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Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 15th 04, 04:30 PM
Todd Gastaldo
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Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?

PREGNANT WOMEN: YOUR BABY'S UMBILICAL CORD

Everyone knows that babies breathe through their umbilical cords until they
start breathing with their lungs.

Read the gruesome umbilical cord pinching (baby asphyxiation) experiment of
George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG below.

Do not let the OB immediately clamp your baby's cord.

Let it stop pulsating first.



RETIRED OB PROPOSES CHILD ABUSE TO EXPOSE CHILD ABUSE...

PROPOSES ASPHYXIATING BABY - DENYING BABY USE OF ITS OWN BLOOD

How can George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG know that pinching the cord
between thumb and finger to produce fetal heart rate deceleration
"indicating asphyxia sufficient to cause brain damage" is of no
significance?!

George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG advises a GRUESOME experiment:

"[Immediately after delivery t]he umbilical cord [is] immediately closed
between finger and thumb...[fetal heart rate/FHR] will decelerate quickly to
about 60 bpm and the cord vein between thumb and umbilicus will empty
completely into the child. If the child does not breathe or cry, the heart
rate will remain low, and the color will change from purple-pink (normal at
birth) to pallid blue (vaso-constriction and asphyxia.) Eventually, the
normal child will gasp and start breathing due to high CO2 levels; the heart
rate will increase, the color may improve, but the pallor will persist.

"Few midwives or obstetricians will be able to...[do this]...for a period of
60 seconds. Common sense will soon release the finger and thumb. Watch the
cord vein distend while the child receives the placental transfusion. When
breathing starts, the pallid, purple child will turn a ruddy pink, the deep,
prolonged FHR deceleration will rapidly recover, and in a minute or two the
Apgar score will be 10+. This ruddy-pink, squirming, bawling child with an
intact cord has a normal blood volume.

"On the other hand...[some midwives and obstetricians]...following the ACOG
and trial lawyers' protocol, B138, may immediately doubly clamp and cut the
cord (distal to the compressing thumb) and send a sample to the lab for cord
blood gases; this child will be pale, somewhat slow to respond, and may have
some retraction respiration - this "normal" child is missing a large portion
of its normal blood volume.

"In each scenario, a deep, long, [fetal heart rate/FHR] deceleration
"indicating asphyxia sufficient to cause brain damage" will be recorded on
the monitor strip. In the first scenario, the effects are temporary,
completely reversed and OF NO SIGNIFICANCE; in the second, one may have to
wait until the child is in grade school to prove that the prolonged
hypovolemia and subsequent anemia did not affect the integrity, growth and
development of the child's brain....
http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm (emphasis added)



BIZARRE!

Again, how can George Malcolm Morley, MB ChB FACOG know that producing fetal
heart rate deceleration "indicating asphyxia sufficient to cause brain
damage" is of no significance?!



Crime is RAMPANT in obstetrics!



PREGNANT WOMEN: Just before OBs clamp umbilical cords they knowingly clamp
BIRTH CANALS - up to 30%.

For simple PROOF - and simple instructions on how to OPEN your birth canal
the "extra" up to 30%...

It's mass spinal manipulation child abuse.

MDs and MBs are violently pushing on tiny spines (with oxytocin) - and
gruesomely pulling (with hands, forceps, vacuums) - with birth canals
senselessly closed up to 30%.

Some babies die, some babies get paralyzed - most "just" have their spines
gruesomely wrenched.

All spinal manipulation is gruesome with the birth canal closed.

See: I ain't no Semmelweis, but...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591

Immediately after this mass spinal manipulation child abuse, MDs and MBs
subject babies to MORE child abuse - asphyxiation sufficient to cause brain
damage via immediate cord clamping.



MY THANKS TO...

My thanks to Kelly Moscarello for sharing her home birth story (poor little
Bella!) and for urging me to again look at George the OB's remarkable essay
quoted above.

My thanks also to Canadian Grandma Donna Young for introducing George the
OB's website - I wish I had read that essay more closely a long time ago.

Donna has a petition: www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/102580814

Oddly, missing from Donna's petition is the simple expedient of calling upon
MDs and MBs and midwives to simply report immediate cord clamping as child
abuse.




SUSPECTED CHILD ABUSE REPORTS are in order from George the OB and
any other MDs/MBs reading.

MDs and MBs COUNT.

MDs and MBs reporting immediate cord clamping (asphyxiation sufficient to
cause brain damage) as child abuse will finally get the attention of DAs and
attorney generals.

MDs and MBs are true cultural authorities - unlike this DC who is accused of
"just wanting to get back at" organized medicine.

I just want mass child abuse by MDs and MBs to stop.

My focus has been stopping the mass (sometimes fatal) birth-canal-closing
SPINAL MANIPULATION child abuse by MDs and MBs mentioned above.

See again: I ain't no Semmelweis, but...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591

My new focus includes stopping MDs and MBs from causing asphyxiation
sufficient to cause brain damage via immediate cord clamping.

I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs and MBs. MDs and MBs are just
academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental
meatgrinder - medical school.

Step One is affording babies the protection of child abuse laws designed to
IMMEDIATELY protect them from harm.





"TERROR AND SUFFERING"

George the OB closes his essay:

"To end this dilemma and the medico-legal terror and suffering, patients
should demand, and practicing obstetricians should provide, an informed
consent document stating that the newborn's cord will not be clamped until
all pulsations have ceased and until the child is breathing and pink, and
that resuscitation, if needed, will be done with the placental circulation
intact. A scalp or heel blood sample at birth to confirm oxygenation status
is just as valid as a cord blood sample. The practicing obstetricians may
thus be able to restore some semblance of dignity and respect to their
profession by discarding and ignoring the advice of their tort counselors,
academic peers, publishers and sub-specialists. The scarcity of injured
newborns and empty NICU's may have a very negative impact on various
parties; the abundance of healthy babies will be welcome news to everyone
else....My letters published in the Green Journal, June 2001, asking ACOG to
provide an informed consent document for B138 remain unanswered, as do
formal complaints regarding B138 to ACOG and the AMA. These parties have
remained silent, and they have the right to remain silent; their silence
speaks louder than words. ACOG's report on cerebral palsy is either a
colossal error or a grotesque attempt to cover."
http://www.cordclamping.com/acog-cp.htm


George, OB criminals don't respond well to reasoning and logic.

If they did, they would have stopped closing birth canals immediately after
I exposed the crime.

See again: I ain't no Semmelweis, but...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591



CALL THE SHERIFF GEORGE

If we saw men in white coats strangling people on the street - we would call
911 - the sheriff.

WHY aren't we calling 911/the sheriff to stop men in white coats from
strangling BABIES in hospitals?

REPORT GEORGE. Urge other MDs and MBs to report. Keep reporting until OBs
stop causing asphyxia sufficient to cause brain damage.

You might also report the grisly spectacle of OBs knowingly closing birth
canals up to 30%.

See again: I ain't no Semmelweis, but...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591

Do it NOW George. (Immediate suspected child abuse reports are the law in
nearly every
jurisdiction in North America.)

FIRST report child abuse - THEN keep writing essays imploring OB criminals
to stop their crime - and be sure and encourage other OBs to join you in
reporting - and reporting REGULARLY - until the OB crime stops.

I don't think you should be advising child abuse to help expose child abuse
though...

I don't think you can know that pinching the cord
between thumb and finger to produce fetal heart rate deceleration
"indicating asphyxia sufficient to cause brain damage" is of no
significance...

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo




  #2  
Old June 15th 04, 08:56 PM
Mxsmanic
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Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?

Todd Gastaldo writes:

Everyone knows that babies breathe through their umbilical cords until they
start breathing with their lungs.


Unborn babies don't breathe at all. They receive oxygen from the
mother's respiration.

Do not let the OB immediately clamp your baby's cord.


Why not? It has ceased to be useful for providing the baby with oxygen
long before it is born.

A newborn baby need only inhale to begin oxygenating itself, and that's
exactly what it will do as soon as it has a chance. The umbilical cord
is not needed. It has been severed from the connections with the mother
much earlier. Communication between the baby's body and the mother's
body through the cord begins to shut down as the process of delivery
starts.

Additionally, neonatess are extremely resistant to anoxia, no doubt
because this resistance helps them to get through delivery, during which
they may be deprived of oxygen for significant periods.

The argument about blood volume seems reasonable enough, but Baby
doesn't need the cord to breathe.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  #3  
Old June 15th 04, 10:18 PM
Larry McMahan
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Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?

In misc.kids.pregnancy Mxsmanic wrote:
: Todd Gastaldo writes:

: Everyone knows that babies breathe through their umbilical cords until they
: start breathing with their lungs.

: Unborn babies don't breathe at all. They receive oxygen from the
: mother's respiration.

A fine point indeed. :-) I think Todd is using the word "breathe"
colloquially to mean "receive oxygen." Of course you couldn't know
that! :-)

: Do not let the OB immediately clamp your baby's cord.

: Why not?

Hmm. We could get off topic very fast with a question like that. You
already mention blood volume below. Iron stores is another. I am
just pointing out that just because you disagree with Todd's comments
about oxygen doesn't mean there aren't other reasons for delayed clamping.

: It has ceased to be useful for providing the baby with oxygen
: long before it is born.

I don't know where you get that!! Cites!! In the case of my children,
the placenta did not detach from the uterus until weel after they were
born. I would question this conclusion.

: A newborn baby need only inhale to begin oxygenating itself, and that's
: exactly what it will do as soon as it has a chance.

Well, approximately. In most case, what you say is true, but in the case
of my first son, there was several minutes before he started breathing on
his own.

: The umbilical cord
: is not needed. It has been severed from the connections with the mother
: much earlier. Communication between the baby's body and the mother's
: body through the cord begins to shut down as the process of delivery
: starts.

There are two points to be made here...
1. Often it is not the case that the placenta detaches immediately.
2. There is some time involved in the circulation of the umbilical
bloot INTO the baby (where it stays after the baby is born). This
is oxygenated blood that can provide additional oxygen to the baby.
(although I would hazard not a great deal)

: Additionally, neonatess are extremely resistant to anoxia, no doubt
: because this resistance helps them to get through delivery, during which
: they may be deprived of oxygen for significant periods.

Define significant period. 6 minutes often equals brain damage, 10 minutes
death. These numbers are highly variable and are only approximate, but
they also probably represent the maximum possible. Admittedly, the
oxygen in the cord probably represents only a fraction of a minute, but
it might be the fraction that makes a difference in a particular instance.

: The argument about blood volume seems reasonable enough, but Baby
: doesn't need the cord to breathe.

I agree that blood volume is a more important factor overall, and would
argue that iron stores is also.

You may think that Todd did not argue his point very well, but that is
no reason to claim a protocol (delayed clamping) is not beneficial just
because he did not pick what most people recognize as the biggest risk
factors.

Larry

  #4  
Old June 16th 04, 05:44 AM
Mxsmanic
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Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?

Larry McMahan writes:

A fine point indeed.


Not nearly as fine a point as any argument about clamping the cord.

Hmm. We could get off topic very fast with a question like that. You
already mention blood volume below. Iron stores is another.


Iron is needed mostly for blood; the baby doesn't need extra iron if
there's no blood to go with it.

I am just pointing out that just because you disagree with Todd's comments
about oxygen doesn't mean there aren't other reasons for delayed clamping.


The whole discussion is rather like arguing over how many angels can
dance on the head of a pin. In the absence of careful double-blind
studies, there's no way to know whether early clamping is bad or good,
or even if it makes any difference at all.

I don't know where you get that!! Cites!!


The first step of the delivery process is to begin shutting down
connections between mother and child. Indeed, it's air hunger that
stimulates the baby to take its first breath. If the supply of oxygen
from Mom were intact, the baby would have no inclination to use its own
lungs at birth.

In the case of my children,
the placenta did not detach from the uterus until weel after they were
born. I would question this conclusion.


It doesn't have to detach. It's already inoperative for exchange of
nutrients and breathing gases.

Well, approximately. In most case, what you say is true, but in the case
of my first son, there was several minutes before he started breathing on
his own.


Your first son doesn't establish a general rule. All babies go through
some degree of anoxia for some number of minutes when they are
delivered; that's what triggers their own breathing (the rise in CO2
that accompanies the fall in oxygen as the placental route for breathing
gases shuts down).

There are two points to be made here...
1. Often it is not the case that the placenta detaches immediately.


"Detaches" isn't the same as "stops working."

2. There is some time involved in the circulation of the umbilical
bloot INTO the baby (where it stays after the baby is born). This
is oxygenated blood that can provide additional oxygen to the baby.
(although I would hazard not a great deal)


Very little. And I'm not sure why you think the blood is particularly
oxgenated, any more than the blood in the baby itself.

Define significant period.


Several minutes with varying degrees of anoxia. This is what stimulates
breathing. A baby is disinclined to breathe as long as it is getting
oxygen; the lack of oxygen (or more precisely the rise in CO2) is what
starts it breathing on its own.

You may think that Todd did not argue his point very well, but that is
no reason to claim a protocol (delayed clamping) is not beneficial just
because he did not pick what most people recognize as the biggest risk
factors.


I think that none of this really matters. Clamping or not clamping
isn't going to have any significant effect on Baby. Human beings are
not that delicate, and in any case the cord is essentially
non-functional by the time the doctor can get to it to clamp it.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  #5  
Old June 16th 04, 09:26 PM
P Harris
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Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?

Mxsmanic wrote in message . ..
snip
In the absence of careful double-blind
studies, there's no way to know whether early clamping is bad or good,
or even if it makes any difference at all.

snip
Clamping or not clamping
isn't going to have any significant effect on Baby.


Um, er, ah, how can you possibly start by arguing that with in the
absence of proper statistical studies it is impossible to know whether
early clamping of the cord matters, and then just a few paragraphs
later assert confidently that it *doesn't* matter?

You can't have it both ways. If, as you say, no suitable studies of
the question exist, then both you AND Todd (and anyone else either)
are just articulating your opinions, with no more empirical evidence
for the one position than the other, and while you may find your
version more plausible, that is waaaay insufficient basis to conclude
that you are definitely correct.


Pat, wearing researcher hat for a moment
edd July 21
  #6  
Old June 16th 04, 09:53 PM
Mxsmanic
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Posts: n/a
Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?

P Harris writes:

Mxsmanic wrote in message . ..
snip
In the absence of careful double-blind
studies, there's no way to know whether early clamping is bad or good,
or even if it makes any difference at all.

snip
Clamping or not clamping
isn't going to have any significant effect on Baby.


Um, er, ah, how can you possibly start by arguing that with in the
absence of proper statistical studies it is impossible to know whether
early clamping of the cord matters, and then just a few paragraphs
later assert confidently that it *doesn't* matter?

You can't have it both ways. If, as you say, no suitable studies of
the question exist, then both you AND Todd (and anyone else either)
are just articulating your opinions, with no more empirical evidence
for the one position than the other, and while you may find your
version more plausible, that is waaaay insufficient basis to conclude
that you are definitely correct.


Pat, wearing researcher hat for a moment
edd July 21



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  #7  
Old June 16th 04, 09:55 PM
Mxsmanic
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Posts: n/a
Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?

P Harris writes:

Um, er, ah, how can you possibly start by arguing that with in the
absence of proper statistical studies it is impossible to know whether
early clamping of the cord matters, and then just a few paragraphs
later assert confidently that it *doesn't* matter?


I'm not sure where you see the confident assertion. I was merely
expressing an opinion. In the absence of evidence in one direction or
the other, I see no reason to blithely assume that clamping the cord
makes any difference.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  #8  
Old June 16th 04, 10:38 PM
Larry McMahan
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Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?

In misc.kids.pregnancy Mxsmanic wrote:
: P Harris writes:

: Um, er, ah, how can you possibly start by arguing that with in the
: absence of proper statistical studies it is impossible to know whether
: early clamping of the cord matters, and then just a few paragraphs
: later assert confidently that it *doesn't* matter?

: I'm not sure where you see the confident assertion. I was merely
: expressing an opinion. In the absence of evidence in one direction or
: the other, I see no reason to blithely assume that clamping the cord
: makes any difference.

: --
: Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

I'd look up the studies on Medscape, but you're too opinionated
to be worth the effort.

Larry
  #9  
Old June 17th 04, 06:25 AM
Mxsmanic
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Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?

Larry McMahan writes:

I'd look up the studies on Medscape, but you're too opinionated
to be worth the effort.


Then why do you mention them?

There are no double-blind, controlled studies on Medscape, or anywhere
else.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
  #10  
Old June 17th 04, 08:37 AM
Chotii
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Default Clamping baby's cord - is baby still breathing through it?


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Larry McMahan writes:

I'd look up the studies on Medscape, but you're too opinionated
to be worth the effort.


Then why do you mention them?

There are no double-blind, controlled studies on Medscape, or anywhere
else.


If this is the case, then it's foolish to assume that immediate clamping of
the cord has no ill effects, and to *do* it as a matter of routine. It is
true, in many species, that the mother will chew the cord shortly after
birth. However in many cases, the cord breaks spontaneously when the mother
lurches to her feet. In no other species that I know of is birth attended by
a third party who severs the cord, or certainly not immediately.

One cannot ever do a proper study on the effects on any given individual
child - the child is either clamped immediately, or not. We cannot see how
the child might have fared if the other had been done. Better, I think, to
err on the side of caution: allow the cord to remain until it clearly ceases
to function. If not when the placenta comes away from the uterine wall, then
at least when the cord stops pulsing.

--angela


 




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