm behind by about the same amount. At this rate I'll
go through my freezer stash in probably a couple of weeks, and we'll have
to
start giving him formula at daycare.

My theory is that his eating pattern changed over the week-and-a-half
break
I had over the holidays--he's doing less of the reverse-cycle nursing than
he was, though he does still nurse a few times each night. (I couldn't
tell
you exactly how many, because neither one of us really wakes up
completely.)
That, and he's just getting bigger, and eating more.

I've been afraid this was going to happen for a while. I just can't pump
more than 17oz/day at an absolute maximum, more like 16 on a regular
basis.
I drink water, I take Domperidone, fenugreek, alfalfa, blessed thistle,
eat
oatmeal cookies... and every minute of my day is packed full, I can't work
in any more pumping sessions. I just don't let down for the pump--at least
I
don't feel a letdown, as I do when nursing--I'm only pumping out what's
built up between nursing or pumping sessions.

I'd have no problem if I were just nursing--no problem at all. I also have
no problem nursing him at night--I've gotten very adept at going right
back
to sleep, and I'm used to it at this point. I'd rather nurse him every two
hours at night than to give him formula, but it doesn't look like I'll
have
that choice.

I was almost in tears yesterday on the way to get to daycare to feed my
son...I'd really hoped not to have to give him formula. I don't know why
it
bothers me *so* much. I am doing everything I can. Everything. I've put
such
an investment into giving him my milk.

And before anyone makes the suggestion--I *must* work full-time, and can't
take time to nurse during working hours. I've been a little sensitive on
that subject lately. I've been feeling so much resentment toward
SAHMs...during my vacation it felt like I'd died and gone to heaven. I
don't
mean to belittle what SAHMs do, especially those with multiple kids. I'm
just so disappointed, and it felt so easy to me to stay home with him,
compared to what I've been doing.

Has anyone else reached this point? How do I wrap my mind around giving
him
formula after all I've been doing?


I ggave my first child formula on occasion and maybe a bottle or 2 to the
2nd. But with this one, I was upset when she was sick in the hospital and
they gave her an ounce of formula because they didnt see the bottle I'd
brought. I was FURIOUS and hurt and generally traumatized. For whatever
reasons, Im adamantly against it too But I know its not THAT big a deal to
give a bottle or 2, still I JUST DONT WANNA!!!!!