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Is CPS on topic for this NG? From FAQ's



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 27th 03, 04:39 PM
Fern5827
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is CPS on topic for this NG? From FAQ's

Written by Neal. Whose keen intelligence is sorely missed.
C

8) Are discussions about Child Protective Services on topic on a.p.s.?

Absolutely! Since Children's Protective Services, by whatever local name they
go by, deal with issues of child abuse and since several extreme position
posters continue to claim that all spanking is child abuse, even that which
is clearly legal in all fifty states of the union, the discussion of CPS is
entirely on topic, because people should be entirely aware of what exactly
they are doing and causing if they report someone to one of these agencies.

Another newsgroup specifically about CPS is alt.support.child-protective-
services, and posts can be made there as well, but since the world is not as
ultracompartmentalized as some would wish it to be, such posts are also on
topic in a.p.s.

Those who object most strenuously to posts in the newsgroup about CPS are those
who tend to advocate or play apologist for those agencies and do not wish the
general public to know the truth about these agencies.


Comment by Fern:

CPS has intruded upon millions of families over the past 27 years when CAPTA
enacted. CPS is absolutely on point for this NG.


DESCRIPTORS; CHILD PROTECTIVE, SPANKING, INGRAHAM V WRIGHT, FAMILY LAW, SOCIAL
WORK, CPS, DFS, DSS, DHR, TDPRS,ACS, DCF, CYS,CYF, DYFS, DCF, DCYF, CORPORAL
PUNISHMENT, SPANKING, CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS, RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS, PRS, CPA, CSB,
DFYS, DFACS, CSB,FIA
  #2  
Old October 27th 03, 10:07 PM
LaVonne Carlson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is CPS on topic for this NG? From FAQ's


Fern5827 wrote:

8) Are discussions about Child Protective Services on topic on a.p.s.?

Absolutely! Since Children's Protective Services, by whatever local name they
go by, deal with issues of child abuse and since several extreme position
posters continue to claim that all spanking is child abuse, even that which
is clearly legal in all fifty states of the union, the discussion of CPS is
entirely on topic, because people should be entirely aware of what exactly
they are doing and causing if they report someone to one of these agencies.


However, many of your posts have absolutely nothing to do with spanking, and are
nothing but rants against CPS. These posts belong on
alt.support.child-protective-services.

Another newsgroup specifically about CPS is alt.support.child-protective-
services, and posts can be made there as well, but since the world is not as
ultracompartmentalized as some would wish it to be, such posts are also on
topic in a.p.s.


Posts discussing spanking are appropriate on alt.parenting.spanking. Posts that
have nothing to do with spanking and alternative forms of discipline but have the
sole purpose to rant about CPS belong on alt.support.child-protective-services.

Those who object most strenuously to posts in the newsgroup about CPS are those
who tend to advocate or play apologist for those agencies and do not wish the
general public to know the truth about these agencies.


This ng I am posting from is alt.parenting.spanking. The purpose of this ng is to
discuss spanking as a disciplinary method and disciplinary alternatives. I have
cross-posted this to alt.support.child-protective-services. Fern's posts thar
have nothing to do with spanking children but only with her perceived CPS abuses
need to be posted to the CPS ng.

LaVonne


  #3  
Old October 28th 03, 09:03 AM
Greg Hanson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is CPS on topic for this NG? From FAQ's

LaVonne Carlson wrote

Neal said
in message deal with issues of child abuse

That's what you get for calling spanking BEATING, LaVonne.

and since several extreme position posters continue to
claim that all spanking is child abuse, even that which
is clearly legal in all fifty states of the union, the
discussion of CPS is entirely on topic, because people
should be entirely aware of what exactly they are doing
and causing if they report someone to one of these
agencies.



However, many of your posts have absolutely nothing
to do with spanking, and are nothing but rants
against CPS. These posts belong on
alt.support.child-protective-services.


If Neal did not say this I will:
Parenting does not happen in a vacuum.
Spanking or not spanking happens under the scrutiny
of big brother CPS. To avoid that CONTEXT would
be a NONSENSICAL view of spanking or not spanking.

Who appointed YOU to play Net Nazi, LaVonne?
Did you know THAT violates general newsgroup rules?
Besides, you seem to complain SELECTIVELY, so I
can have NO RESPECT for this little tactic on your part.

You defend CPS and bureaucracy at every turn,
but I haven't seen you SAY MUCH about the wonderful
Foster Parents who starved 4 boys to emaciation
while getting regular visits from CPS.

How can any discussion of the context and environment
not include the horror stories about what might happen
to kids removed for spanking or spanking gone wrong?

To ignore the complexities of the issues is to be
idiotically simplistic about parenting, as if
there is some place where you can parent in a vacuum.

LaVonne wrote
alternative forms of discipline


As in making child wash off pee with cold water
after discovering that happy warm guilt free showers
were causing the frequency of wetting at school
to INCREASE?
(Positive reinforcement of a negative behavior)?

sole purpose to rant


Whatever you say herr Doktor!

Those who object most strenuously to posts


Neal was talking about you, LaVonne!

Neal (continued)
in the newsgroup about CPS are those who tend
to advocate or play apologist for those agencies
and do not wish the general public to know the
truth about these agencies.


Yep, that's LaVonne!

snip

Fern does not post EVERYTHING on both newsgroups, and
I suspect that when people cross post things it is
often out of excitement or outrage and often perhaps
not because spanking is involved.

As Neal pointed out, you seem to want to conceal the
truth about child abuse agencies and how they actually
work.

Recently you demanded proof of me for something that
was WELL KNOWN, that every state CPS agency had
failed Federal Audits for compliance with regulations.

It is crucial to understanding the capricious willy
nilly behavior of CPS and therefore the political
environment in which a spanking or non-spanking parent
may be constrained. Crucial to SOCIAL CONTEXT.

Or do you wish to assert that SOCIAL CONTEXT has
nothing to do with spanking or not spanking?

If you wish to usurp parents rights to choose
whether or not to spank, which IS clearly your goal,
understanding CPS in the real world as opposed
to intent or theory seems germain.

You lobby for anti-spanking laws while you naively
state that they would not be used for child removals.
Any such law would most definately be automatically
and broadly be used to remove children to Foster
Homes where the kids are 10 TIMES more likely to be
sexually abused, and twice as likely to DIE.

How do you honestly dare pretend that real world
reports about how the Child Protection Industry
functions are not totally germain to the
anti-spanking laws you advocate?

While the Hatch act may not stop you a state
paid employee from such lobbying, that lobbying
on your part ETHICALLY justifies the presentation
of real world information about how CPS works,
or more precisely, how CPS would MISUSE the sort
of law you are lobbying for.

In Summary:
You dragged the camels nose into the tent
( with spanking == beating )
( and proposing new child abuse law! )
( ignorance of crucial info on failed Audits )
( naive theory FAR from actual results. )
( Your expression that it's not political
further proves how naive you are. )
Who appointed you to keep pushing your idea
of net etiquette? That's bad form.
  #4  
Old October 28th 03, 01:18 PM
Dan Sullivan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is CPS on topic for this NG? From FAQ's


"Greg Hanson" wrote in message
om...
LaVonne Carlson wrote

Neal said
in message deal with issues of child abuse

That's what you get for calling spanking BEATING, LaVonne.

and since several extreme position posters continue to
claim that all spanking is child abuse, even that which
is clearly legal in all fifty states of the union, the
discussion of CPS is entirely on topic, because people
should be entirely aware of what exactly they are doing
and causing if they report someone to one of these
agencies.



However, many of your posts have absolutely nothing
to do with spanking, and are nothing but rants
against CPS. These posts belong on
alt.support.child-protective-services.


If Neal did not say this I will:
Parenting does not happen in a vacuum.
Spanking or not spanking happens under the scrutiny
of big brother CPS. To avoid that CONTEXT would
be a NONSENSICAL view of spanking or not spanking.

Who appointed YOU to play Net Nazi, LaVonne?


LaVonne wrote,

"However, many of your posts have absolutely nothing to do with spanking,
and are nothing but rants against CPS. These posts belong on
alt.support.child-protective-services."

Sounds fair to me.

Did you know THAT violates general newsgroup rules?


Which rules?

Besides, you seem to complain SELECTIVELY, so I
can have NO RESPECT for this little tactic on your part.


LaVonne is selective because some posts may be appropriate to both NGs and
some may not.

Sounds fair to me.

You defend CPS and bureaucracy at every turn,


If that's true, that's her opinion and she's entitled to it..

but I haven't seen you SAY MUCH about the wonderful
Foster Parents who starved 4 boys to emaciation
while getting regular visits from CPS.

How can any discussion of the context and environment
not include the horror stories about what might happen
to kids removed for spanking or spanking gone wrong?


Those kids were removed for spanking?

To ignore the complexities of the issues is to be
idiotically simplistic about parenting, as if
there is some place where you can parent in a vacuum.


So should every NG that has anything to do with children or parenting get
cross posted from asCPS?

LaVonne wrote
alternative forms of discipline


As in making child wash off pee with cold water
after discovering that happy warm guilt free showers
were causing the frequency of wetting at school
to INCREASE?
(Positive reinforcement of a negative behavior)?


Greg can't help but practice his lies.

He forced the little girl to take COLD SHOWERS... unhappy cold guilt-ridden
showers.

sole purpose to rant


Whatever you say herr Doktor!


YOU, Greg, are the "Doktor."

What qualifications do you have to determine that cold showers are the
appropriate punishment for someone else's little girl wetting their pants?

Especially when YOU could be the reason she's wetting her pants to begin
with!

What if a psychologist determined that all the little girl needed to stop
wetting her pants was for you to get out of her life and out of her home?

Did you allow her to see a psych for a professional opinion???

Those who object most strenuously to posts


Neal was talking about you, LaVonne!

Neal (continued)
in the newsgroup about CPS are those who tend
to advocate or play apologist for those agencies
and do not wish the general public to know the
truth about these agencies.


Yep, that's LaVonne!

snip

Fern does not post EVERYTHING on both newsgroups, and
I suspect that when people cross post things it is
often out of excitement or outrage and often perhaps
not because spanking is involved.

As Neal pointed out, you seem to want to conceal the
truth about child abuse agencies and how they actually
work.

Recently you demanded proof of me for something that
was WELL KNOWN, that every state CPS agency had
failed Federal Audits for compliance with regulations.


Greg, how many times do you ask questions whose answers are already included
in the very post that you're responding to?

It is crucial to understanding the capricious willy
nilly behavior of CPS and therefore the political
environment in which a spanking or non-spanking parent
may be constrained. Crucial to SOCIAL CONTEXT.

Or do you wish to assert that SOCIAL CONTEXT has
nothing to do with spanking or not spanking?

If you wish to usurp parents rights to choose
whether or not to spank, which IS clearly your goal,
understanding CPS in the real world as opposed
to intent or theory seems germain.

You lobby for anti-spanking laws while you naively
state that they would not be used for child removals.
Any such law would most definately be automatically
and broadly be used to remove children to Foster
Homes where the kids are 10 TIMES more likely to be
sexually abused, and twice as likely to DIE.

How do you honestly dare pretend that real world
reports about how the Child Protection Industry
functions are not totally germain to the
anti-spanking laws you advocate?

While the Hatch act may not stop you a state
paid employee from such lobbying, that lobbying
on your part ETHICALLY justifies the presentation
of real world information about how CPS works,
or more precisely, how CPS would MISUSE the sort
of law you are lobbying for.

In Summary:
You dragged the camels nose into the tent
( with spanking == beating )
( and proposing new child abuse law! )
( ignorance of crucial info on failed Audits )
( naive theory FAR from actual results. )
( Your expression that it's not political
further proves how naive you are. )
Who appointed you to keep pushing your idea
of net etiquette? That's bad form.


And if any one knows about bad form, it's Greg.

He's the king of it.

Dan


  #5  
Old October 31st 03, 10:40 AM
Greg Hanson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Is CPS on topic for this NG? From FAQ's

LaVonne wrote
alternative forms of discipline


As in making child wash off pee with cold water
after discovering that happy warm guilt free showers
were causing the frequency of wetting at school
to INCREASE?
(Positive reinforcement of a negative behavior)?


Greg can't help but practice his lies.
He forced the little girl to take COLD SHOWERS...
unhappy cold guilt-ridden showers.


What LIE?
What you said and what I said are not mutually exclusive.

What are you going to do, remove all the Amish kids too?
Or will CPS run around making sure that everybody has
a water heater that holds a full 200 gallons so the
hot water doesn't run out? A fast cold shower to
wash off pee was enough to make her not want to
make it a daily event any more.

YOU, Greg, are the "Doktor."

Nope, I hold no PhD and never pretended I did. Did I LaVonne?

What qualifications do you have to determine that
cold showers are the appropriate punishment for
someone else's little girl wetting their pants?


OK, so as usual, in hindsight things could have been
done better. You know what "In Loco Parentis" means, Dan?
You overlooked the rest of the story, taking it out
of context. Tisky Tisky Dan. The showers didn't start
out cold, but the kid was liking them so much that
it worked as a positive reinforcement of a bad behavior.
Not ALL guilt is a bad thing, Dan.
Too much or too little guilt can be problematic.


Especially when YOU could be the reason she's
wetting her pants to begin with!


Then why would she do it at school, and why
would she honestly volunteer that she knew she
had to go, but didn't want to miss out on the
big fun in class?

Kids DO this, Dan.
This is not even a neurological problem.

What if a psychologist determined that all the
little girl needed to stop wetting her pants
was for you to get out of her life and out
of her home?


Then they would be wrong, because it wasn't
even a neurological problem. It was a kid
conciously holding it too long, and then
losing at the attempt. Perhaps laughing too hard.

Did you allow her to see a psych for a
professional opinion???


On what, holding their pee?

Those who object most strenuously to posts


Neal was talking about you, LaVonne!


You too, Dan! But you knew that.

Recently you demanded proof of me for something that
was WELL KNOWN, that every state CPS agency had
failed Federal Audits for compliance with regulations.


Greg, how many times do you ask questions whose
answers are already included in the very post
that you're responding to?


Well, I'm not the PhD claiming expertise yet
ignorant of crucial and BASIC facts about the
industry or political situation being discussed.

Sure, I screw up. I admit I do.
You seem to have some sort of disorder when
comes to that. You see such admissions as
failings and weakness. I do not.
I see them as honesty about human failings.

You take human failings and you turn them
into something like a political tirade.
You seem to cling to an illusion of your
own perfection and superiority through my
human failings. You seem obsessed with that.
For a guy with such a big EGO, that's
pretty small.

Repeated attempts to shame me, for example.
1st and 2nd time maybe, but the 10th or
30th time your are simply an abusive jackass.
I think you are an emotional cripple.

With all of your attempts to hurt me I got
stronger and more resolute. A long time ago
you were hurting yourself more than me, and
realized that way too late. Lately you
chatter chimp like one liners.

Dan, Just like your alter ego Kane,
you are your own worst enemy.
 




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