Strange visit to Pediatrician

Carol Ann,

To put is as delicately as I can, the pediatrician is blowing smoke
up your ass. (so to speak). That's an old saying that just came to
mind that means she is feeding you an incredible load of malarky.

See specific comments below...

Carol Ann writes:

: Well, the conversation we had left me kinda stumped. She said that Morgan
: should be sleeping in her own bed and putting herself to sleep (vs me
: breastfeeding her to sleep and cosleeping) because studies have shown that
: children who do not do what she suggested have a small attention span in
: school.

Yeah?!? What studies. What about the contradictory studies that show
children who are self weaned are more independent and self reliant, and
the studies that show kids who are breastfed for an extended period have
IQs up to 10 points higher. I have a hard time believing she is not
making this up out of whole cloth.

: Well, what I gathered was that she felt that I was harming Morgan in some
: way by continuing to breastfeed and not teach her how to sleep in her own
: bed. She also said that if I waited until Morgan was 2 1/2 I may as well
: wait until she is 7 or 8 because she would never learn.

Excuse me, but bull****. She just does not believe in self-weaning and is
trying to justify her position (with lies and half truths!).


: She also said to give her 3/4 of a teaspoon of Benedryl to help her sleep
: for the 7 - 10 days it would take to train her to sleep on her own. She
: said to use it every nite for the 7 - 10 days, but not forever.

Holy crap! IM(NS)HO this suggestion borders on incompetent medical care.
Run, don't walk from this quack!

: I thought about it and thought about it and thought about it. She can't be
: right in suggesting I drug my daughter?? Can she?

She is not right about almost all of what she is suggestion.

: IF I try to wean Morgan but still sleep together is that hurting her?

If you decide to let Morgan wean when *you* and *Morgan* are ready you
will not hurt her. Damn what ignorant "medical professional" think that
damn the ill adivsed suggestions they make.

: What if I cut out all day feedings and just feed her to sleep?? Is that
: wrong? Then, after time, take that one away?

Why? Why? Why? Why do anything different from what you and your daughter
think works???

: The doctor also said that breastfeeding to sleep was bad for Morgan's teeth
: and could also be causing her ear infections b/c she is laying down with a
: pool of milk in her ears. That's not right is it? Don't they only get milk
: when the suck and then they swallow it??

OK. On this I will give her a little credit. After both Clara and Niel got
thier teeth, we brushed their teeth *after* the bed time nursing session, and
did not allow them to nurse again for another 4 hours. Just an idea.

: I'm so confused. Am I harming Morgan?

It is entirely possible, that given your feelings, your pediatrician could
be doing more harm than you ever could!

: Thanks for your input in advance.

: Merry Christmas!!

: Carol Ann
: http://tinyurl.com/b9e9r ---- Pictures of Morgan

Good luck, and relax,
Larry

Yeah! What she said. You go girl! I agree completely with everything you
said Amy!!
"Amy" wrote in message
ups.com...

Carol Ann wrote:

I'm so confused. Am I harming Morgan?

Doctors are great for MEDICAL advice. Sleeping arrangements are not a
medical issue, they're a parenting issue. Unless you've had an
opportunity to watch this doctor with her children, and you've decided
that you like what you see and that you want to emulate her, don't
listen to a word she says about where and how the three of you sleep.
It's none of her business. Broken arms, medical. Ear infections,
medical. Sleeping arrangements, social. I think it's rather arrogant
of doctors to think that their MD gives them the right to dictate
non-medical issues to parents - and parents listen because doctors wear
a white coat and have a title. Our doctor is our age, maybe a bit
older. He has three kids. I'm sure they're all lovely, but that STILL
doesn't give him the right to tell me how to raise my kid. When it
really comes down to it, he has no more qualifications as a parent than
I do. I don't know his kids, and I don't know his parents, and I don't
know if the way they parent in that family is the way I want to parent
in my family.

the benedryl - while it certainly wouldn't hurt her, it's also not
going to train her in any meaningful way. I'm a big benedryl fan - we
gave it to my mom's evil, bitey little dog yesterday to keep him calm
during the festivities, and it worked like a charm... I also used to
take it when I worked shift work. It's good stuff. My doctor said he
gave it to one of his kids before a plane flight one time. It's not
harmful, certainly, but 7 - 10 days from now when you quit using it,
you're going to have one wide-awake, ****ed off little girl who is no
more able to get to sleep on her own in her own bed than she was
before.

Do not go back to this doctor. And only take parenting advice from
people you'd allow to raise your kid if something tragic happened to
you and your husband. That narrowed down the cast of thousands to
about 6 people for me, and quieted the endless cacophany of advice down
to a manageable rumble. Best thing I ever did for my sanity, because
there is no end of parenting advice out there, and I'd say a good 85%
of it is bad advice. And 97.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.


Amy

"JennP" wrote in message
. ..

"Mum of Two" wrote in message
...

I
think it's a load of bull that the breastfeeding to sleep could be giving
her ear infections. Unless you have an oversupply and an extremely
overactive letdown, it doesn't even seem to be in the realms of the
possible. Chances are, that when she's nearly asleep she's still suckling
for comfort but getting very little to no milk out. Some children are
prone
to ear infections. Breastfed children are less likely to get them, but it
still happens.

I think it's bull too. My dd gets very frequent ear infections (appt.
w/ENT
in Jan) and breastfeeding hasn't come up once in all the times I've seen
any
of the doctors in my practice or the PA. Well, it did once. The ped said
that I should *continue* bf through this winter to give her any extra
boost
of immunity that I could.

ITA. Some children are prone to ear infections, and IME they seem to be
familial things. It's bad luck if your child is one who gets them, but I
guess it could be so much worse and more frequent if the child was
bottlefed. Every family has their lot regardless of how they're fed, for my
siblings and me it was asthma, migraines, food intolerances and Aspergers
but you make do the best you can. Haven't had any health problems with DD
yet, fingers crossed, but there's plenty of time yet.


--
Amy
Mum to Carlos born sleeping 20/11/02,
& Ana born screaming 30/06/04
http://www.freewebs.com/carlos2002/
http://www.babiesonline.com/babies/a/ana%5Fj%5F2004/
My blog: http://spaces.msn.com/members/querer-hijo-querer-hija/

CY wrote:
Yeah! What she said. You go girl! I agree completely with everything you
said Amy!!

Thank you! That's an awfully nice comment to wake up to!

Amy

Carol Ann wrote:

Well, the conversation we had left me kinda stumped. She said that
Morgan should be sleeping in her own bed and putting herself to sleep
(vs me breastfeeding her to sleep and cosleeping) because studies
have shown that children who do not do what she suggested have a
small attention span in school.

I have never heard such a thing and I'd ask her to site the studies so I
could look them up myself before making any decisions based on that little
nugget.

She also said that if I waited until Morgan was 2
1/2 I may as well wait until she is 7 or 8 because she would never
learn.

It can be (but isn't always) a bit of a longer process to get an older child
out of your bed but it certainly isn't impossible. I'm living proof :-)
Also, as long as you don't care, who cares where she sleeps!

I thought about it and thought about it and thought about it. She
can't be right in suggesting I drug my daughter?? Can she?

That is shocking! I would definitely go back to your regular doctor!

IF I try to wean Morgan but still sleep together is that hurting her?

No, I did this with my kids.

What if I cut out all day feedings and just feed her to sleep?? Is
that wrong? Then, after time, take that one away?

Nope, that sounds very sensible if you are interested in reducing her feeds.

The doctor also said that breastfeeding to sleep was bad for Morgan's
teeth and could also be causing her ear infections b/c she is laying
down with a pool of milk in her ears. That's not right is it? Don't
they only get milk when the suck and then they swallow it??

I don't know but I wouldn't worry about it personally unless she starts
having teeth problems.

I'm so confused. Am I harming Morgan?

Nope! You are a wonderful mother Carol Ann!!


--
Nikki
Hunter 4/99
Luke 4/01
Thing One and Thing Two :-) EDD 4/06

"Amy" wrote and I snipped:

I'm so confused. Am I harming Morgan?

Doctors are great for MEDICAL advice. Sleeping arrangements are not a
medical issue, they're a parenting issue. Unless you've had an
opportunity to watch this doctor with her children, and you've decided
that you like what you see and that you want to emulate her, don't
listen to a word she says about where and how the three of you sleep.
It's none of her business. Broken arms, medical. Ear infections,
medical. Sleeping arrangements, social. I think it's rather arrogant
of doctors to think that their MD gives them the right to dictate
non-medical issues to parents - and parents listen because doctors wear
a white coat and have a title. Our doctor is our age, maybe a bit
older. He has three kids. I'm sure they're all lovely, but that STILL
doesn't give him the right to tell me how to raise my kid. When it
really comes down to it, he has no more qualifications as a parent than
I do. I don't know his kids, and I don't know his parents, and I don't
know if the way they parent in that family is the way I want to parent
in my family.

Do not go back to this doctor. And only take parenting advice from
people you'd allow to raise your kid if something tragic happened to
you and your husband. That narrowed down the cast of thousands to
about 6 people for me, and quieted the endless cacophany of advice down
to a manageable rumble. Best thing I ever did for my sanity, because
there is no end of parenting advice out there, and I'd say a good 85%
of it is bad advice. And 97.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.


All really great advice, Amy. Sounds like you're getting this parenting
thing figured out.

Take care,
-Patty, mom of 1+2

"Carol Ann" wrote in message
news:MqDrf.432631$084.127960@attbi_s22...
Morgan is 21 months old. She has had a cold for 2 weeks and began to
throw up and have a fever so I took her to the Pediatrician.

Her normal doctor is not in so we saw another one. She was diagnosed with
a double ear infection.

Well, the conversation we had left me kinda stumped. She said that Morgan
should be sleeping in her own bed and putting herself to sleep (vs me
breastfeeding her to sleep and cosleeping) because studies have shown that
children who do not do what she suggested have a small attention span in
school.

Well, what I gathered was that she felt that I was harming Morgan in some
way by continuing to breastfeed and not teach her how to sleep in her own
bed. She also said that if I waited until Morgan was 2 1/2 I may as well
wait until she is 7 or 8 because she would never learn.

She suggested I make the big girl bed a big deal to Morgan (which I
accept), that I put her to sleep in a dark room (which I accept) and that
I let her cry for 15 minute intervals before I go in to put her back down
to sleep. She said that it could go on for hours but to not give in.

She also said to give her 3/4 of a teaspoon of Benedryl to help her sleep
for the 7 - 10 days it would take to train her to sleep on her own. She
said to use it every nite for the 7 - 10 days, but not forever.

I asked her if Morgan would feel the effects of the drugs and know
something is wrong. She said no.

I thought about it and thought about it and thought about it. She can't
be right in suggesting I drug my daughter?? Can she?

IF I try to wean Morgan but still sleep together is that hurting her?

What if I cut out all day feedings and just feed her to sleep?? Is that
wrong? Then, after time, take that one away?

The doctor also said that breastfeeding to sleep was bad for Morgan's
teeth and could also be causing her ear infections b/c she is laying down
with a pool of milk in her ears. That's not right is it? Don't they only
get milk when the suck and then they swallow it??

I'm so confused. Am I harming Morgan?

Thanks for your input in advance.

Merry Christmas!!

Carol Ann
http://tinyurl.com/b9e9r ---- Pictures of Morgan

All I can say is, OMG. I would find another doctor...I'd also talk to the
regular doctor and tell him what happened. I would NOT worry AT ALL about
the way you are caring for Morgan. You've always been a great, caring,
knowledgeable mom to her. Don't beat yourself up for what this one quack
said.

I'm sorry you had to experience that.

Hope everything else is well,

Jen, momma to Laszlo and Lily

In article MqDrf.432631$084.127960@attbi_s22,
"Carol Ann" wrote:

Well, the conversation we had left me kinda stumped. She said that Morgan
should be sleeping in her own bed and putting herself to sleep (vs me
breastfeeding her to sleep and cosleeping) because studies have shown that
children who do not do what she suggested have a small attention span in
school.

Never heard that before! From a quick look at Pubmed, there is a relationship
between sleep problems and attention/behaviour problems, but this is sleep
disorders, nothing to do with breastfeeding to sleep or cosleeping. Ask your
regular ped for the evidence!

Well, what I gathered was that she felt that I was harming Morgan in some
way by continuing to breastfeed and not teach her how to sleep in her own
bed. She also said that if I waited until Morgan was 2 1/2 I may as well
wait until she is 7 or 8 because she would never learn.

She suggested I make the big girl bed a big deal to Morgan (which I accept),
that I put her to sleep in a dark room (which I accept) and that I let her
cry for 15 minute intervals before I go in to put her back down to sleep.
She said that it could go on for hours but to not give in.

That is certainly not what Ferber (the controlled crying guy) advocates.

She also said to give her 3/4 of a teaspoon of Benedryl to help her sleep
for the 7 - 10 days it would take to train her to sleep on her own. She
said to use it every nite for the 7 - 10 days, but not forever.

That is just plain bizarre. Drugging kids when they don't need it?!

BTW it's bottle-feeding that causes problems with ear infections. Breastfed
babies are much less likely to get ear infections.

I'm so confused. Am I harming Morgan?

No, of course not -- but next tiem you go to the pediatrician, make sure it's
your regular one and tell her all the rubbish that the locum came out with.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"In Melbourne there is plenty of vigour and eagerness, but there is
nothing worth being eager or vigorous about."
Francis Adams, The Australians, 1893.

Amy wrote:
Carol Ann wrote:

I'm so confused. Am I harming Morgan?

Doctors are great for MEDICAL advice. Sleeping arrangements are not a
medical issue, they're a parenting issue. Unless you've had an
opportunity to watch this doctor with her children, and you've decided
that you like what you see and that you want to emulate her, don't
listen to a word she says about where and how the three of you sleep.
It's none of her business. Broken arms, medical. Ear infections,
medical. Sleeping arrangements, social. I think it's rather arrogant
of doctors to think that their MD gives them the right to dictate
non-medical issues to parents - and parents listen because doctors wear
a white coat and have a title. Our doctor is our age, maybe a bit

I agree with this 100%!! Doctors are clinicians, not parenting
experts.

Do not go back to this doctor. And only take parenting advice from
people you'd allow to raise your kid if something tragic happened to
you and your husband. That narrowed down the cast of thousands to
about 6 people for me, and quieted the endless cacophany of advice down
to a manageable rumble. Best thing I ever did for my sanity, because
there is no end of parenting advice out there, and I'd say a good 85%
of it is bad advice. And 97.2% of statistics are made up on the spot.

I agree with this, generally too. I do recommend listening to the non-6
people, though, because occasionally (rarely) you'll get a gem of
advice. But you have to expect to discard the chaff. And I think your
85% figure is low. ;-)

For me, the hardest advice to ignore comes from my own family, because
unlike all those well-meaning strangers whom I don't care about
offending, I do actually care about my family. So finding ways to
listen and ignore them without causing offense, is a little harder.

Cathy Weeks

Carol Ann wrote:

I'm so confused. Am I harming Morgan?

Carol Ann,
This is just an anecdote, but I think it may reassure you. My daughter
Kivi just turned 4 years old. She co-slept and nursed to sleep every
single day of her life until she was a little past her 3rd birthday.

Somewhere around 2.75, she quit falling asleep at night from nursing. I
don't know why ... nursing just lost the ability to make her sleepy at
night. So my husband and I would lay with her in the dark (but in our
room) until she fell asleep. And it wasn't long after that we were able
to leave her in the dark and go about our business and she'd fall
asleep on her own.

However, we moved into our new house where she had her own room, with a
big-girl bed in it. She liked having her own space, but I never pushed
her to move from the toddler bed in our room, to the big girl room in
her own room. I really wanted her to move AFTER she started sleeping
all night regularly - the last thing I wanted was to be stumbling
around in the dark from room to room, waking up even *more*.

At around age 3, she started sleeping all night every night, and at age
3.25, she suddenly told me she wanted to sleep in her own bed. So, I
nursed her, gave her her drink of water, and she said "OK, you can go
now, Mommy". She slept great. I slept horribly. She had occasionally
slept on her own bed during naps when she asked to. She was still
nursing to sleep for naps, by the way. But, except for when we've had
guests using her room, or was sick, she's slept in her own bed ever
since.

As for teeth: Some people have teeth problems, and some don't. We've
always brushed her teeth, then nursed her to sleep. And when she
stopped falling asleep from nursing, we started giving her a drink of
water after nursing to rinse the milk off. She has no cavities at all,
and her teeth are in excellent shape. This is how it will work with
most people. However, some people this would not work for - they may be
prone toward caries - and if Morgan is one, then you should work toward
night weaning. If you are brushing her teeth twice a day, and not
feeding her a diet high in sugar, then she's probably fine.

As with teeth, some people are prone to ear infections, and others
aren't. My daughter, in 4 years, has only had about 1 ear infection
per year. My brother on the other hand, got them every six weeks when
he was little (and he self-weaned at 10 months, and my mother, being a
dentist, NEVER put him to bed with a bottle of any kind), and had 3
sets of ear tubes in 9 years. So has Morgan had lots of ear
infections? Bottle-fed babies ARE more prone to them than breastfed
babies, and babies who nurse lying down, DO get more than babies that
don't. But if Morgan isn't prone to them, and hasn't had many, then
why worry? There's no way of knowing if she would have gotten them if
she hadn't been BF-ing. Perhaps she would have had MORE if she hadn't
gotten the antibodies from you.

Hope all this helps.

Cathy Weeks